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Michael
04-08-1999, 02:45 PM
Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>Thank for any inputs...<p>Michael

Steve
04-08-1999, 02:56 PM
<i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

Tedd
04-08-1999, 03:04 PM
<i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

Gilbert
04-08-1999, 03:09 PM
I think if you are looking for better performance, hands down for the 328. It's a no brainer.<br>If you are thinking rear leg room and luxury, you might be better off with the 323. I test drove the (E36) 328is as well as the (E46)328i. I now drive an E46. I felt that the E46 was roomier. (I am 6'-3") I also liked the fact that it has the bratwurstbag.(H.P.S.) The look of the vehicle didn't really come into play. The coupe was never really a contender, because I was looking for a sedan. (If I was looking for a coupe-I'd be posting on the M3 board right now. ;-)<p>Have you test driven both cars? An interior can make or break a car. While some people think one interior is better than the other(I heard arguments for both sides.)--it didn't come into play in my decision. I think if I were given a choice between these two, I'd probably go with the 328.

KMP
04-08-1999, 03:22 PM
<i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p>I have a 99 328i now, last car was a 96 328is. I miss the old style feel and performance. Go with the 98 328i and you won't have to deal with all the initial bugs that will be worked out in the future. The 98 328i is 6 years old in terms of quality control. Good Luck.<br></i>

William Ow
04-08-1999, 03:25 PM
If performance is a concern, When the gear sets become available, swap the stock E46 323i 3.07 gears for 3.15 or 3.23 and you will have about the same power (to the wheel) as a 328i (with 2.93 gears stock). With 3.23 gearing in the E46323i, the E36 328i only has a 3% rear wheel torque advantage over the E46 323i<p>William<p><br>I was looking into why the E46 328i dosn't accelerate as fast as previous BMW's, though it is improved (and only weighs a<br>fraction more then previous 325/328's). The reason seems to be the final drive gearing (as all late model 3's have similar ratio<br>manual gearboxes). I wanted to quanify the effects the gearing has on the performance of the car. I did a 95 Excell spread sheet<br>to show the differences bewteen the various 3 series cars and the effect the gearing has on the E46 328i.<br>Gearing changes are generally not typical on cars (except racers, muscle cars and BMW fanitics) but it is generally not that hard<br>to changes out or that expensive. Modifying gearing is very typical on Motorcycles where stock gearing is set high to pass EPA<br>but then is regeared by the owner to add more acceleration. Acceleration is a directly related to torque and gearing (engine<br>torque x rear drive ratio gives rear wheel torque, generally based on 1:1 ratio). <br>A E46 323i has 88% of the 328i's engine torque but after the gears has 92% of the rear wheel torque...That make the 323i<br>much closer to the 328i in performance. The 328i is geared about as high as BMW's get. Take a look at the chart. A 328i<br>geared with a 3.23 rear ratio makes the same rear wheel torque as a equivalent 2.93 ratioed 328i with 227lbs of torque at the<br>engine....Thas a big improvement. Gearing is an excellent way to make more rear wheel power for about the same cost as a<br>chip/filter and a good exhaust ($1600 from BMP w/ 40% limited slip rear). The idea is to gear the car to achieve maximum<br>acceleration, while still able to hit top speed at redline (what the car will do with the available power, most casr do not have<br>enough power to pull redline in their top gear...geared too high) and still motor down the highway acceptable (not feeling too<br>buzzy).<br>I'm happy to E-mail anyone who wants my Excell (95) spread sheet to play with (spreed sheet has more info)...<br>I will likely go for a 3.15 or 3.23 ratio on my 328i.<br>Enjoy...<p>William Ow<p>BMW 328I Gearing <br>by William Ow RWT = Rear Wheel Torque <p>BMW 328i 323i 328i 325i M3<br>Chasis E46 E46 E36 E36 E36<br>Displacement 2.8 2.5 2.8 2.5 3.2<br>HP 193 170 190 189 240<br>Torque 206 181 206 185 236<br>Max RPM 6000 6000 6000 6000 6800?<br>Rear Ratio 2.93 3.07 3.15 3.15 3.23<br>Weight 3200 3150 3200 3150 3150<br>RWT 1.1 Ratio604 556 649 583 762<br>Weight to Torq.5.30 5.67 4.93 5.41 4.13<p>% of 328i <br>Engine Tq. 100% 88% 100% 90% 115%<p>% of 328i RWT100% 92% 108% 97% 126%<p>Gearing <br>1st 4.21 4.23 4.21 4.21 4.21<br>2nd 2.49 2.52 2.49 2.49 2.49<br>3rd 1.66 1.66 1.66 1.66 1.66<br>4th 1.24 1.22 1.24 1.24 1.24<br>5th 1 1 1 1 1<p>RWT in gear <br>1st 2541 2350 2732 2453 3209<br>2nd 1503 1400 1616 1451 1898<br>3rd 1002 922 1077 967 1265<br>4th 748 678 805 723 945<br>5th 604 556 649 583 762<br>Wheel / Tire Diameter 25 25 25 25 25<br>Final drive gearing <br>1st 12.34 12.99 13.26 13.26 13.60<br>2nd 7.30 7.74 7.84 7.84 8.04<br>3rd 4.86 5.10 5.23 5.23 5.36<br>4th 3.63 3.75 3.91 3.91 4.01<br>5th 2.93 3.07 3.15 3.15 3.23<br>Road Speed <br>1st 36 34 34 34 37<br>2nd 61 58 57 57 63<br>3rd 92 88 85 85 94<br>4th 123 119 114 114 126<br>5th 152 145 142 142 157<p>E46 328i Ratio Options <br>Rear Ratio 2.93 3.07 3.15 3.23 3.45<br>Torque 206 206 206 206 206<br>RWT 1.1 Ratio 604 632 649 665 711<br>Weight to Torque5.30 5.06 4.93 4.81 4.50<br>% of 2.93 Ratio 100% 105% 108% 110% 118%<br>Reletive Torque <br>@2.93 Gearing: 206 216 221 227 245<p><p><p><<: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

they're flaming the hell out of the e46
04-08-1999, 03:36 PM
<i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

Ed
04-08-1999, 03:44 PM
<i>: : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : Michael<p>: I have a 99 328i now, last car was a 96 328is. I miss the old style feel and performance. Go with the 98 328i and you won't have to deal with all the initial bugs that will be worked out in the future. The 98 328i is 6 years old in terms of quality control. Good Luck.<p></i>

Steve
04-08-1999, 03:47 PM
<i>: : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : Michael<p></i>

Jack
04-08-1999, 04:42 PM
A few questions William,<p>1. Do you know if I could get away with doing this in a leased car?<p>2. To what extend will this affect 3rd and 4th gear passing times and constant highway driveability?<p>Thank you<br>Jack Lunden<br>jlunden@yahoo.com

iot
04-08-1999, 05:13 PM
has a cheaper, lower quality interior than the E36 328/323is. Even the Jetta/Golfs are now better. I'm not counting Opels or Smart Cars because they aren't sold in the US.<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

Pejman
04-08-1999, 06:22 PM
<i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>I had exactly the same problem. However, my problom was a bit more complicated. I wanted to lease my car and the residual value of the e36 was really bad and my payments would have been very high (10k miles per year, $4000 down, $428 per month, 24 months, residual %70). I am going to order my '99 323i sport package tomorrow because the numbers are making alot more sense (12k mi per year, $2600 down, $425 per month, 36 months, residual 68%). I am however, getting the 16" wheels that come with the '98 328i-sport instead of the ones that come with '99 I think they go a lot better with the character of the new car.<p>You have a tough choice a head of you. But somehow I think there is no way you can go wrong with any one of these great cars.<p>Just my $0.02 worth.

William Ow
04-08-1999, 06:36 PM
Jack,<br> It might not be cost effective to do a gear change on a leased car.But we will know better when the gears actually becomre available. Where it could be cost effective is where the whole differential can be purchased with the lower gearing, then when you trade the car back in take out the better rear drive and replace it with the stock one (then sell the trick unit). But I'm sure a factory differential will be expensive.<p> a E46 328i with stock 2.93 rear gearing @3500rpm's is at:<br>54mph in 3rd<br>72mph in 4th<br>89mph in 5th<br> I used 3500rpm's as this is the cars peak torque output and the car tends to accelerate best around there.<br>E46 328i with 3.15 gearing @3500 rpm's:<br>50mph in 3rd<br>67mph in 4th<br>83mph in 5th<br>328i with 3.23 gearing:<br>49mph in 3rd<br>65mph in 4th<br>81mph in 5th<p> Bottom line with the lower gears, you will be in the meat of your powerband sooner at any given road speed. In quarter mile type times (not my reason for the gear change but a good compareson) most of the BMW's are in the high 80 to mid 90 MPH when they cross the 1/4 mile and I assume that they are in forth gear by that time (as 3rd at redline is 89mph) . If you can reach the 1/4 mile in the same gear as before but be higher in the RPM's the time to get there will usually be shorter. This will only not be the case if the speed at which you are tring to get to now requires another shift as a result of the lower gearing, as the shift itself with take time and it will now put you back in a lower part of the RPM band.But even with 3.15 gearing 4th still equates to 114mph in forth gear, so this shouldn't be a problem....<br> Bottom line I think that the E46 (and E36) 328i's are geared too high, unless you regularly see 150mph (which you would need some serious tuning to actually be able to pull)....<p><br>William Ow<p><i>: A few questions William,<p>: 1. Do you know if I could get away with doing this in a leased car?<p>: 2. To what extend will this affect 3rd and 4th gear passing times and constant highway driveability?<p>: Thank you<br>: Jack Lunden<br>: jlunden@yahoo.com<p></i>

Bryan
04-08-1999, 09:09 PM
Before the E46 came out I felt the 3 series interior (never driven one) and styling were inferior to the competition. Plain, almost cheap looking - definitely not would I would expect from a BMW. Was almost set to buy a different car (although the 528 was under consideration) but I heard the new 3 series (E46) was out and stopped by dealer to check it out. After seeing the redesigned interior (very 5ish) and exterior (also very 5ish) all it took was a test drive to make up my mind. Again, I've never driven an E36 so I can't comment on the performance differences.<p><p><br><i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

Hal
04-08-1999, 10:33 PM
I bought a 36 325 first year car(albeit used) and it was not a pleasant experience. I still like the Bimmers however it is increasingly hard for me to come back based on the 46(don't care for the new "rounded" styling - now the new coupe 46 does look great...). Anyway, waiting on the next M3 I'll continue to enjoy my Avant.<p>98.5 A4QMS2.8 Avant - German car lover...

[+]!
04-09-1999, 01:52 AM
The steering feel in the E36 is awesome. You'll read in articles about how you can read the road with this car. It's absolutely true. I also really loved the weighting of steering. I guess steering/handling is the essence of a BMW so this is a huge advantage. BUT, the e46 is so much more refined, has a better motor (which is in itself a huge advantage) a far better interior (the e36 interior is very cheap) and in my opinion, looks better. The E36 is closer to the philosophy of the ideal BMW, but the E46 is a better car.<p><br><i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

[+]!
04-09-1999, 01:54 AM
<i>: The steering feel in the E36 is awesome. You'll read in articles about how you can read the road with this car. It's absolutely true. I also really loved the weighting of steering. I guess steering/handling is the essence of a BMW so this is a huge advantage. BUT, the e46 is so much more refined, has a better motor (which is in itself a huge advantage) a far better interior (the e36 interior is very cheap) and in my opinion, looks better. The E36 is closer to the philosophy of the ideal BMW, but the E46 is a better car.<p>: <br>: : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : Michael<p></i>

Steve
04-09-1999, 08:32 AM
<i>: Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: Thank for any inputs...<p>: Michael<p></i>

eom
04-09-1999, 12:20 PM
<i>: : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : Michael<p></i>

Steve
04-09-1999, 02:07 PM
<i>: : : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : : Michael<p></i>

looking interiors I've seen!
04-09-1999, 03:07 PM
<i>: : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : Michael<p></i>

Steve
04-09-1999, 03:47 PM
<i>: : : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : : Michael<p></i>

Tony Braich
04-09-1999, 04:42 PM
Definately....I would wait for a 2000 model E46 which is built after the factory reopens in September.....that would ensure that you get any improvements that are meant for 2000 model year.<p><i>: I bought a 36 325 first year car(albeit used) and it was not a pleasant experience. I still like the Bimmers however it is increasingly hard for me to come back based on the 46(don't care for the new "rounded" styling - now the new coupe 46 does look great...). Anyway, waiting on the next M3 I'll continue to enjoy my Avant.<p>: 98.5 A4QMS2.8 Avant - German car lover...<p></i>

Jack
04-09-1999, 05:17 PM
<i>: Jack,<br>: It might not be cost effective to do a gear change on a leased car.But we will know better when the gears actually becomre available. Where it could be cost effective is where the whole differential can be purchased with the lower gearing, then when you trade the car back in take out the better rear drive and replace it with the stock one (then sell the trick unit). But I'm sure a factory differential will be expensive.<p>: a E46 328i with stock 2.93 rear gearing @3500rpm's is at:<br>: 54mph in 3rd<br>: 72mph in 4th<br>: 89mph in 5th<br>: I used 3500rpm's as this is the cars peak torque output and the car tends to accelerate best around there.<br>: E46 328i with 3.15 gearing @3500 rpm's:<br>: 50mph in 3rd<br>: 67mph in 4th<br>: 83mph in 5th<br>: 328i with 3.23 gearing:<br>: 49mph in 3rd<br>: 65mph in 4th<br>: 81mph in 5th<p>: Bottom line with the lower gears, you will be in the meat of your powerband sooner at any given road speed. In quarter mile type times (not my reason for the gear change but a good compareson) most of the BMW's are in the high 80 to mid 90 MPH when they cross the 1/4 mile and I assume that they are in forth gear by that time (as 3rd at redline is 89mph) . If you can reach the 1/4 mile in the same gear as before but be higher in the RPM's the time to get there will usually be shorter. This will only not be the case if the speed at which you are tring to get to now requires another shift as a result of the lower gearing, as the shift itself with take time and it will now put you back in a lower part of the RPM band.But even with 3.15 gearing 4th still equates to 114mph in forth gear, so this shouldn't be a problem....<br>: Bottom line I think that the E46 (and E36) 328i's are geared too high, unless you regularly see 150mph (which you would need some serious tuning to actually be able to pull)....<p>: <br>: William Ow<p>: : A few questions William,<p>: : 1. Do you know if I could get away with doing this in a leased car?<p>: : 2. To what extend will this affect 3rd and 4th gear passing times and constant highway driveability?<p>: : Thank you<br>: : Jack Lunden<br>: : jlunden@yahoo.com<p></i>

I'm sorry, but the E46 is better
04-09-1999, 11:16 PM
<br>: : : : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : : : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : : : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : : : Michael<p>

your E36, it has a cheap int.
04-10-1999, 10:15 AM
<i>: : : : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : : : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : : : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : : : Michael<p></i>

your E36, it has a cheap int.
04-10-1999, 10:15 AM
<i>: : : : Hey Bimmerphiles, need a little bit of advice...<p>: : : : I currently have a choice of either a 1998 328i w/ all the trimmings or a 1999 323i w/ also all of the trimmings...Although I'm not really a big fan of the new body of the E46, I was wondering what you E46 owners thought of it and would in your opinion should I purchase. Prices for both vehicles are nearly identical so price is not a factor in the decision<p>: : : : Thank for any inputs...<p>: : : : Michael<p></i>


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