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06-29-2006, 06:40 PM
M Coupe comparison with the CaymanS was such a scam. In the two reviews I read the M Coupoe's munbers were right there with the Cayman S and all the subjective evaluations went to the Porsche. I think their is a little bias going on here especially since the Cayman S shoudl ahve been really knocked for being 20% more expensive than the M Coupe!

06-29-2006, 08:31 PM
I agree, but first learn to check your spelling, and second, support your point with more facts, because your argument is pretty weak.

06-29-2006, 10:03 PM
& in a dead heat, the subjective stuff starts scoring points.

06-30-2006, 05:50 AM
they had gone with the original plan reported in Automobile, which included use of lightweight body parts and the 370HP M3CSL engine, 19 inch wheels and pricier tires, The M Coupe would have won easily.

Not just the carbon fibre parts but the engineering that it takes, for example, to safely install a cf roof or door panels.

However, it would have cost too much - and that engine is not certified for USA. More money.

For a market spot 10K less and the chance of better sales, my guess is the "suits" won out and corners were cut in the Coupe budget.
It is probably a good business decision for BMW to be almost as good as Cayman at 10K less.

I sat in the Cayman. Could not fit. Not even close.

06-30-2006, 02:49 PM
iDunno, I personally find the Cayman S vs. 911 comparo's more enlightening.

Re: Z4 ///M Coupe vs. Cayman S, unless there's a significant focus on price-dependency, the outcomes are going to be fairly predictable, IME. And even those are going to be mitigated by BMW NA's propensity to staff their press fleet with loaded-up models.

Anyway, what I found entertaining in <i>Car and Driver</i>'s & <i>Motor Trend</i>'s reviews were their design comments.

<i>MT</i>: "As a coupe, the Z4 is rakish and masculine, the best interpretation yet of Chris Bangle's controversial "flame surfacing" design theme. Its proportions recall everything from the Jaguar E-Type coupe to classic Delages, Talbot-Lagos, and the Bentley Speed-Six coupe."

<i>C/D</i>: "The '06 M coupe is a striking and handsome design when you see it in person. Admittedly, there is a great deal of excited styling, flame surfacing, and what-not crammed into its diminutive 161.9 inches, but all the discordant lines somehow gel together to give off a pleasant vibe that suggests baby Astom Martin. That might be a stretch, but we can all agree that this M coupe's exterior will turn on a larger swath of the populace than the previous M coupe did. When parked next to the Porsche, the Z4 M consistently drew more attention and praise."

Bangle could've generally predicted the change in tune. Um, I think he actually did... <font color= white>
.</font color>

<img src=>

07-02-2006, 03:39 PM
...I see a CaymanS pass me on the track.

07-03-2006, 05:25 PM
My neighbor and I have raced many times. He has lots of Porsches, one of which is the new Cayman S. He loses evertime on the track. We switched cars and he beat me in the M. He says he wants to sell his Cayman S and get an M now. I don't know if he will but just the fact that the guy has more than 3 million in cars in his stable, and he thinks the M is better says something. I personally hated the Porsche when I drove it on the track. No fun at all and it is butt ugly!

07-04-2006, 09:06 AM
I've yet to read an article yet that rates the M coupe over the Cayman S. What's wrong with the subjective ratings? The Cayman S is one of the greatest sportscars ever made, It's just grossly overpriced.
A realistic rematch would be an M coupe with Michelin PS 2's against a Cayman( ) without PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management). They'd cost the same and the Z4 M Coupe would probably win because of the power advantage.

07-04-2006, 05:51 PM
could have made a superior product. However, I'd rather invest the 10K somewhere else and enjoy my M coupe the way it is (once the fuel pump is fixed ).

07-05-2006, 11:58 AM
MZ4 while the Caymen was shod with PS2's?

I'd love to pick up a MZ4 off lease in a few years. Hopefully that will become a reality, but I'm not sure I like the seats. They push my shoulders way too far forward.

03' ZHP , Sapphire Black, Black Leather, Xenons , Moonroof

07-06-2006, 11:33 AM
If there weren't, you probably wouldn't own (or want to own) a BMW. There are many cars out there with more hp, more reliable, better creature comforts (such as better leather), better gas mileage, etc etc etc. But you drive (or want to drive) a BMW because you feel it's a better performer, better balanced, and so on. Are you telling me those aren't subjective?

You have to be honest, Porsche makes one helluva car. They're quick, they're nimble, they're incredibly well balanced, and to top it all, they're even one of the most reliable cars you can buy today. They also have the edge when it comes to which is most exotic to most people. A lot of people dream of owning a BMW, but an argument could be made that even more lust for a Porsche. Hell, look at almost any Roundel story comparing [insert BMW model of your choice] to some Porsche model, and 9 times out of 10, the Roundel writer even picks Porsche. Porsche must be doing something right, and something tells me the numbers don't tell the whole story.

And again I see someone makes the argument "yea, but the Cayman S and Boxster [S I presume] are $10k-$15k more!". Yea, Ok. So what? There's certainly no proof that if BMW priced the cars more they'd be any better. They cost enough as it is, and many are still full of problems. My point is that many of those that want to use the price difference as an advantage for Porsche would be singing a different tune if they had that $10-$15k extra laying around. Something tells me they'd be in a Porsche in a heartbeat. I know I would. And I love the new ///M Coupe. If I sell the 330 and get into one, instead of getting into a Porsche, am I going to feel like I had to accept less? Hell_no. All these cars are damn_fine rides.

Amazing how quick people forget to be thankful for what they have. BMW's aren't cheap, and most of us should be thankful that they're in the position they can afford one to begin with. But along comes a review (which btw, don't forget that's ONE person's opinion) and all of a sudden you feel cheated or wronged. Hilarious.

'05 330i ZHP in Imola

07-06-2006, 07:36 PM
I am not really one to worry about the "numbers" so much. But if you are going to, the cars really should be compared based upon "street" value. When you start with the MSRP price, you have to add $1000 to the BMW for the gas guzler tax. You can then take off $5-6k from the Porsche for the discounts almost every dealer is offering on 2006 models (my local dealer will take off $5500). You can already order 2007 Cayman S.

It will change in the future, but right now the Caymans are selling at a discount and you can buy them off the showroom floor.

07-08-2006, 01:54 PM

07-11-2006, 03:43 PM
"...but right now the Caymans are selling at a discount and you can buy them off the showroom floor" which says a lot about the demand.

07-25-2006, 05:00 PM
Porsche will always be better than bmw...

07-25-2006, 06:27 PM
much of anything in what you posted? Scott

07-26-2006, 02:29 AM
the road corse - by 1.5 to 2 seconds. that significant IMO..... "better" is often user defined. faster? cost less?

07-26-2006, 11:31 AM
Continental Sport Contacts right? Swap on equal tires and then'll still have a significant cost difference after upgrading the Coupes tires and I'm willing to bet the lap times will be almost identical if not swayed over in the M Coupe's favor.

The first thing I'm going to do when the car is being PDI's is have the Continentals peeled for a set of PS2's.

07-26-2006, 07:08 PM
My guess is that Cayman S has alot more than 295hp. Porsche did want the car to be understated (vs. 911). Their own website lists a 0-60 time much than the magazines.

07-27-2006, 09:04 AM
Maybe you are, I wouldn't know of course and if you say you are, I'll take your word for it. But the thing that constantly gets me are those that are worried about some other car being a few tenths of a second faster, or for no other reason than a reviewer likes some other car better, so they start pumping money into upgrades in an attempt to close the gap, yet many of these people haven't nor ever will actually drive their car on one. Maybe you're one of the few that's actually a regular at track events and can justify why certain upgrades need to be made. Since you say the first thing you're going to do is change tires, that suggests to me you're a serious track junkie. If you are, more power to you. I'm still working towards my next DE event myself, but serious tracking I'll probably never do.

'05 330i ZHP in Imola

07-27-2006, 10:35 AM
my issue with magazine comparisons are these are rarely unbiased and almost never on a level playing field. FWIW 10th's are not issues especially in a DE / open lapping environment but seconds are, especially where friction counts such as braking or turn in...I could car less about 1/4 mile times. My point is that BMW did not do the M Coupe any favors with the Continental Sports as the car really deserves a set of PS2's or the like. This will be just for street driving as I will order a second set of wheels with r compound tires for the track, most likely Toyo RA1's. I think the car with a stock setup, some track brake pads and R Comps will be a real blast!

07-27-2006, 12:39 PM
why I was asking. Soooooo many people seem to feel the need to add thousands of dollars of go fast parts, yet they'll never be able to appreciate what the upgrades did for them because they won't even see a track or autox. Almost refreshing to hear from someone that actually knows what a track looks like. Best of luck.

'05 330i ZHP in Imola

07-27-2006, 05:53 PM
overused phrase "upgrade the nut behind the wheel before you mod your car."

07-27-2006, 07:01 PM
of one to even upgrade things like wheels or other cosmetic type things, I can understand those that do because I've been there ten times over wasting (umm, investing) hundreds, probably thousands of dollars worth of chrome pieces, exhausts and seats to Harley's over the years. But I never really got involved in upgrading the engines. Took the MSF courses a few times too over the years, and I could appreciate that I already had enough power to kill myself.

I guess I just wish more people that owned cars that would already do 155 mph would take a few DE events before they felt the need to try and make the car go faster. Particularly with BMW's, I think that maybe the majority would soon realize they already have a car that's capable of far more than they have the talent to exploit.

'05 330i ZHP in Imola

07-28-2006, 02:38 AM
8 to 16 days a a year so track time is important to me 0- and YES , tires do make a big difference, so it would be interesting to see a test track with both cars on the same tires.

and yes - all the COnti's I have had really suck - did the P car run PS2's?

07-28-2006, 02:45 AM
track times? so what would it cost to equip the M coupe with good tires from the factory , another $30.oo or so?

07-28-2006, 05:56 AM
Having owned both a 996 C4 and later, a 996TT (x50, Ruf Exhaust), I can say that no matter how great the rags say the Cayman is over the Z4 M, I would never buy one because it still has that classic "Volkswagon" rear engine sound at and just off idle. Always hated that, and is one of the primary reasons for leaving the Porsche family. Gimme something else, anything else! btw, Z4 M COupe order placed 7-26-06 :c)

07-28-2006, 11:13 AM
are some British mag reviews coming out (Total BMW) that heavily favor the C Coupe. Here is a synopsys of his review of the Cayman vs M Coupe vs. Alpina Z4...interesting read:

I am hopefully allowed to express a few comments prior to the magazine being published, but I would urge you to buy a copy of Total BMW next month to read the full report and see all the hard work that our photographer Matt put into the article.

What can I say about the Cayman that hasn't already been covered in the press? I for one believe that both Cayman and Boxster are eulogised rather too much and the press should really respect the fact that people have different preferences, therefore you can never really say that one car is better than another (unless the gap between them is huge).

I have driven the Cayman before so knew to expect a more powerful engine than the Boxster S and yet a more stable chassis. Starting the Cayman up and it sounds like a ‘bag of bones’. Not very impressive at all. Accelerating off up the 2-mile straight at Bruntingthorpe and compared to the other cars in this test the Cayman has a very ‘soft’ throttle. What I mean by that is that when you are accelerating, you could move the throttle back and forth by a centimetre or so and it wouldn’t make much difference the progress of the car. The Z4M and Alpina by comparison are scalpel sharp and immediately far more alert.

As I continued accelerating the initial lethargy is overcome, the variocam engine picks up and ‘at last’ the Cayman starts to feel quick. At the same time the engine takes on a harder howl and surges towards the red line. Maybe surge is too strong a word for it, because in comparison it’s nothing like as strong as the Z4M.

I reached just over 150mph on the 2-mile straight before the Cayman began to wander quite alarmingly, but even so it didn’t seem to want to pull any more speed. Maybe I could have reached 155, but I would have run out of track If I asked for any more, and besides the acceleration had ceased long ago and it was merely winding up one click at a time. There was a strange ‘rocking’ and ‘floaty’ sensation when the Cayman reached this speed which didn’t encourage me to press on.

Braking for the first corner, the brakes felt good and turn in was positive and stable. It really is very easy to just lift off and kick the tail of the Cayman out, which at least is a possibility whereas the Boxster S is just too inert.

I ran a half dozen or so laps enjoying balancing it on the limit, but frustrated by how slow it seemed to accelerate.

Strengths: Good balance once turned in, nice steering, sounds nice at higher revs.

Weaknesses: lack of bottom end torque, sounds unrefined on start-up, felt unstable at higher speeds.

OK, so now into the Z4M Coupe. It’s best to leave SPORT off in the Z4M Coupe since it doesn’t need it (unlike in the M3). Initial acceleration feels more savage than the Cayman S and then pulls more strongly right through the gears. Along the same 2-mile straight, I reached an indicated 170 mph. Clearly it’s much quicker than the Cayman, but it also began to wander a bit at these speeds and left me backing off rather than keeping it nailed to reach a V-max. Nevertheless, a clear victory for the Z4M coupe in terms of acceleration and top speed.

Next it’s time to brake for the first corner and surprisingly the Z4M Coupe’s brakes are stronger than those on the Cayman. In fact you need to be sensitive with the right foot otherwise you brake too hard.

Turn-in is good, probably sharper and quicker than the Cayman but not quite as stable. The Cayman chassis feels more inert whereas the Z4M Coupe needs to be eased into the corner to avoid turn-in oversteer. Through the corner from the Apex there seemed very little to separate them, both cornered equally flat but the Z4M was more adjustable. This is where you need to ensure SPORT is switched off on the Z4M since it’s almost impossible to exit a corner smoothly with it switched on.

Over a series of laps I found it more difficult to get used to the eager turn-in of the Z4M Coupe, it really is very alert and slightly nervous in a way that the Cayman is not.

Funnily enough it’s the Cayman that feels the heavier car. It’s developed to be very safe and predictable, which it achieves very well, but it also feels like it is designed down to a price point and at no time is it allowed to tread on its big brother 911’s toes. It needs more power, it needs more edge to it, but at least the driver can control its attitude in a way that would be foreign to a Boxster owner.

We brought the Alpina along as a ‘control’ to hold both Z4M Coupe and Cayman S to account, and the findings were indeed interesting. Firstly the Alpina was probably the fastest car there, or on a par with the Z4M Coupe. Despite both Alpina and Cayman engines being the same size (3.4 litres) it was the Alpina that feels the stronger. There is loads of low-down torque in the Alpina and yet it revs just as fast as the Cayman, consequently the Porsche is soundly beaten by the boys from Alpina. Just for the record the Alpina also reached over 170mph along the 2-mile straight but actually felt the most stable at speed (with the roof down). Go figure. Everywhere else on the track the Alpina feels predictable, easy to drive and very quick.

All the testers who drove each car decided they would choose the Alpina over the Cayman S. But the winner of the test was predictably the Z4M Coupe, it’s just the most sporting of the three. Is stonkingly quick, steers very neatly and feels so very alive. We also unanimously agreed that the Z4M Coupe looked the best of the three and made the Cayman look very ‘feminine’ . The first time you see a Z4M Coupe driving towards you then you will understand. It looks much more ‘chunky’ and purposeful than the Cayman. It looks like a crouched cat ready to pounce and just doesn’t have a bad angle.

BMW have done a stunning job in developing a truly desirable £40k coupe and it drives exactly as it looks. There’s a place for the Cayman in the market, but it looked awkward and slightly pretentious sat next to the business-like Z4M Coupe. The age old question of which handles better, will be down to how you like to drive. Both feel excellent when driven at normal road speeds and I couldn’t separate them. Novice drivers will find the Cayman easier to drive, experienced drivers will enjoy driving both but I suspect that the Cayman’s charms will wane once familiarity sets in, whereas the Z4M Coupe will entertain long afterwards. The Z4M Coupe is edgy whilst the Cayman is more inert. You decide.

So in the end, the Z4M Coupe won this comparison. Now wasn’t that a surprise.

Read the article in next months Total BMW.

07-29-2006, 01:37 AM
Coupe - personally for the price the MCOupe is a better bargain. I like the looks better too - but I like the mid-engine design of the P car. Ithink BMW is too weak in that they design in too much understeer in thier current cars. but again I would like to see the two both tested on the same track tires. dont get nme wrong - I like the Mcoupe a lot - and would consider trading my M3 for one.

07-29-2006, 01:51 AM

07-30-2006, 05:46 PM
more objective between a BMW and a P- car - more so than a BMW magazine.

07-31-2006, 12:55 AM

07-31-2006, 03:53 AM
if thats what you mean - based on that theM-coupe should win- regardless of who they picked - the P-car is consitantly faster on the race track.

07-31-2006, 11:08 AM
You will know that there are more revenue sources than just advertising.

08-01-2006, 01:01 AM
The new M Coupe has much less understeer than the M3 in all its iterations. I just turned in my leased '03 M3 for the new Coupe. The Coupe is an unbelievably more satisfying, and predictable, car to drive vigorously.

08-01-2006, 11:09 PM
"behind the door"?

08-05-2006, 06:11 PM

08-06-2006, 10:32 PM
I wish EVERY owner who buys one at least take soem car control clinics and 2-5 DEs just to understand how to handle a car like this, with its short wheelbase and 330HP on tap, instead of learning those skills after they wrap it around a tree.

It's entirely likely that there'll be less MZ4s produced than Z8s.

08-08-2006, 04:30 PM
I've always been told that no matter what the end result, the company that paid for my 2 days, all expense trip to Seattle (and stayed at the W, by the way) NEED to come out smelling like roses in my reviews. Even if the product drives like crap, you must make it sound like interesting crap and NEVER cast "the hands that feed you" in a bad light. Just like you can't really bad-mouth any of the vendors that pays for this site, otherwise you get your @ss banned.

I mean, it could be that the Cayman IS better than the MZ4 coupe, but you will never know for certain unless you drive both for yourself. U.S. industry rags are never a subjective source of information.

08-11-2006, 06:25 PM
Your car is hideous and people laugh when you drive by. Face it.

08-11-2006, 11:41 PM
the MCoupe looks like it has a big...

take your pick
<a href=""><img src=""height="100"width="100" alt=""></a>

08-14-2006, 10:47 PM
Hiding behind the computer.

08-14-2006, 10:49 PM

08-15-2006, 12:01 PM

08-16-2006, 04:04 AM
then the Cayman. does the Euro m-coupe get better tires?

08-24-2006, 05:56 AM
I've read the comparisons and looked at the pics. I've seen both cars in real life now too. My conclusion: the Cayman doesn't have the looks, it is a wierd looking car with feminine touches, BUT it's a Porsche and you always have to give respect to a Porsche. I have driven 911's and they are exciting and well built cars, extremely solid. The M Coupe is more testosterone driven car and it seems from the reveiws that it's more fun to drive with more sliding around etc. It's also better looking in my opinion and that engine is a gem (I had a Z3 MCoupe so I know the engine - it really is great!). I wouldn't buy a Cayman, even if I disregard the price. I did order a M Coupe because I had such fun in my Z3 M Coupe and after seeing the car in real life I'm convinced I'm going to have a ball in this one too. It'll be rarer than the Cayman too!

08-26-2006, 11:57 PM
Wow talk about butt ugly. Looks like old Bud spends a lot of time on the sofa as well and needs to get a life. I like the Porsche as well but would not troll other message boards.

09-18-2006, 03:26 AM
at this price price point (US$ 70K for MC vs US$ 66K for SC).... M Coupe has a tough time winning fans (Personally, I love the MC engine and styling). Even if MC could find a way to handle as good as the mid-engine layout of the CS, they cannot compete with the "porsche" brand in the eyes of the comsumer. Which I agree has nothing to do with the quality of the car....

10-10-2006, 11:37 PM
This is my own comparo of M Coupe v. Cayman S.

I cut and pasted this from my post on Rennlist. I was tired and tried my best to write something coherent. I love my GT3, so here goes.

Well, I first need to be honest. I am an M guy. I have owned lots of M3's, from e30's to e36's to e46's.

All were very modded.

Now the GT3 was also slightly modded...ok, it had $35k worth of mods, but all tastefully done.

Ok, that being said, the M coupe is BMW's version of a 996 GT3....sort of...

Actually The M6 is priced and compared to the GT3 or a TT, but it is a big fat pig, fast, handles great, but has lots of heft and can be felt.

The M coupe is not as fast as the 996 GT3, does not handle as well, and the driving position is off from Porsche and every other BMW I have ever driven. You sit on the floor and have to see over the hood. It reminds me of a Vette in seating position. is THE most raw car from BMW since the e30 M3. It is great, sounds good, really moves and handles good out of the box.

The tires need to be changed to PS2's and the suspension needs just revised shocks, struts and springs. I would change out the mufflers, and remove the CDV and call it a day. It is that good, that's all it needs. Seems like a lot, but its not that much.

The M coupe has the 996 bumble bee rear end hop, I was surprised, but it felt controllable and predictable. In the right hands the M coupe would be a force to be reckoned with. The Cayman is easier to drive fast, but feels numb and there is no passion. The M coupe has passion.

Great feed back, the steering wheel blows the Cayman S away, the Cayman feels smoother, but feels like it does lack the power that it actually does. Even though the Cayman is lighter and should have almost the same power to weight ratio, You can feel the HP loss in the Cayman.

The handling in the Cayman S is not better, it is only different, if you know how to drive, then I believe that you will be able to drive the M coupe faster then the Cayman S.

The Cayman has better brakes, but all Porsches do. I will say this, the M coupes brakes are THE best from BMW that I have driven with the exception of the M5/M6, but they are no GT3 brakes.

Also price, the Cayman S is like $20k more then the M coupe. If you lease or purchase, the M coupe makes more sense. I am doing a 24 Month lease and the M coupe is costing me $1400 a month with 0 down. The Cayman was going to be $1350 for 36 months, it made no sense for me to be a badge snob and say I drive a Porsche.

So, let me make sense of all that.

M coupe:
Feed back.
Steering wheel.
Looks (subjective, but I LOVE it).
Low end torque.
Able to drive closer to the limits, if you can drive well.
Fits like a little glove.
Love the extended leather, its everywhere.

Brakes (they are fine, but not Porsche brakes)
Small car, feels smaller then Cayman. (not bad)
Feels a bit cheap, but with the extended leather, its a close tie.
Ergonomic go to Cayman. The nav is cheap looking.
Hard to see out the car, small rear view mirror, but smaller rear glass.
Tires suck, not the cars fault, but still have to mention it.
The ride height is very high for a sports car.
Clutch not as nice as Cayman.

Cayman S:
Brakes, nice
Suspension, nice and compliant, you feel what's going on and its firm, yet supple. Feels Porsche like.
Ergonomics. The Nav is great the Stereo is position perfect, interior feels like a $60k+ car.
Great Porsche service (I have had nightmares from my BMW dealer, never so with P car dealer)
Great clutch.

Engine feels soft, it feels like the Torque peeks low down and never really climbs.
The suspension is great, but is not razor sharp.
Steering wheel is skinny, and not that nice.
Price, its out of whack with what you get from other marques. Residuals are very low.
Did not like the shifter, felt vague and no where near as good as GT3 or M coupe.

Both cars fit me well with a Helmet. With or Without electric seats.

I can see why the M coupe lost to the Cayman S in comparsions.

The tires on the M coupe are terrible. The suspension on the Cayman S with PASM is great, and if the M coupe has revised suspension with different shocks, struts and springs the M coupe would have rocked.

Also the writers of those magazines are not the worlds best drivers, they can maybe drive 7/10's, if you drive the M coupe 8/10's stock to stock, no PASM, the M coupe would be the better car.

So in the right hands, with an expierenced driver the M coupe is the better choice. If you drive well, but have no race expierence and are timid at the extreme level in driving the Cayman S is without a doubt the way to go.

Let me put it this way, if you bring your helmet to the dealer to see if you fit in the car wearing it, go to the BMW dealer.

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