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Mark G
10-01-1999, 12:15 AM
..you found out the engine was 3.2L in displacement and put out 320hp instead of the 340-350hp 3.4L engine brought up in early rumors? Would it change things of it was also true that the European version did actually use a 3.4L engine, and the US version was simply a continuation of the Euro-spec E36 M3 engine?<p>My answer: Yes! Personally, I want at least 3.4L displacement. As much as I like the looks of the showcar, if it doesn't have the power, I'll look somewhere else.<p>No flames please (I'm currently on my 3rd BMW, already on the waiting list for the E46 M3, but I will be VERY disappointed if BMW goes with a 3.2L engine for the US).<p>Mark G

Yup
10-01-1999, 12:53 AM
BMW was planned a major change to the North American M3 line. It was more financially feasible for them to have one M3 model for every country, rather than different ones in Europe and North America. Having 3.2- and 3.4-liter engines would still entail having at least two different cars..

Baer
10-01-1999, 07:28 AM
320 hp is still 80 more hp than the current M3 which has been a benchmark in the US for perfomance cars for a couple of years now. Please lets put this in perspective and not cry over 20 hp. The e46 M3 is going to replace the e36 M3 and going to be a benchmark and a force in high performance sports cars.<p>If you want that extra hp, get a Porsche Twin Turbo (for more than double the price!!!) Otherwise, respect the new M3 for the power/value car that it is.<p>Baer<p>P.S. The 3.2l @ 320hp is more than enough to propel this show car at an alarming rate.<br></i>

Ray Koch
10-01-1999, 08:27 AM
That would depend. I care more about overall performance than engine size or HP. If they can get the E46 M3 to beat the E36 M3 in acceleration enough to justify the price hike, I'll buy. And don't forget handling :)

yes
10-01-1999, 10:55 AM
<i>: 320 hp is still 80 more hp than the current M3 which has been a benchmark in the US for perfomance cars for a couple of years now. Please lets put this in perspective and not cry over 20 hp. The e46 M3 is going to replace the e36 M3 and going to be a benchmark and a force in high performance sports cars.<p>: If you want that extra hp, get a Porsche Twin Turbo (for more than double the price!!!) Otherwise, respect the new M3 for the power/value car that it is.<p>: Baer<p>: P.S. The 3.2l @ 320hp is more than enough to propel this show car at an alarming rate.<p></i>

hp is not the only factor
10-01-1999, 11:47 AM
<i>: : 320 hp is still 80 more hp than the current M3 which has been a benchmark in the US for perfomance cars for a couple of years now. Please lets put this in perspective and not cry over 20 hp. The e46 M3 is going to replace the e36 M3 and going to be a benchmark and a force in high performance sports cars.<p>Well, have you noticed that Euro E36 M3 has 320hp hp while US has 240hp, while they have virtualy the same 0-60 times? hp number alone does not tell you anything about the 0-60 times of a car. Of course it can tell you if it's fast or not, but that's about it. Have you seen they dyno graphs for Euro and US E36 M3s? Well, US I6's hp curve gets to 240 hp early and stays around it till the redline, while euro gradually goes up to 320 and only gets it around the redline. Therefore similar 0-60 times.<p>

Caesss
10-01-1999, 12:08 PM
What I hate is that we are we always behind the EURO version. I think we should get the most for our money. Yeah 20 or 30 HP may not seem like a lot but every little bit helps. BTW 20 or 30HP extra is not pocket change. You can do a lot with that. <p><i>: ..you found out the engine was 3.2L in displacement and put out 320hp instead of the 340-350hp 3.4L engine brought up in early rumors? Would it change things of it was also true that the European version did actually use a 3.4L engine, and the US version was simply a continuation of the Euro-spec E36 M3 engine?<p>: My answer: Yes! Personally, I want at least 3.4L displacement. As much as I like the looks of the showcar, if it doesn't have the power, I'll look somewhere else.<p>: No flames please (I'm currently on my 3rd BMW, already on the waiting list for the E46 M3, but I will be VERY disappointed if BMW goes with a 3.2L engine for the US).<p>: Mark G<p></i>

Joe
10-01-1999, 04:43 PM
BMW has already stated numerous times that it is going to build an international M3. EVERY M3 will have the same specs and the Europeans WILL NOT get an upgraded version.

Mark G
10-01-1999, 07:29 PM
First of all, the reason for this post is the recent rumor that the MZ3, M coupe, and possibly E46 M3 will get a more efficiently made version of the current Euro-3.2L engine instead of the 3.4L engine previously mentioned. These are only rumors, but then so is most of the info available on the E46 M3.<p>My point here is that while 320 hp is obviously a big jump from 240, the shape of the power band in the Euro-spec car is very different. There is less low end power and more high end power than the US version. It's my personal opinion, based on my experience and knowledge, that the 80 hp gained from the addition of individual throttle bodies ala the Euro car will do less to improve performance than the extra 20-30 gained from the increase in displacement. <p>While this can be argued either way, as far as overall numbers are concerned, displacement still seems to make a bigger difference than tuning (325 vs 328, big difference, 328 vs 323, smaller difference, 328 vs M3, medium difference).<p>I don't think an E46 M3 with a 3.2L engine will be close to being competitive with the likes of a 911, RS4, Corvette, or NSX. These days, being a "world class sports car" means 1/4 mi times in the low 13s. Heck, a Camaro can outrun an E36 M3 to 100mph and 130mph if driven by an adult (rather than a 16 year old). I want an M3 that can do everything well--handle, accelerate, and brake--and I'm willing to pay for it. That's all I'm ranting about, I mean saying. <p>Mark G

Mark G
10-01-1999, 07:36 PM
...unless you have a source directly inside BMW that can disprove this, there is some evidence that there will be a 3.2L engine used for the MZ3, M coupe, and possibly, M3. I can't prove it, they're all rumors, some from magazines, some from BMW reps.

Mark G
10-01-1999, 08:04 PM
<i>: 320 hp is still 80 more hp than the current M3 which has been a benchmark in the US for perfomance cars for a couple of years now. Please lets put this in perspective and not cry over 20 hp. The e46 M3 is going to replace the e36 M3 and going to be a benchmark and a force in high performance sports cars.<p>: If you want that extra hp, get a Porsche Twin Turbo (for more than double the price!!!) Otherwise, respect the new M3 for the power/value car that it is.<p>: Baer<p>: P.S. The 3.2l @ 320hp is more than enough to propel this show car at an alarming rate.<p></i><br>(1) Keep in mind that the E46 is heavier than the E36.<p>(2) While the M3 is certainly one of the world's best handling cars, it's not fair to say that it's a benchmark for perfomance cars in the US. In a straight line, a (normally aspirated) 911, NSX, Corvette, S4, 3000GT, and even (sorry) Z28, Cobra, and F-150 Lightning come to mind as cars that would outrun an M3. The Euro M3 would probably beat the S4, the Lightning, the cobra, and the Z28 to the 1/4 mile mark, but would then be passed by the Z28 after 100mph. In the curves, of course, things change, but a number of those cars will still prevail.<p>(3) Being a force in the high performance sports car category these days means 1/4 times in the low 13s, something not achievable with a 3.2L engine in the E46.<p>(4) Please see my "clarifications" post above for further comments on why I think the displacement makes such a diference.<p>Mark G

AC
10-01-1999, 11:52 PM
i am just wondering why 321HP (E36M3)in Europe<br>and 240HP only in US???this is just ridiculous.<br>and if u really want a Euro-spec M3 E46,<br>why don't u just order it from German directly???<p>

rickp
10-02-1999, 11:05 PM
<i>: First of all, the reason for this post is the recent rumor that the MZ3, M coupe, and possibly E46 M3 will get a more efficiently made version of the current Euro-3.2L engine instead of the 3.4L engine previously mentioned. These are only rumors, but then so is most of the info available on the E46 M3.<p>: My point here is that while 320 hp is obviously a big jump from 240, the shape of the power band in the Euro-spec car is very different. There is less low end power and more high end power than the US version. It's my personal opinion, based on my experience and knowledge, that the 80 hp gained from the addition of individual throttle bodies ala the Euro car will do less to improve performance than the extra 20-30 gained from the increase in displacement. <p>: While this can be argued either way, as far as overall numbers are concerned, displacement still seems to make a bigger difference than tuning (325 vs 328, big difference, 328 vs 323, smaller difference, 328 vs M3, medium difference).<p>: I don't think an E46 M3 with a 3.2L engine will be close to being competitive with the likes of a 911, RS4, Corvette, or NSX. These days, being a "world class sports car" means 1/4 mi times in the low 13s. Heck, a Camaro can outrun an E36 M3 to 100mph and 130mph if driven by an adult (rather than a 16 year old). I want an M3 that can do everything well--handle, accelerate, and brake--and I'm willing to pay for it. That's all I'm ranting about, I mean saying. <p>: Mark G<p></i>

n/t
10-03-1999, 01:36 AM
<i>: : First of all, the reason for this post is the recent rumor that the MZ3, M coupe, and possibly E46 M3 will get a more efficiently made version of the current Euro-3.2L engine instead of the 3.4L engine previously mentioned. These are only rumors, but then so is most of the info available on the E46 M3.<p>: : My point here is that while 320 hp is obviously a big jump from 240, the shape of the power band in the Euro-spec car is very different. There is less low end power and more high end power than the US version. It's my personal opinion, based on my experience and knowledge, that the 80 hp gained from the addition of individual throttle bodies ala the Euro car will do less to improve performance than the extra 20-30 gained from the increase in displacement. <p>: : While this can be argued either way, as far as overall numbers are concerned, displacement still seems to make a bigger difference than tuning (325 vs 328, big difference, 328 vs 323, smaller difference, 328 vs M3, medium difference).<p>: : I don't think an E46 M3 with a 3.2L engine will be close to being competitive with the likes of a 911, RS4, Corvette, or NSX. These days, being a "world class sports car" means 1/4 mi times in the low 13s. Heck, a Camaro can outrun an E36 M3 to 100mph and 130mph if driven by an adult (rather than a 16 year old). I want an M3 that can do everything well--handle, accelerate, and brake--and I'm willing to pay for it. That's all I'm ranting about, I mean saying. <p>: : Mark G<p></i>

Bruce
10-03-1999, 07:44 AM
<i>: First of all, the reason for this post is the recent rumor that the MZ3, M coupe, and possibly E46 M3 will get a more efficiently made version of the current Euro-3.2L engine instead of the 3.4L engine previously mentioned. These are only rumors, but then so is most of the info available on the E46 M3.</i><p>i am telling you it is not a rumor<p><i>: My point here is that while 320 hp is obviously a big jump from 240, the shape of the power band in the Euro-spec car is very different. There is less low end power and more high end power than the US version. It's my personal opinion, based on my experience and knowledge, that the 80 hp gained from the addition of individual throttle bodies ala the Euro car will do less to improve performance than the extra 20-30 gained from the increase in displacement. </i><p>how do you know the euro engine has less low end power? (hint it dones't and has more torque available lower and has a broader torque curve)<p><i>:I don't think an E46 M3 with a 3.2L engine will be close to being competitive with the likes of a 911, RS4, Corvette, or NSX. These days, being a "world class sports car" means 1/4 mi times in the low 13s. </i><p>depends on how they gear the M3

loanshark
10-03-1999, 12:46 PM
<i>: : : First of all, the reason for this post is the recent rumor that the MZ3, M coupe, and possibly E46 M3 will get a more efficiently made version of the current Euro-3.2L engine instead of the 3.4L engine previously mentioned. These are only rumors, but then so is most of the info available on the E46 M3.<p>: : : My point here is that while 320 hp is obviously a big jump from 240, the shape of the power band in the Euro-spec car is very different. There is less low end power and more high end power than the US version. It's my personal opinion, based on my experience and knowledge, that the 80 hp gained from the addition of individual throttle bodies ala the Euro car will do less to improve performance than the extra 20-30 gained from the increase in displacement. <p>: : : While this can be argued either way, as far as overall numbers are concerned, displacement still seems to make a bigger difference than tuning (325 vs 328, big difference, 328 vs 323, smaller difference, 328 vs M3, medium difference).<p>: : : I don't think an E46 M3 with a 3.2L engine will be close to being competitive with the likes of a 911, RS4, Corvette, or NSX. These days, being a "world class sports car" means 1/4 mi times in the low 13s. Heck, a Camaro can outrun an E36 M3 to 100mph and 130mph if driven by an adult (rather than a 16 year old). I want an M3 that can do everything well--handle, accelerate, and brake--and I'm willing to pay for it. That's all I'm ranting about, I mean saying. <p>: : : Mark G<p></i>

Bruce
10-03-1999, 01:42 PM
.

Faris
10-03-1999, 04:22 PM
<i>: i am just wondering why 321HP (E36M3)in Europe<br>: and 240HP only in US???this is just ridiculous.<br>: and if u really want a Euro-spec M3 E46,<br>: why don't u just order it from German directly???<p>How can you order it directly from Germany? Would you have to import it on your own?<p></i>

AC
10-03-1999, 09:36 PM
<i>: i am just wondering why 321HP (E36M3)in Europe<br>: and 240HP only in US???this is just ridiculous.<br>: and if u really want a Euro-spec M3 E46,<br>: why don't u just order it from German directly???<p></i>

Mark G
10-03-1999, 11:53 PM
<i><br>: i am telling you it is not a rumor<br></i><p>I'm sure you're probably right, and I appreciate your input. No offense, but unless your last name is Quandt, I won't really believe it until I see it. Again, no flames--I really believe you know what you're talking about--it's just that until there's some proof, they're all rumors.<p><i><br>: how do you know the euro engine has less low end power? (hint it dones't and has more torque available lower and has a broader torque curve)<br></i><p>I think I misspoke. My impression is that the Euro spec M3 is not geared for low-end punch. This is an inference based on the fact that the US and Euro cars both have very similar 0-60 times. It has also been my impression that the individual throttle body setup is not the ideal intake for low end torque, because of its higher cross-sectional area per runner. This is probably well compensated for by the higher compression ratio of the engine among other modifications, but having never driven the car, I wouldn't really know. Obviously, the European car is much faster than the US version overall, but much of its power comes higher in the rpm range (6000-7400rpm, whereas peak HP for US version is at 6000rpm). <p><i><br>These days, being a "world class sports car" means 1/4 mi times in the low 13s. <p>: depends on how they gear the M3<p></i><p>Of course, but the current European car is still no match for the NSX or the corvette, et al. in a straight line at least. As it stands, the gearing of the M3 is pretty low. With the obligate increase in weight with the E46 chassis, I'm only trying to say that I'd like to see BMW move to at least 3.4L of displacement in order to become more competitive. <p>Mark G

BMW
10-04-1999, 10:52 PM
But u can ask BMW dealer to help u out<br>

Faris
10-05-1999, 12:03 PM
<i>: But u can ask BMW dealer to help u out<p>If you do it this way, wouldn't that be a US spec by default?<p></i>

SMcD
10-06-1999, 11:30 AM
<br>Yes. A Euro-delivery is a US spec car that you pick up in Germany, drive around Germany and then get shipped over here for you by BMW. You can then pick the car up at your local BMW dealer when it arrives. You CANNOT get a Euro spec car in the US. As far as I know, it hasn't even been crash tested here.<p>- Sean<p><i>: : But u can ask BMW dealer to help u out<p>: If you do it this way, wouldn't that be a US spec by default?<p></i>

BMW
10-06-1999, 10:25 PM
No<br> first, u go to german and buy the car! and then u ship the car to us by yourself!!<br>and when the car is in us, then u go register the <br>car like US-spec edition!!<br>i know i can do that in canada, but i am sure in the US??<br>because one of my friend had buy one MB this way!!!<br>PS: it's a trick!!!!of course if u get cought then u will be FU##!!!!

BMW
10-06-1999, 10:30 PM
Also if u really like the Euor-spec<br>u can buy new us-spec E46M3 and then buy the euro-spec <br>engine, transmission......... put on your new car!!<br>because I've ask the 321HPE36M3 before<br>i can import it but i have pay around US$75000 or over........

Faris
10-07-1999, 08:40 PM
<i>: <br>hehehe<br>I don't want to be FU##!!!!<br>I'll leave that pleasure to Clinton<p></i>


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