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Larry
09-26-1999, 01:10 PM
Hey folks:<p> To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br> To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br> Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br> If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br> Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br> Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>Food for thought,<br>Larry

Mr. T.
09-26-1999, 01:57 PM
<i>: Hey folks:<p>: To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br>: To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br>: Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br>: If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br>: Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br>: Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>: Food for thought,<br>: Larry<p></i>

Jim
09-26-1999, 03:22 PM
If you think that BMW is going to release a dog E46 M3 for MY2001, you must be either dreaming, because you dont want it to humiliate the current M3 or you think that BMW does not have a clue.

Larry
09-26-1999, 11:05 PM
Yo:<p>>>If you think that BMW is going to release a dog E46 M3 for MY2001, you must be either dreaming, because you dont want it to humiliate the current M3 or you think that BMW does not have a clue<<<p> Guys- please read posts with care before you drop pseudo-insults. Re-read my post and note the relevant "if"'s. Among other things, I said:<br>"If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog." <br> If BMW does what I said, the E46 won't come close to humiliating the E36 M3, guy. Unless, of course, the I6 were to be pressurized a bit...:).<br>No matter what powerplant they use, a ~3500lb car will not handle like a ~3180 lb car. <br>OK???<p>Larry

PT
09-27-1999, 09:53 AM
<i>: Hey folks:<p>: To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br>: To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br>: Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br>: If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br>: Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br>: Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>: Food for thought,<br>: Larry<p></i><p>Before you claim that I am "F*CKING CRACKED", wouldn't you consider material located on the www.iaa.bmw.com domain be BMW statements, and therefore official? Sure, they haven't put out detailed specifications on the power output and weight, etc, but they already made a very clear statement that "the powerful heart of the new M3 is a high-performance 6-cylinder engine with double VANOS and other technical highlights".<p>Whether the E46 M3 will come with a V8 in the future is one thing, but I am happy to bet that it will come in I6 form for sure. I do, however, agree with you that it will be hard to get performance figures better than the E36 with an I6.

Ray Koch
09-27-1999, 10:00 AM
You're right, BMW has not offically released any info on the M3. I was hoping that they would do so at the Frankfurt show but all they did was show a "design study", whatever that is. However, since this is a forum for the exchange of information there's nothing wrong with posting statements from the press or BMW reps, just don't pass them off as offical. BMW NA does read this board which gives us an opportunity to express what we want the M3 to be. To use your example of the rumor of a >3500 lbs car, we want to make sure that BMW understands that we don't want it and won't buy it. Performance wise, the M3 has been the *top dog* overall and that's why we buy them. But with the increased competition from AMG M-B, Audi, and now VW (with their possible Jetta/Bola performance car) I think BMW has to raise the performance bar on the M3 even higher than they probably had originally planned. Maybe thats why they've been so tight lipped about it.<p><br><i>: Hey folks:<p>: To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br>: To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br>: Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br>: If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br>: Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br>: Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>: Food for thought,<br>: Larry<p></i>

Scott Turnpel
09-27-1999, 11:40 AM
This is a rumor (no flames please)<p>BMW is testing a 3.8 liter variant of the former M5 I-6 engine for the upcoming E46 M3. That engine used a larger and heavier block (than the 3.2L M3 currently uses) so BMW is experimenting with a lighter block. Estimates say power will be 365 hp (vs 340 for the former M5) and 325 ft/lb of torque.<p>There is much fighting inside BMW as to the need to develop this engine ($$$) versus using a less expensive modification to the tested 4.4 liter V8. In favor of the V8 are those that say MB has already put V8's in their 3-series equivalent and that BMW will eventually have to use V8's to keep up.<p>Those against the V8 and in favor of the new ($$$) engine say that this engine will have much better performance at high rpms than the V8 (more torque than the V8 from 6000 to 7800 rpms). One source says the first prototype was slightly slower than the V8 prototype in acceleration, but much faster in two tracks they tested it on.<p>It seems we will have to wait and see what happens!<br>

KJK
09-27-1999, 12:07 PM
<i>: Hey folks:<p>: To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br>: To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br>: Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br>: If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br>: Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br>: Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>: Food for thought,<br>: Larry<p></i>though not as quick as the new M3 needs to be, can hang with an E36 M3 in straightline performance and is better at 80+. This for a car that weighs 3800lbs. Yes, it will not handle like an M3 but 8 years of technology and a stiffer chassis may allow BMW to get the E34 M3 cornering limits beyond that of the E36.<p>If the new M3 has 340 hp and with the benefit of double-vanos, the car will be quick and should be able to out-perform the E36. <p>Again, we won't know until it comes out. You sound like one of those guys with a 99 M3 that is hoping and praying you made the right decision--which you did because the E46 won't be here for at least another year.<p>KJK 91 M5

e36 m3 man
09-27-1999, 06:42 PM
You people should factor in that the e46 has an alluminum engine and suspension, the frame is lighter and more rigid.....yeah the car is bigger and it has more on the inside, but I think the power increase will offset that, I hate to admit it because I just bought an e36, the e46 will be faster, handling.....we'll see <p><p><p><br><i>: Hey folks:<p>: To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br>: To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br>: Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br>: If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br>: Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br>: Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>: Food for thought,<br>: Larry<p></i>

a complete dog...GET REAL calm down
09-27-1999, 07:30 PM
<i>: Hey folks:<p>: To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br>: To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br>: Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br>: If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br>: Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br>: Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>: Food for thought,<br>: Larry<p><p><p></i>

Larry
09-27-1999, 10:07 PM
Bite my dharma, you twinky.<p>

TTMan
09-27-1999, 11:06 PM
Is that people on some of these forums are constantly knocking the S4 for weighing 3600 lbs., and the new M3 is supposed to be the same weight or slightly less. True, the S4 may only have 250hp, but even with that 'low' bhp number, it's cutting dangerously close to the E36 M3 performance-wise. Call up TAP and get one of their varying stages of chips, and you may be able to beat the E46 M3 for a whole lot less. I've seen the projected price for the E46 listed as anywhere from $50,000-$57,000. Ummm...why pay $8k more than an S4? With that $8k, you could have TAP do a sport turbo upgrade, H&R coilovers, and upgrade the brakes. If you don't like the S4's supposedly 'jellybean' looks, call up 1552 Design and take a look at the A!Avant Garde bodykits. And if you need more room than either the S4 or the M3 offer, consider the A6 2.7T. It's only $1,300 more than an S4.<p>Guys, just face the fact that BMW is actually going to have to face some competition for once. Why gripe? Both companies are going to be engaging in a horsepower war, and we can only benefit. BTW, have you guys heard of the RS4? A quattro wagon with 380 bhp. THAT sound like fun.

Mark G
09-27-1999, 11:48 PM
First of all, relax. <p>Second, I think BMW HAS released some official info, in an unofficial kind of way. As posted previously, BMW has stated on their website that the new M3 will have an I-6. This doesn't mean it won't also have a V8 in the future, but at first, BMW has said it will be an I-6. <p>It seems to me that BMW has been vague with their details for a number of reasons. Obviously the competition, as already mentioned, has prompted them to keep quiet about the specs. Next, as pointed out previously, if BMW announces the IAA show car as the next M3, the clock starts ticking, as by German law they have 1 year to produce the car (this was stated by another writer as being a fact--I can't verify it but I believe it). <p>Another important point, as I see it, is that BMW has struck out twice with their styling kit attempts on the E46. The original E46 "sport" kit, which was ridiculously bland, was (thankfully) also unpopular and was discontinued. The second kit that was made available was also not well received (as far as I know). The point is that, in my opinion, the M3 was presented as a showcar in order to allow BMW to change its mind if the styling proved to be less than popular. Personally, I love the styling, and the press, etc. seem to be embracing it as well, which is a good sign.<p>As far as the weight is concerned, I have heard rumors of a 3500-3600 lb M3. But if you look at the weight of the E46 coupe, which isn't that much more than the E36, and the weight of the E36 M3, which isn't that much more than the E36 coupe, it just doesn't add up. I think it's likely that the E46 M3 will weigh 3300-3400 lbs but not more. Is that too much? Yes, but the rumor mill states that a lightweight version will be available. Even with a curb weight of 3400, though, the weight:power ratio of the E46 will be better than the current US spec car. As far a handling is concerned, the weight will hurt. But Motorsport has made some changes, such as aluminum suspension components and larger wheels/tires which will (hopefully) balance things out. <p>I've been disappointed lately with the direction BMW has taken with the 3-series (i.e. too soft), and I was getting pretty sure that the M3 was going to be a bust. After seeing the pictures and hearing more and more info though I've changed my mind.<p>I guess we'll know for sure about a year from now.<p>Mark G<br>98 328is<br>'01 M3 (#1 on the list)

Gilbert
09-28-1999, 10:10 AM
'official' word from BMWNA yesterday was that it would be an inline six. Actuall from the mouth of the M-brand manager. This was the only thing they would confirm.

Joe R. B.
09-28-1999, 11:49 AM
I went to BMW NA Headquarters yesterday. They had an open house for the members of the NJ chapter of the BMWCCA.<p>BMW NA folks a the meeting said flatly that there will be no V8 for the M3.<br>They said no comment on all other questions about the M3 engine (obviously, the only alternative is an I6). However, final size and other details are not finalized yet.<p>Also, they said to expect the next M3 to be more expensive than the current one. It will come with more standard equipment. Also consider that the new engine will add a lot to the price. Consider the price differential betwen the 323 and 328 for a modest HP increase and ask youself how much people would be prepared to pay for an euro-spec M3 engine.<p>The meeting was interesting also because they had many cars on display there. An M5 (Avus blue) with a 400 HP V8 (had 2 air filters to supply the engine). Also, an X5, M-coupe, etc.<p>They talked about the future Z8, but it will cost<br>more than 100K. <p>Joe R. B.

KJK
09-28-1999, 12:55 PM
<i>: Is that people on some of these forums are constantly knocking the S4 for weighing 3600 lbs., and the new M3 is supposed to be the same weight or slightly less. True, the S4 may only have 250hp, but even with that 'low' bhp number, it's cutting dangerously close to the E36 M3 performance-wise. Call up TAP and get one of their varying stages of chips, and you may be able to beat the E46 M3 for a whole lot less. I've seen the projected price for the E46 listed as anywhere from $50,000-$57,000. Ummm...why pay $8k more than an S4? With that $8k, you could have TAP do a sport turbo upgrade, H&R coilovers, and upgrade the brakes. If you don't like the S4's supposedly 'jellybean' looks, call up 1552 Design and take a look at the A!Avant Garde bodykits. And if you need more room than either the S4 or the M3 offer, consider the A6 2.7T. It's only $1,300 more than an S4.<p>: Guys, just face the fact that BMW is actually going to have to face some competition for once. Why gripe? Both companies are going to be engaging in a horsepower war, and we can only benefit. BTW, have you guys heard of the RS4? A quattro wagon with 380 bhp. THAT sound like fun.<p></i>Nowhere have I seen that the M3 will be as much as $57k. The modification argument is stupid. I could buy a Trans Am and supercharge it and blow the doors of both cars. So what. The S4 should be exceeding the current M3 in performance but it is not. The E46 will come from the factory with less weight than the S4 and 100 more horsepower. That justifies some price differential. Also, if you prefer driving normally aspirted cars, the M3 will be the obvious choice. If the new M3 is consistent with the new M5, the handling limits should far exceed the S4.<p>I agree that the competition is good for both companies. I don't think Audi will ever sell the RS4 in this country. Question: why can't Audi build a 3.5 liter 340hp engine without turbocharging? I don't believe that BMW has some secret formula. I just think that bigger turbos and more boost isn't really progress in engine development. <p>I like Audis but I think the S4 should have gone after the new M3, not the E36. Maybe the next generation S4 will have that 380hp engine in it.

AC
09-28-1999, 03:55 PM
<i>: Hey folks:<p>: To all of you wannabe types who claim that BMW AG, NA, etc. have released ANY official specs on the new M3, YOU'RE F*CKING CRACKED. Don't tell me about Car and Driver, BMW Car, or any "press release" culled from the Frankfurt auto show. These bits of info are _not_ taken from BMW statements. <br>: To all others who don't claim this, please ignore the following post.<br>: Spoke w/just about everyone, and while certain salespersons and magazines insist that they know the enigne will be I-6, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL WORD. Some say the car will weigh ~3600Lbs. Others say maybe I6. Hmmm- 270lb-ft/340bhp w/35-3600lbs... yeah, right. Can you say,"slow as molasses in January?"<br>: If they do release a I6 3500-lb E46 M3, I pity the fool who buys the goddamn dog. That'll mean that BMW just needs to homologate the car/engine for GT, (GT3, maybe GT2) where it'll drop the car's weight to 3000lb or less. Ha-hey! Then, the I6 would be just wonderful.<br>: Anyway, re: the <comtemplated I6> street version- unless you buy a used E46 M3 race car from PTG (or whoever), you're gonna be pissed at the performance. <br>: Cornering prowess will SUFFER @ that weight, no matter what engine they use. <p>: Food for thought,<br>: Larry<p></i>

faris
09-28-1999, 04:54 PM
<i>:<br>You say:<br>"...., if BMW announces the IAA show car as the next M3, ..."<p>But the show car had a license plate that said BMW M3, doesn't that qualify as an announcement? <br>If so, they're on the hook to deliver the damn thing cause I WANT ONE, or two, or three... ;-)<br></i>

faris
09-28-1999, 04:59 PM
<i><br>YUK, Trans Am... ;-(<br></i>

TTMan
09-28-1999, 05:19 PM
that Audi sees it as more cost-effective to use turbos (as they have for years), rather than developing a horribly complicated $9k cylinder head. The S4 is not necessarily designed to beat the current M3, nor the future one. It is designed for people who buy Audis and want a particularly fast one. I doubt that the E46 M3 willl be a whole lot faster, but I have no doubts that it will be a brilliant handler. <p>As far as the RS4 is concerned, never say never. The S6 is headed this way next year, with the possibility of the S8 and S3. If BMW does make a V8 available for the E46, I think that's when you'll see the RS4. Then again, if I was purchasing a high-performance Audi that could hold more than two people, I'd go for the A6 2.7T. Lot more useable than the S4. <p>Oh, and as long as we're directing semi-snide remarks about each other's preferred car, why does the new M3 look like it was styled by Veilside?

Mark G
09-28-1999, 05:45 PM
<i>: :<br>: You say:<br>: "...., if BMW announces the IAA show car as the next M3, ..."<p>: But the show car had a license plate that said BMW M3, doesn't that qualify as an announcement? <br>: If so, they're on the hook to deliver the damn thing cause I WANT ONE, or two, or three... ;-)<br></i><p>A difference of semantics, but I think it keeps them off the hook, sorry. I hope it's the real car, too--I'm in for at least one (as long as they don't go with a 3.2L engine, that is).<p>Mark G<br>

GWC
09-28-1999, 07:45 PM
I have had the good fortune to drive a current M5 (which weighs circa 4000 lb) round a challenging race track in the UK. The handling is incredible considering the weight and size. The only downside was the slightly intrusive traction control.<p>Immediately prior to the M5, I drove the following BMWs and the comparisions are worth noting:<p>1. 535i with AC Schnitzer suspension/wheels AND manual transmission. The handling was good considering the up front weight of the V8 engine, however, it did understeer on tight corners. The M5 was on a different plane and did not feel nose heavy. <p>2. M3 E36 convertible Manual with Euro 321bhp. The top was down so there were other stimuli and some body flex. I felt that the M5 handled better, although maybe the V8 growl and low down thrust biased my opinion. I did not red line this car.<p>3. Z3 M Coupe with Euro 321 bhp. It had excellent body control. The small size and high power to weight made it fun to drive. I used all the revs in this one. Other than the easy placement of the Coupe due to its size, the M5 still had my vote in the faster corners.<p>4. 740i auto with Alpina suspension/wheels. It handled not too badly for a "bus" but the understeer in the tight corners was as expected.<p>5. 318i E36 coupe (I don't think this was sold in the USA). This car was obviously slow compared to the others BUT it was possibly the most fun in the tight corners due to its excellent balance (light 4 cylinder engine).<p>If BMW manage to deliver better handling in the E46 M3 than the E39 M5, and I think that is a certainty, then it will be outstanding. Incidently, a recent track handling test by a magazine of an Alpina B3 3.3 coupe demonstrated that the E46 can be made to handle superbly.<p>I can't wait for the E46 M3.<br>GWC

KJK
09-29-1999, 09:34 AM
<i>: that Audi sees it as more cost-effective to use turbos (as they have for years), rather than developing a horribly complicated $9k cylinder head. The S4 is not necessarily designed to beat the current M3, nor the future one. It is designed for people who buy Audis and want a particularly fast one. I doubt that the E46 M3 willl be a whole lot faster, but I have no doubts that it will be a brilliant handler. <p>: As far as the RS4 is concerned, never say never. The S6 is headed this way next year, with the possibility of the S8 and S3. If BMW does make a V8 available for the E46, I think that's when you'll see the RS4. Then again, if I was purchasing a high-performance Audi that could hold more than two people, I'd go for the A6 2.7T. Lot more useable than the S4. <p>: Oh, and as long as we're directing semi-snide remarks about each other's preferred car, why does the new M3 look like it was styled by Veilside?<p></i>You wouldn't last long in marketing at Audi. If all they want to do is sell the S4 to current Audi customers, they won't sell many. They want current M3 owners to switch.<p>They may ship the RS4 here but I would guess that they de-tune it a bit. <p>I don't own an E46 and I happen to think the coupe is a good looking car. I saw one in a dealer this weekend when buying parts. Anyway, I buy cars because of what they can do not how they look.


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