Roadfly.com         Roadfly Home | Features | Car Review Videos | Car Reviews | Cars For Sale | Used Car Parts Classifieds | Forum | Car Review Archives | Forum Archives Index



PDA



FaastM5
09-15-2005, 11:07 PM
I am a former E46 SMG M3 owner and have a new E60 M5 arriving next month as one of the first cars delivered to the USA. I put the deposit down for this car when I purchased my M3 in 2002, so it has been a looooong wait.

On some other message boards (m5board.com) there is a big discussion about how SMG is a glorified automatic and it takes the enjoyment/challenge out of the car, and you are better off waiting for the 7spd manual in about 18mos. My question for you guys is what percentage of E46 M3's are sold with SMG? I'm assuming more are sold with SMG than without.

I still find it unbelievable that so many people argue against the merits of SMG without ever having driven a car with SMG. Thanks.

StoneWalk
09-15-2005, 11:15 PM
StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

mike_m3
09-15-2005, 11:29 PM
<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

yiiikes
09-15-2005, 11:37 PM
I don't have any hard numbers, but as a casual observation I have not seen an M3 without SMG for sale at my local dealer in the last 2 years.

corra
09-15-2005, 11:38 PM

dkreidel
09-15-2005, 11:55 PM
and ordered my 2005 M3 cab the way God intended - with a clutch pedal.

dk

nkochary
09-16-2005, 12:24 AM
-----------------------------------------------------
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/nkochary/sig2.jpg">

Ennui
09-16-2005, 12:26 AM

motex
09-16-2005, 12:31 AM
http://forums1.roadfly.org/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=50584
2002 Imola Red SMGII Coupe/
Tan leather / COSTA RICA

2003M3TopDown
09-16-2005, 12:52 AM
'03 M3 Cab
Steel Gray/Black leather, SMG, Xenons, HK, 18" (245/275), heated seats, lumbar, PDC, hardwired passport 8500, iTOP

corra
09-16-2005, 01:05 AM
to BMW

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 01:24 AM
I am endlessly amused by the "critics" of SMG who have no idea how to drive one...

StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

alexaqui
09-16-2005, 01:27 AM
Sold my 02 SMG for an 05 6spd and have been extremely happy with my choice. SMG rocks at the track, but it sucks at everything else. I like the challenge of shifting properly everywhere (track, on the road, etc). I enjoy my 05 a lot more than I did my 02, which I attribute to the driver involvement of switching gears oneself.

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 01:33 AM
StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 01:39 AM
but, if, would, should, could, then, maybe..... ah fart.
<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

steve.k
09-16-2005, 01:41 AM
of refinment. I honestly like the raw feelin of it... but spoiled americans dont.

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 01:45 AM
SMG is a great gearbox. It is a lousy automatic, and anyone buying as one will be disappointed.

Wanting it so that you can have both hands on the wheel as you dive into turn 6 on your favorite track, rev matching a downshift into 2nd gear as you're hard on the brakes? That's a great reason to love it.

Wanting it for everyday driving - it's a mixed blessing. Good in stop and go. Great when driven hard. Yes, honestly less involving than a traditional clutch and stick at times, and yes once in a while (especially without practice) out of sync with what the driver intended.

But people who scream it's "just another automatic" have no clues, and rarely have driven an SMG.

Others have had genuine problems, which is what a warranty is for regardless of which subsystem is failing.

And a few just like a stick better. I defend them, and at the same time admonish that not everyone has the same taste.

SMG is a great gearbox. So is the stick, especially with an uprated shifter ala autosolutions. Pick the one which will make _you_ happy.

StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 01:53 AM
well it is better for drinking coffee too........

Since we've done this before ad nauseam suffice it to say that there is satisfaction to making the up/down shift manually going into that great corner that makes it so much better than any computer's rev match ever can, even if in the final equation it may be 1/100 of a second slower.<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 02:01 AM
And yes, we've beaten the issue to death.

But SMG is perfectly capable of shifting up and down with great precision under the right pilot inputs.

I will also agree that you can configure and/or drive the SMG into complete disfunction without much difficulty. And you certainly can stall out that stick of yours...

$0.02

StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

patton03m3
09-16-2005, 02:13 AM
...but I already know I'll like the stick more for the driving I do. SMG was fun once in a while, but we disagreed too many times in too many tight situations. If a mistake happens I want it to be mine.

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 02:25 AM
it's not about confusing SMG or stalling a stick - its about doing something yourself and the satisfaction of it vs. having a computer do it for you.

Either way - for our fellow board readers: Please use the search function as this horse has been so thoroughly beaten to death for the last few years that anything that may be said this morning has likely already been posted 1000 times.<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

biodan
09-16-2005, 05:47 AM
After all, most times i'd rather navigate a file system from a commmand line too. I enjoy the satisfaction of doing it myself than having some bloated user interface.

Emacs is for sissies !

biodan
09-16-2005, 05:50 AM
I enjoy my cars/computers a lot more, which I attribute to the driver/geek involvement of switching gears/filesystems/tasks/ oneself.

:-)

YoYoPedro
09-16-2005, 08:48 AM
with the back end of a 645...
Pedro

MPA33ION
09-16-2005, 08:52 AM
'02 TiAg M3 Coupe...Premium..Bi-Xenon..SMG II...Matte Chrome Trim...Eisenmann 83mm Race..19" SSR Satin Gt3's

Bcar
09-16-2005, 09:05 AM
Its faster... :) he he he... At least in a straight line!
track, depends on the driver... A pro would/could be just as fast with a stick, anything shy of that and the SMG just lets you think about one less thing.

Bcar
09-16-2005, 09:06 AM
maybe not a critic, but I'll stick with my stick.

RonCT
09-16-2005, 09:19 AM
While others stick it out with SMG and regret the decision. Some are vocal about it, while others are silently stewing because they feel they can't tell anyone they made a mistake. Yet others buy it and love it. Many avoid it altogether because of the reported issues with it and concerns about out-of-warranty and resale.

BMW is pushing the technology and almost had there way to mandate SMG in the new M5. I thought it was laughable that they "blamed" the US market for taking a step back. Boo hoo hoo, the Americans really want a manual M5 so instead of listening to their crying, we at BMW are going to produce a manual M5. I think the real situation is that there are those who are tired of technology taking over everything and want to shift for themselves, while there are others who love the new SMG world.

Me, I enjoy making the shifts for myself. There's nothing like the pure satisfaction of nailing perfect heel/toe downshifts on the track. It's all part of the reason I go there. One might say that I could lap faster with SMG, but that's not the reason I go to the track.

Bottom line - to each his own...

LandShark1
09-16-2005, 09:37 AM
<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~00landshark00/sig/sig.jpg">

Previous >> 89' M3 || 90' M3 || 95' M3 || 98' M Roadster || current ride >> 03' M3 || 06-07' M3....again....? ;)

Happiness <b>IS NOT</b> around the corner!!
Happiness <b>IS</b> the corner!!

of an SMG car? - Smoltz
09-16-2005, 09:51 AM

patton03m3
09-16-2005, 10:01 AM

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 10:03 AM
oh, whoops, you already have one... much too easy of a set up dan, and much too poor an analogy to start with...<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

yiiikes
09-16-2005, 11:10 AM
I always do my own shifting, I just don't have to bother with a clutch pedal.

yiiikes
09-16-2005, 11:10 AM

orooj
09-16-2005, 11:50 AM
From a current SMG owner, I am looking to go back to stick. SMG is great at times, when you're really on it, but still lose some of the sense of "sport" about it. Looking forward to being able to row again...

ProV1
09-16-2005, 12:12 PM
if M3 had manual tranny as good as the one in Honda S2000, i'd take the manual in 0.00001 nanosecond. the fact is, the manual in the M3 sux, notchy, vague, long, and imprecise. therefore i prefer SMG in the M3.

Jacy
09-16-2005, 12:28 PM

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 12:45 PM
"It's much more involving" to control spark advance and mixture manually. Any car made after about 1920 is for wimps. :)

StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

Lino
09-16-2005, 12:49 PM
--
04 M3 Carbon Black / Cinnamon

SMG
NAV
ALUM TRIM
PWR SEATS
XENON's
19's

YoYoPedro
09-16-2005, 12:59 PM
But I'd probably like a stick, too, just not as much. 8-tracks and cassettes make music, they just aren't quite at the level of CD's or iPods. But some love the retro feel/sound of them. There's nothing like the feel and sound of dual quads when the secondaries open up, but I prefer the 6 individual drive-by-wire EFI throttles on my M3. There are those who swear ABS is for amateurs, and real men learn proper threshold breaking techniques (which I have, BTW), but I'm all over the technology of ABS as an effective tool in slowing down my car. There's no right or wrong choice, just depends if you like air conditioning or prefer to leave the door of the cave open to cool it down.

;-)
Pedro

amaist
09-16-2005, 01:09 PM

DStampfer
09-16-2005, 01:24 PM
Current M3 SMGII is limited by design. It is the same transmission as the 6sp stick with computerized hydraulic actuation. Therefore inherent limitations and obvious room for improvement. SMGIII in the M5 was designed from the ground up as SMG only. From what I've read, even the hardcore automotive jounalists who have previously criticized SMGII performance, have been converts to SMG lovers after driving the E60 M5. Futhermore, the "manual" offered in the future on the E60 M5 is likely to be 6 rather than 7 gears. I suspect that a head-to-head comparison will result in the SMGIII equiped model being equivalent or superior in nearly all performance categories. That said, I do think that a "manual" should be offered to satisfy the die-hard manual fans and I'm sympathetic to their driving involvement issues. Currently, I drive a "manual" E46 M3, but am interested in switching to SMG on my next car.

xm909
09-16-2005, 01:27 PM
your boat.....Interestingly enough, Porsche does NOT offer SMG (though the automatics are for the....oh whatever)

2002M3Drew
09-16-2005, 01:37 PM
http://forums1.roadfly.com/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=34873

MCain
09-16-2005, 01:38 PM

MCain
09-16-2005, 01:46 PM
similar to SMG (more like the Audi system I think) this year on the turbo.

YoYoPedro
09-16-2005, 01:51 PM
Pedro

xm909
09-16-2005, 02:04 PM
sequential manual gearbox system....should have guessed that they would use a system based on the Audi DSG....heard the DSG does great smooth upshifts, but downshifts are a little different from the BMW SMG system (I think you literally have to engage each gear as you downshift vs. BMW SMG, you can go from 5th to 3rd without engaging 4th gear like a traditional manual)

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 02:08 PM
DSG is nifty in that it can engage two gears at the same time, and slip directly from one to the next without an interruption in power. That makes it "smoother" and probabaly a better automatic than SMG, since it is the interruption in power that make SMG a lousy automatic.

Flipside on DSG is that it has odd numbered gears on one shaft, even numbered on the other, and so it can _only_ do it's smooth shifts sequentially between neighboring gears. A 4->2 downshift would have to be done as 4->3 followed by 3->2, or alternatively it would have to do 4->2 by punting and going clutch-out/clutch-in on the single even numbered shaft (somewhat like what SMG does on all gear changes).

StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

2002M3Drew
09-16-2005, 02:16 PM
SMG takes a part of the driving experience, one that normally requires a lot of seat time to master, and automates it. For good or bad.

I, like most that track on an ameteur level, do DE's. I'm not winning or losing...I'm driving and learning. Each time out, I work on my mechanics...my brake points, my brake effort, my shift points, my pedal work, heal-and-toe downshifting, my line, my eyes, etc etc etc.

The mechanics of driving are the enjoyment. If I take a component of driving away, I have less to enjoy.

For those that bring traction control, ABS, power steering into the SMG discussion (i.e., would you do without them, too?), the answer is yes. My car has none of those systems, either. I can feel what is underneath each wheel, the feedback is so sharp. I can sense the very point of brake lockup and modulate. My shifting and pedal work has gone from downright sloppy to very precise...it HAD to become precise, or I wasn't going to be able to track this car. As a learning tool, a car that makes you drive is a far better school.

Competition is not about enjoyment...it's about winning. For that purpose I say, if technology is faster, then you use it. For driving on public roads or for enjoyment on the track, however, make mine manual...always.


http://forums1.roadfly.com/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=34873

xm909
09-16-2005, 02:18 PM
seem to me that it would slow you down at the track vs. BMW's SMG.....I guess for street use, the DSG would be a better option and definitely probably a better than an automatic Porsche.

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 02:21 PM
So I can't comment other than on the inherent design. Since upshifts tend to be single gear, they'd be smooth and pretty much instant on DSG, which would be good. Downshifts of single gears would be the same, which is probably how you'd wind up driving it. Multi-gear changes have to be done as either two steps or one slow step, so there you're maybe at a slight disadvantage (although DSG could in theory do it about as good as SMG on a single shaft, although I don't think they do so).

StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 03:09 PM
no point in all that "driving" work to get the "experience" of the track - so much better as the passenger - your car already basically shifts for you so why not have someone steer and brake for you as well?

since you're back to making obtuse analogies keep in mind that they tend to work equally well, or poorly, in both directions.
<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

TopazM3
09-16-2005, 03:10 PM

RonCT
09-16-2005, 03:23 PM
and I'm a manual kind of guy. But in the Audi, which is a car my wife might also drive, the DSG was really great.

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 03:34 PM
plus track and autox time....<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 03:36 PM
miss my p-car for those very reasons.....<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

garcia00
09-16-2005, 03:44 PM

kevin
09-16-2005, 03:47 PM

teamgomez
09-16-2005, 04:33 PM
Having spent the majority of my track time in a manual that turns 1:25's at WSIR, I can't tell you how much I appreciate what the SMG brings to table and how much fun I think I would have in a field full of them.

I believe that the newer technology cars will make a better driver out of the 'average' guy, but they'll in no way be able to take that car to 10/10ths until they've mastered all the basics that Drew spoke to.

While I savor the spins in the 911- they are for much different reasons than what gets me fired up to paddle shift my way around town. So many different driving modes, so many different personalities; it is like a new date each time I get in (OK, still in honeymoon phase after 4 months...).


http://members.roadfly.com/teamgomez/m3911.jpg~John

http://forums1.roadfly.org/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=63479

2004 SMG M3- Zaino sponge, ZERO water spots, and creates more driving smiles than I ever imagined possible :)
1980 911 Weissach
Retired: 1998 Z3, 1998 528i

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 05:05 PM
I shift my car just fine - I happen to do it with an actuator that interacts with a computer instead of pushing a lever to perform the same operation physically, much like you press down on your throttle pedal which tells a computer to do various things to the engine in order to produce thrust.

You seem to have no problem with the throttle pedal being a computer input instead of a physical mechanical lever - why do you have a problem with the shift operation similarly being a computer input instead of a mechanical lever?

And we again ask - have you disabled your ABS? If you let a computer run your brakes, surely you may as well just be a passenger.... right?


StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

txse46m3
09-16-2005, 05:09 PM
<p align="center"><a href="http://www.fmjmotorsports.com">
<img border="0" src="http://www.fmjmotorsports.com/fmj_com_crop.jpg"></a></p>


FMJMotorsports.com (http://www.fmjmotorsports.com)

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 05:51 PM
why don't we just run around the track in bare feet?!

Drew put it very well above: Some people want to be involved in the experience some want to be taken for a ride. Involvement makes better drivers, period.

A primary reason for why this will likely be my last M3 is that it is indeed a bloated, over stuffed computer with wheels, even when equipped with a proper manual. It's a shame that those of us that want the car to do this that and the other for us dictate what car makers release - then again it is the lowest common denominator....
The little non-babysat action the driver has left is being further and further eroded - look at the SMG system in the new M5, it is an automatic even if it does not have a torque converter.

That which is a millisecond faster in F1 is not what many are after - this is hardly the end all of track cars to start with.

Call me a control freak but shifting is a skill and getting it right among the many other things going on around the track is a plus and not a detriment to enjoying the car. Like I said above I do miss my p-car(s) - no babysitting features, light weight and awesome feel - all our pigs need is an automatic to make them that much less enjoyable to drive. If I'm going to get stupid buttons to shift gears I might as well get an AMG - quick shifts plus the lazy_*** benefits of a real slush box to boot.
<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

StoneWalk
09-16-2005, 05:59 PM
The part I get upset about is when you demand that everyone feel the same way you do - you run around saying that people who drive SMG might as well be passengers, when in fact driving an SMG well takes some skill (which is why some novice SMG pilots think the gearbox sucks).

I know lots of people like the more elemental experience of the stick and clutch. I'm happy for them. It's a good gearbox, especially if you put a short-shift kit on it.

I start making fun of them when they begin claiming that SMG somehow is impure, while they run around using their ABS brakes, drive-by-wire throttle, DME-managed engine and dozens of other systems that for some reason are "ok" - it's just this one SMG gearbox that they have to persecute people for enjoying.

The stick is great. So is the SMG. We get access to both, which is wonderful so that everyone can be happy and we don't all have to feel the same about what makes for a good driving experience. I'm sorry that you feel the need to not only enjoy your stick, but make fun of those who happen to like the equally good SMG.


StoneWalk, Santa Barbara California

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 06:13 PM
never said I wasn't - i just don't think it does anything to make one a better driver and it takes away from the experience of driving the car...

if you get the chance take a car without any of the babysitting crap in it, with a proper stick around the track and see if its as much fun as pushing buttons and activating computers - if you still think that a lap in something without the save me from myself crap and buttons on the steering wheel is less fun, less involving and teaches you less about driving then I'll have nothing further to say.<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

teamgomez
09-16-2005, 06:16 PM
I'm not so sure there's so many 'silently stewing'...

The only reason I didn't buy an M5 was b/c it didn't have SMG. I guess the Modena poisoned me...that was the first 'paddle shifter' I drove and was ruined after that. Yeah- tracking the 915 tranny in a 911 is fun...but if it was so efficient/rewarding, would Schumi give up his formula ride to go battle it out w/ a 6 speed?~John

http://forums1.roadfly.org/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=63479

2004 SMG M3- Zaino sponge, ZERO water spots, and creates more driving smiles than I ever imagined possible :)
1980 911 Weissach
Retired: 1998 Z3, 1998 528i

CBlkM3
09-16-2005, 10:31 PM
... I agree with you: I don't understand why some, like our friend here, have to demean SMG and those that enjoy driving them. I don't understand why they insist "it's not the REAL driving experience", or "you can't be a GOOD driver with one of them new-fangled things". Even when they are trying to be magnanimous, their derision still shines through...

To all you "SMG is impure" theologists: I have an SMG M3, and I have 2 5-speed P-cars as well, including a non-ABS, no-power anything, air-cooled side-shifter. I like them all for different reasons. My point is you don't have to like SMG, you don't have to buy SMG, you don't have to drive SMG, AND you don't have to criticize or denegrate it either. Unless you have something constructive to say, "It's not for me, thanks" would be a far more mature response... or "I don't dig it, yo", for you especially groovy mutha-fuckas...

mike_m3
09-16-2005, 10:51 PM
since I did not start it - I just said that many who have driven it still do not like - the sh!t started flying there after.... If you follow this and the hundered other threads on this rather sad subject you'll notice that its the automatic crowd here that has a rather thin skin - not the other way around.<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

flaubert7
09-17-2005, 01:53 PM
BMW can fix a broken six-speed stick transmission in a timely manner.
Anecdotal instances of not being able to fix broken SMG.

I've been rowing through the gears since my '65 Stingray, and I don't track my M3, so SMG would be difficult for me to even to consider.

Obviously, the great majority of SMG owners love it.

My $0.02


01 Alpine/Cinnamon 6 spd manual
Bi-Xenons, Nav, h/k, moonroof
adj/heated/memory seats, painted front reflectors
Borla, 19" SSR GT3s

armychief
09-17-2005, 06:30 PM
<a href="http://www.m3resource.com/"><img src="http://www.m3resource.com/images/armychief2.jpg" width="373" height="249" border="0"></a>

flaubert7
09-17-2005, 09:48 PM
01 Alpine/Cinnamon 6 spd manual
Bi-Xenons, Nav, h/k, moonroof
adj/heated/memory seats, painted front reflectors
Borla, 19" SSR GT3s

hdclown
09-17-2005, 10:26 PM
So far, I prefer SMG. But, that could be because my M5 is the first stick car I've ever driven, and I'm still learning how to drive it a little bit each day. Maybe after a year of driving the M5, I may change my tune, but so far, there isn't much I get more out of the M5 except for a left foot work out.

I don't track or auto-x my cars, I commute to work and drive them on the weekends, sometimes do rally's with the local club, that's about it. So for my driving, the SMG just makes a lot of sense. It will always be better at clutch control and shifting speed then I ever could be.

When I drove my M3, I hardly EVER used the steering wheel paddles, always the stick in the center console. There is more satisfaction in actually rowing through 6 gears instead of pushing up and pull back, but I find absolutely no satisfaction in moving a clutch pedal in and out dozens of times.

I'd personally love to have a car with an SMG gearbox but an actual shifter layout like a 6 speed. I see no reason as to why they couldn't do it.. it would be a damn cool mod for an SMG car anyway.

drove SMG before manual Rockets Redglare
09-18-2005, 07:33 AM
Typically, all the negative comments about SMG come from oldsters like me who grew up driving stick (personally I love SMG as it's much more practical than stick for city driving, and much more engaging/efficient than auto), and are probably more due to the reviewer's bias towards what they're familiar with instead of any inherent flaws with SMG. Now that these sequential boxes are becoming more common, there must be youngsters out there who are driving sequential out of the gate, it would be interesting to hear their opinion of which type of transmission they prefer and why.

StMedina
09-18-2005, 01:33 PM
1 second faster in their WorldChallenge cars with SMG....





http://forums1.roadfly.com/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=19026

StMedina
09-18-2005, 01:34 PM
has nothing to do with it....





http://forums1.roadfly.com/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=19026

StMedina
09-18-2005, 01:35 PM
the need that there is something to prove as well...

both are idiots;.



http://forums1.roadfly.com/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=19026

ProV1
09-18-2005, 01:54 PM

mike_m3
09-18-2005, 03:44 PM
<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

mike_m3
09-18-2005, 03:46 PM
<a href="http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e46m3/7032191-1.html">here</a><br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

mike_m3
09-18-2005, 03:48 PM
<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

StMedina
09-18-2005, 06:34 PM
didn't think you meant at 5th and Main....lol.


http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e46m3/7027083-1.html



http://forums1.roadfly.com/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=19026

StMedina
09-18-2005, 06:36 PM
http://forums1.roadfly.com/preferences/showsigimage.php?img=19026

mike_m3
09-18-2005, 07:08 PM
reread what I wrote... you're starting to read a lot like stone - but to agree with you, I'm pretty bored with this dead horse as well, too bad you had to resurrect it earlier...<br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://one-step.com/webpics/m3v5.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To BMWM3.org!"></a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.venganza.org/">WWFSMD?</a>

flaubert7
09-18-2005, 07:47 PM
01 Alpine/Cinnamon 6 spd manual
Bi-Xenons, Nav, h/k, moonroof
adj/heated/memory seats, painted front reflectors
Borla, 19" SSR GT3s

flaubert7
09-18-2005, 07:53 PM
01 Alpine/Cinnamon 6 spd manual
Bi-Xenons, Nav, h/k, moonroof
adj/heated/memory seats, painted front reflectors
Borla, 19" SSR GT3s

flaubert7
09-18-2005, 07:57 PM
dead or alive? (http://www.deadoraliveinfo.com/dead.nsf/hnames-nf/Hawking+Stephen)01 Alpine/Cinnamon 6 spd manual
Bi-Xenons, Nav, h/k, moonroof
adj/heated/memory seats, painted front reflectors
Borla, 19" SSR GT3s

smurfm3
09-18-2005, 08:15 PM
which is true... but still not as engaging as a manual :P


Roadfly Home | Car Reviews | Forum Archives Index