Roadfly.com         Roadfly Home | Features | Car Review Videos | Car Reviews | Cars For Sale | Used Car Parts Classifieds | Forum | Car Review Archives | Forum Archives Index



PDA



Mike
01-10-1999, 01:06 AM
I have a '92 535i, live in chicago. This is my first few days driving in the cold, between 0-15 deg F. Anyways, When I start the car and let it idle for maybe 5 or 10 minutes to warm up, the temperature gauge seems to come up to a normal operating temp. When I don't let it sit long, maybe a minute or less and drive, after a good amount of driving, variable and steady speed, the temperature never comes out of the blue area?? After like even 30 minutes of driving? Is this normal for this weather or should it come higher? I do get heat, my floor vents seem to blow heat, and only heat, I tried them earlier in different temperature and they wouldn't blow cool air, only hot. After driving for like 10 minutes the floor blows nice and hot, but my side vents blow cool and my center vents with dial up blow a bit warmer. After awhile they heat up more and work differently depending on how I vary the flow. The defroster seems to work ok. Could someone tell me how the temperature is supposed to run and how the heating is supposed to work? Will a new thermostat fix all this.. which isn't that bad. My dad says as long as I am getting heat I am ok, but I think the thermostat may be stuck open. Any help would be great,thanks.

Phil Coppin
01-10-1999, 10:07 AM
Mike,<br>With the very cold weather here (I live in Wheaton) you will find that the car does take a fair time to get up to normal temps because of the cold air being forced through the rad/engine compartment. Obviously, if you are idling the car it will warm up quicker. It takes my 525i about 2/3 miles to get up to normal rad. temp and get some decent heat out of the system. Remember, just because the rad temp is going up, your oil temps will still be way down. We notice this on my wife's A4q. After 4 miles the water temp was normal but the oil temp hadn't even moved off 150.<p><p>Phil C.<br>95 525i 5spd. Sharked

EM
01-11-1999, 08:35 AM
After a fairly brief warm-up phase, your temp gauge should read the same regardless of the outside temperature. I think 30 min in the blue is probably too long. If I had to guess, I would say to start by replacing the t-stat.<p>With a stuck-open t-stat, you'll get some heat, but the engine won't really get up to operating temperature and that occurrance can cause all sorts of baddie-type things to go on in your engine. As referred to in an earlier post from Phil, your oil temp (even with a working t-stat) will take quite a bit longer to rise than the water. And your oil needs to reach a certain temp to purge out water (condensation), volatile byproducts from the combustion process (acids, etc.) and other nasty stuff. Additionally, those commercials you see about oils not pouring when cold are true -- yet another argument for running a synth oil, especially when/where outside temperatures are so extreme. BTW, your defroster will probably still work when your t-stat is bad because it uses the A/C system to clear the windows (really). <p>I'd replace the t-stat and go from there...<p>Good luck,<p>EM<p>: I have a '92 535i, live in chicago. This is my first few days driving in the cold, between 0-15 deg F. Anyways, When I start the car and let it idle for maybe 5 or 10 minutes to warm up, the temperature gauge seems to come up to a normal operating temp. When I don't let it sit long, maybe a minute or less and drive, after a good amount of driving, variable and steady speed, the temperature never comes out of the blue area?? After like even 30 minutes of driving? Is this normal for this weather or should it come higher? I do get heat, my floor vents seem to blow heat, and only heat, I tried them earlier in different temperature and they wouldn't blow cool air, only hot. After driving for like 10 minutes the floor blows nice and hot, but my side vents blow cool and my center vents with dial up blow a bit warmer. After awhile they heat up more and work differently depending on how I vary the flow. The defroster seems to work ok. Could someone tell me how the temperature is supposed to run and how the heating is supposed to work? Will a new thermostat fix all this.. which isn't that bad. My dad says as long as I am getting heat I am ok, but I think the thermostat may be stuck open. Any help would be great,thanks. <p>

Phil COppin
01-11-1999, 10:18 AM
After my reply, I decided to try out my 525i from a dead cold start yesterday (it hadn't been used for a few days and it was 4F outside!). Started it, idled it and drove 2 miles and it took 10 minutes to get warm and produce heat. Top rad. hose was hot, heater blowing hot air and the heater control and heater hoses were hot BUT the bottom rad. hose was stone cold!! <br>I ran the car again (drove 2 miles) let it idle for 20 minutes and, tada, finally the bottom hose got vaguely WARM not hot vaguely WARM and the RH side of the rad was just warm!<br>I also tested the fan clutch, stopped with mild interference - thats fine. <br>Wow, it appears that these engines run COOL....I put my fingers on the thermostat housing and it was just warm. The oil was plenty hot enough, I could barely touch the oil filter housing..but the cooling system appeared to be working fine. The temp gauge stayed nicely in the middle after the couple of runs and idling for 20 minutes but on the initial run (when first started), it slowly and I mean slowly climbed to a tad just under halfway and, when I parked and idled the car, fell down to the 1/4 mark. Unless someone tells me otherwise, it appears that the cooling system on these engines is designed to "overcool" and this is very apparent in very cold weather. The good news is that the oil appears to reach operating temps nicely (I didn't measure the temp but the filter housing was HOT). So the oil appears to be over-assisting in the cooling process (which, as you all should know, is part of its job!) when the weather is very, very cold. So, short runs in our cars in cold weather are NOT very good for it thus necessitating at least the 3k or 3mo oil changes if you live in cold climates. <p>Two things come to readily mind :<br>1. If the above is true, you had better make sure<br> you have the correct grade and mix of coolant<br> and change it per the schedule (2 years)!!<br>2. Synthetic oils become almost mandatory on our<br> engines in the winter. This comment is reinforced by the fact that BMW now uses<br> synth oil as standard on all their engines.<p>Would appreciate any engineering insight on this if my summation is incorrect. FYI - This test, although somewhat unscientific was done with my 525i 5spd that has only 20k on it and, being the ex-racer, current pilot thusly ****, double-checking SOB that I am, is in excellent shape.<p>Phil C.<br>95 525i 5spd. Sharked

SC
01-11-1999, 01:04 PM
<i>: After my reply, I decided to try out my 525i from a dead cold start yesterday (it hadn't been used for a few days and it was 4F outside!). Started it, idled it and drove 2 miles and it took 10 minutes to get warm and produce heat. Top rad. hose was hot, heater blowing hot air and the heater control and heater hoses were hot BUT the bottom rad. hose was stone cold!! <br>: I ran the car again (drove 2 miles) let it idle for 20 minutes and, tada, finally the bottom hose got vaguely WARM not hot vaguely WARM and the RH side of the rad was just warm!<br>: I also tested the fan clutch, stopped with mild interference - thats fine. <br>: Wow, it appears that these engines run COOL....I put my fingers on the thermostat housing and it was just warm. The oil was plenty hot enough, I could barely touch the oil filter housing..but the cooling system appeared to be working fine. The temp gauge stayed nicely in the middle after the couple of runs and idling for 20 minutes but on the initial run (when first started), it slowly and I mean slowly climbed to a tad just under halfway and, when I parked and idled the car, fell down to the 1/4 mark. Unless someone tells me otherwise, it appears that the cooling system on these engines is designed to "overcool" and this is very apparent in very cold weather. The good news is that the oil appears to reach operating temps nicely (I didn't measure the temp but the filter housing was HOT). So the oil appears to be over-assisting in the cooling process (which, as you all should know, is part of its job!) when the weather is very, very cold. So, short runs in our cars in cold weather are NOT very good for it thus necessitating at least the 3k or 3mo oil changes if you live in cold climates. <p>: Two things come to readily mind :<br>: 1. If the above is true, you had better make sure<br>: you have the correct grade and mix of coolant<br>: and change it per the schedule (2 years)!!<br>: 2. Synthetic oils become almost mandatory on our<br>: engines in the winter. This comment is reinforced by the fact that BMW now uses<br>: synth oil as standard on all their engines.<p>: Would appreciate any engineering insight on this if my summation is incorrect. FYI - This test, although somewhat unscientific was done with my 525i 5spd that has only 20k on it and, being the ex-racer, current pilot thusly ****, double-checking SOB that I am, is in excellent shape.<p>: Phil C.<br>: 95 525i 5spd. Sharked <p></i>

Craig Wright
01-11-1999, 10:36 PM
<br>: Wow, it appears that these engines run COOL....I put my fingers on the thermostat housing and it was just warm. The oil was plenty hot enough, I could barely touch the oil filter housing..but the cooling system appeared to be working fine. The temp gauge stayed nicely in the middle after the couple of runs and idling for 20 minutes but on the initial run (when first started), it slowly and I mean slowly climbed to a tad just under halfway and, when I parked and idled the car, fell down to the 1/4 mark. Unless someone tells me otherwise, it appears that the cooling system on these engines is designed to "overcool" and this is very apparent in very cold weather. The good news is that the oil appears to reach operating temps nicely (I didn't measure the temp but the filter housing was HOT). So the oil appears to be over-assisting in the cooling process (which, as you all should know, is part of its job!) when the weather is very, very cold. So, short runs in our cars in cold weather are NOT very good for it thus necessitating at least the 3k or 3mo oil changes if you live in cold climates. <p>: Phil C.<br>: 95 525i 5spd. Sharked <p>:You make a reference to "overcooling". What is normal for cooling? I think my 89 535i w/ 42k may be overheating just a little.<br>:I just had an Inspection II done last month, i.e. flush and new coolant. My gague now registers around the 3/4 mark, usually just to the right after it has warmed up. but never any higher. This concerns me because I seem to remember the gague reading at the 1/2 mark prior to service. FYI, I also reside in a "cool" climate: Cleveland, Ohio.<br>:Thanks in advance for your comments,<p>:Craig Wright<br>89 535i

Dan
01-12-1999, 02:36 AM
Of course, the real solution to your problem is to give it up and move to Southern California!<p>Dan Masucci<br>Lake Forest, CA<br>94 530i/5<br>94 540i/A<p><br><i>: I have a '92 535i, live in chicago. This is my first few days driving in the cold, between 0-15 deg F. Anyways, When I start the car and let it idle for maybe 5 or 10 minutes to warm up, the temperature gauge seems to come up to a normal operating temp. When I don't let it sit long, maybe a minute or less and drive, after a good amount of driving, variable and steady speed, the temperature never comes out of the blue area?? After like even 30 minutes of driving? Is this normal for this weather or should it come higher? I do get heat, my floor vents seem to blow heat, and only heat, I tried them earlier in different temperature and they wouldn't blow cool air, only hot. After driving for like 10 minutes the floor blows nice and hot, but my side vents blow cool and my center vents with dial up blow a bit warmer. After awhile they heat up more and work differently depending on how I vary the flow. The defroster seems to work ok. Could someone tell me how the temperature is supposed to run and how the heating is supposed to work? Will a new thermostat fix all this.. which isn't that bad. My dad says as long as I am getting heat I am ok, but I think the thermostat may be stuck open. Any help would be great,thanks. <p></i>

EM
01-12-1999, 08:11 AM
I'm not sure whether this applies to your motor, but are you sure they bled the system properly after doing the service? Your symptoms do not sound normal for after a cooling service. If anything, I would think that it should run at 1/4, not 3/4. T-stat stuck perhaps?<p>Regarding "overcooling", most (all?) cars are engineered so that they have excess cooling capacity built in. For example, when you're running along at highway speeds, lots of air running through the radiator, the system might be working at 50% of capacity. But, when you run into that traffic jam after building up all that heat in the motor, there has to be excess cooling capacity built in to the system to handle the needs of the motor when at a stop, on that hot summer day, after running at 75mph for an hour. You might run at 95% capacity then. If this feature wasn't designed in, your car overheats.<p>Hope this helps.<p>EM<p>: :You make a reference to "overcooling". What is normal for cooling? I think my 89 535i w/ 42k may be overheating just a little.<br>: :I just had an Inspection II done last month, i.e. flush and new coolant. My gague now registers around the 3/4 mark, usually just to the right after it has warmed up. but never any higher. This concerns me because I seem to remember the gague reading at the 1/2 mark prior to service. FYI, I also reside in a "cool" climate: Cleveland, Ohio.<br>: :Thanks in advance for your comments,<p>: :Craig Wright<br>: 89 535i<p>

Scott Taylor
01-12-1999, 12:11 PM
<br><i><br>: I'm not sure whether this applies to your motor, but are you sure they bled the system properly after doing the service? Your symptoms do not sound normal for after a cooling service. If anything, I would think that it should run at 1/4, not 3/4. T-stat stuck perhaps?<p>: Regarding "overcooling", most (all?) cars are engineered so that they have excess cooling capacity built in. For example, when you're running along at highway speeds, lots of air running through the radiator, the system might be working at 50% of capacity. But, when you run into that traffic jam after building up all that heat in the motor, there has to be excess cooling capacity built in to the system to handle the needs of the motor when at a stop, on that hot summer day, after running at 75mph for an hour. You might run at 95% capacity then. If this feature wasn't designed in, your car overheats.<p>: Hope this helps.<p>: EM<p>: : :You make a reference to "overcooling". What is normal for cooling? I think my 89 535i w/ 42k may be overheating just a little.<br>: : :I just had an Inspection II done last month, i.e. flush and new coolant. My gague now registers around the 3/4 mark, usually just to the right after it has warmed up. but never any higher. This concerns me because I seem to remember the gague reading at the 1/2 mark prior to service. FYI, I also reside in a "cool" climate: Cleveland, Ohio.<br>: : :Thanks in advance for your comments,<p>: : :Craig Wright<br>: : 89 535i<p><br></i> Germs;<br> I dont know if I'm remembering this correctly<br>or not,but it seems in the past I've seen drivers<br>in COLD climates (even truck drivers ?) block-off<br>some or all? of the airflow to their radiators,<br>using a thin sheet of metal or cardboard?...thusly<br>stopping/reducing excessive cold air from blowing<br>thru and allowing the engine /heating system to<br>warm-up?<br>Some experimentation would probably be necessary<br>as to how much to block- off and placement,etc...<br>This might be an option for you polar bears-<br>P.S. :Dont forget to remove "blocking-piece" before leaving on trip to Florida ! :-) Scott.

Phil Coppin
01-12-1999, 12:13 PM
Hey Dan,<br>What a trade that is! Lose our cold weather and our increased driving skills for freeway gridlock, earthquakes, fire and pestilence? ;-)<br>Never...stay cool!!<p><br>Phil C.<br>95 525i 5spd. Sharked (and winterized!)

Phil C.
01-12-1999, 02:02 PM
I am going along with another couple of posters here on a couple of issues.<br>It is important that the system is bled properly. If you have a Bentley's E34 Manual it explains how to bleed the system. I agree, if it us up 3/4 i/o 1/2 on the temp gauge, take it back to the dealership. Yes, it could be an inop. thermostat basically it would be stuck closed or air in the system. <br>When I meant "overcooled" I understood that systems are optimized for hot weather use but all my other other vehicles that I had, and still have an Audi A4q 2.8, in subzero Chicago weather warmed up much quicker than this....it was an observation on my part certainly not a criticism. Thusly, on short trips I will definitely be putting heavy duty aluminum foil on my grill to cut down the air flow and will be checking the warm-up times and temps accordingly. <br>BTW - Doubling up H.D. aluminum foil and putting on the outside of the kidney grill is much easier getting on and off than screwing around with cardboard in front of the rad.<p>Phil C.<br>95 525i 5spd. Sharked

Sami Sarelius
01-17-1999, 07:02 AM
I have a -89 525i, and live in Finland. The winters can be very cold (not rare to have 30 degrees below). The temp needle goes up to the middle of the gauge quite quickly, after about 5 miles and stays in the middle all the time. There is no significant difference in this between summers and winters, although when it's REALLY cold, it may take 10 miles before the temp stabilises to the middle.<p>Unfortuntely I have no advice on this matter in addition to what has already been said in the previous follow-ups but just posted this for your reference.<p>Rgs,<p>Sami<br> <p>


Roadfly Home | Car Reviews | Forum Archives Index