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Carlie Bentley
02-02-2000, 09:54 AM
I recently found a damaged M5 (1989)or (1990) I am not sure exactly. A lot of the parts I want are still intact. However there are stuctural problems preventing the car from being rebuilt. The interior and wheels trans and some other bits and pieces are in good shape.<p>I do wonder about the engine, from what I have seen the block has sustained a great deal of damage, the owner must have stradled a concrete curb at a high rate of speed. It is a 3.5 liter block of the M flavor. The question I have is if the top end of the engine can be transplanted onto a 3.3 or 3.0 block from an earlier car. I realize the timing chain would have to be changed which would require changin the crank which would probably lead to changing the block so I am left with the possibility of finding an empty 3.5 block and undamaged components and rebuilding the M engine then transplanting into my E12, or just buying the interior and other tid-bits. Any Ideas? Would the head + Fuel injection + engine management, from a 89 or 90 M5 fit on a 3.3 or 3.0 short block?<p>Thanks for any insight.

Wietse
02-02-2000, 11:18 AM
<i>: I recently found a damaged M5 (1989)or (1990) I am not sure exactly. A lot of the parts I want are still intact. However there are stuctural problems preventing the car from being rebuilt. The interior and wheels trans and some other bits and pieces are in good shape.<p>: I do wonder about the engine, from what I have seen the block has sustained a great deal of damage, the owner must have stradled a concrete curb at a high rate of speed. It is a 3.5 liter block of the M flavor. The question I have is if the top end of the engine can be transplanted onto a 3.3 or 3.0 block from an earlier car. I realize the timing chain would have to be changed which would require changin the crank which would probably lead to changing the block so I am left with the possibility of finding an empty 3.5 block and undamaged components and rebuilding the M engine then transplanting into my E12, or just buying the interior and other tid-bits. Any Ideas? Would the head + Fuel injection + engine management, from a 89 or 90 M5 fit on a 3.3 or 3.0 short block?<p>: Thanks for any insight.<p>I would suggest not trying to place the M head on a 3.0/3.3 block. Mixing and matching heads on blocks could a very expensive experiment. Even if you get it to work, you would end up with a head that was designed to flow air for a 3.5L at 7000 rpm on a 3.0 block. You will have a low to no torque engine and a tough time finding the right pistons. In addition you might have tough time getting engine intake plenum (sp?) to clear the brake booster.<p>If you really want the M engine, my suggestion: Take the entire engine w/all the accessories out of the original car and inspect the bottom end and buy it very cheap. Worst case you need a new crank/block, best case you need a new oil pump and sump. The BMW crank rides very high in the block so the crank might be OK, but if the car was run w/o oil, a rebuild in the cards.<p>M parts are very expensive and the dealer is typically the only ones that have them. I think a gasket kit is around $320 or so (yuck). I would look at building a 3.5-3.6L with a cam ,you can get 240hp pretty easily and have many more choices for parts.<p>Wietse<p></i>

Frank H.
02-02-2000, 04:41 PM
<i>: I recently found a damaged M5 (1989)or (1990) I am not sure exactly. A lot of the parts I want are still intact. However there are stuctural problems preventing the car from being rebuilt. The interior and wheels trans and some other bits and pieces are in good shape.<p>: I do wonder about the engine, from what I have seen the block has sustained a great deal of damage, the owner must have stradled a concrete curb at a high rate of speed. It is a 3.5 liter block of the M flavor. The question I have is if the top end of the engine can be transplanted onto a 3.3 or 3.0 block from an earlier car. I realize the timing chain would have to be changed which would require changin the crank which would probably lead to changing the block so I am left with the possibility of finding an empty 3.5 block and undamaged components and rebuilding the M engine then transplanting into my E12, or just buying the interior and other tid-bits. Any Ideas? Would the head + Fuel injection + engine management, from a 89 or 90 M5 fit on a 3.3 or 3.0 short block?<p>: Thanks for any insight.<p></i><p>Carlie,<p>I think the 88 M5 block and the early euro 3.5l blocks are the same (both basically M1 blocks). The 3.0/3.3 blocks are different --how? Maybe water passages, oil passages etc to make room for the 93.4mm bore. <p>If you decide to buy the wrecked car and findout the head won't fit your 3.3 --maybe I could find the head & front timing covers a nice home. :-)<p>Frank

Carlie Bentley
02-02-2000, 07:25 PM
I will of course keep you in mind Frank. I still want the interior to go in my 81. Black with Black M5 Interior, mmm Tasty.<br>I suspected as much since the block have the different designation, M30 and such.<br>Later<p><i>: : I recently found a damaged M5 (1989)or (1990) I am not sure exactly. A lot of the parts I want are still intact. However there are stuctural problems preventing the car from being rebuilt. The interior and wheels trans and some other bits and pieces are in good shape.<p>: : I do wonder about the engine, from what I have seen the block has sustained a great deal of damage, the owner must have stradled a concrete curb at a high rate of speed. It is a 3.5 liter block of the M flavor. The question I have is if the top end of the engine can be transplanted onto a 3.3 or 3.0 block from an earlier car. I realize the timing chain would have to be changed which would require changin the crank which would probably lead to changing the block so I am left with the possibility of finding an empty 3.5 block and undamaged components and rebuilding the M engine then transplanting into my E12, or just buying the interior and other tid-bits. Any Ideas? Would the head + Fuel injection + engine management, from a 89 or 90 M5 fit on a 3.3 or 3.0 short block?<p>: : Thanks for any insight.<p><br>: Carlie,<p>: I think the 88 M5 block and the early euro 3.5l blocks are the same (both basically M1 blocks). The 3.0/3.3 blocks are different --how? Maybe water passages, oil passages etc to make room for the 93.4mm bore. <p>: If you decide to buy the wrecked car and findout the head won't fit your 3.3 --maybe I could find the head & front timing covers a nice home. :-)<p>: Frank<p></i>

Carlie Bentley
02-02-2000, 07:27 PM
I have thought as much, from looking closer at the engine. Thanks for the input.<br>LAter<br><i>: : I recently found a damaged M5 (1989)or (1990) I am not sure exactly. A lot of the parts I want are still intact. However there are stuctural problems preventing the car from being rebuilt. The interior and wheels trans and some other bits and pieces are in good shape.<p>: : I do wonder about the engine, from what I have seen the block has sustained a great deal of damage, the owner must have stradled a concrete curb at a high rate of speed. It is a 3.5 liter block of the M flavor. The question I have is if the top end of the engine can be transplanted onto a 3.3 or 3.0 block from an earlier car. I realize the timing chain would have to be changed which would require changin the crank which would probably lead to changing the block so I am left with the possibility of finding an empty 3.5 block and undamaged components and rebuilding the M engine then transplanting into my E12, or just buying the interior and other tid-bits. Any Ideas? Would the head + Fuel injection + engine management, from a 89 or 90 M5 fit on a 3.3 or 3.0 short block?<p>: : Thanks for any insight.<p>: I would suggest not trying to place the M head on a 3.0/3.3 block. Mixing and matching heads on blocks could a very expensive experiment. Even if you get it to work, you would end up with a head that was designed to flow air for a 3.5L at 7000 rpm on a 3.0 block. You will have a low to no torque engine and a tough time finding the right pistons. In addition you might have tough time getting engine intake plenum (sp?) to clear the brake booster.<p>: If you really want the M engine, my suggestion: Take the entire engine w/all the accessories out of the original car and inspect the bottom end and buy it very cheap. Worst case you need a new crank/block, best case you need a new oil pump and sump. The BMW crank rides very high in the block so the crank might be OK, but if the car was run w/o oil, a rebuild in the cards.<p>: M parts are very expensive and the dealer is typically the only ones that have them. I think a gasket kit is around $320 or so (yuck). I would look at building a 3.5-3.6L with a cam ,you can get 240hp pretty easily and have many more choices for parts.<p>: Wietse<p></i>

Wietse
02-03-2000, 09:50 AM
<i>: : I recently found a damaged M5 (1989)or (1990) I am not sure exactly. A lot of the parts I want are still intact. However there are stuctural problems preventing the car from being rebuilt. The interior and wheels trans and some other bits and pieces are in good shape.<p>: : I do wonder about the engine, from what I have seen the block has sustained a great deal of damage, the owner must have stradled a concrete curb at a high rate of speed. It is a 3.5 liter block of the M flavor. The question I have is if the top end of the engine can be transplanted onto a 3.3 or 3.0 block from an earlier car. I realize the timing chain would have to be changed which would require changin the crank which would probably lead to changing the block so I am left with the possibility of finding an empty 3.5 block and undamaged components and rebuilding the M engine then transplanting into my E12, or just buying the interior and other tid-bits. Any Ideas? Would the head + Fuel injection + engine management, from a 89 or 90 M5 fit on a 3.3 or 3.0 short block?<p>: : Thanks for any insight.<p><br>: Carlie,<p>: I think the 88 M5 block and the early euro 3.5l blocks are the same (both basically M1 blocks). The 3.0/3.3 blocks are different --how? Maybe water passages, oil passages etc to make room for the 93.4mm bore. <p>: If you decide to buy the wrecked car and findout the head won't fit your 3.3 --maybe I could find the head & front timing covers a nice home. :-)<p>: Frank<p></i><p>Frank:<p>I believe the early 3.5/M1/M5&M6 (93.5*84)(3460??) have siamesed cylinder. I think these blocks can be taken all the way to 95mm bore without issue.<p>The 3.0 and 3.3 do not have siamesed bores, but can still be taken to 92.5 to 93mm bore.<p>How the late 3.4L (92*86)(3430)fits into this, I do not know. I am pretty sure these blocks do have siamesed blocks and it really does not make sense that BMW would cast 2 different blocks so close in bore and stroke, but then again GM did for years. These might be the same blocks as the M1/M535i block????<p>Hope that helps.<br>


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