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BUD-NASSAU TEXAS
10-04-1999, 11:31 AM
I just got back from a business trip in Germany and there is as much speculation there as to what the new M3 engine will be as there is here in the USA. Bottom line is the E36 M3 is a MACHINE - Best sports car with a base stick under 40K period ! for how many years now?? All other cars can kiss my butt. Why are we all concerned with what they will do - you know its a BMW and will be the best. Just sit back and relax as the BEAST will be unleashed soon! You know its gonna be faster than the current one and will whip any S4 any day of the week on any surface any track...<br>Keep the faith boyz and gals.. Only time prevents us from sitting in one. BUD<br>PS: You know what i mean every morning when you wake up to go to work - start your engine on your M3 E36 and just smile as you take off .... Imagine the E46..

Andreas
10-04-1999, 11:51 AM
Hi,<p>I agree 100% regarding the Euro M3 E36 engine.<p>But it is NOT true that we don't know anything about the new M3 E46 engine. Actually it's a upgraded M3 E36 engine... It will have the same body (in-line 6) but 3.4l instead of 3.2l. It will produce 340 bhp and 370 nm. BMW confirmed that the M3 E46 will be as fast as the new M5 (0-60 in 5 s). <p>I have the info's from "Autobild" which is a famous German car magazin. So, the M3 E46 will have exactly the above-mentioned engine - for sure !!!<p>I don't know if they will introduce the same car in Europe and in the USA. I think they will... just my opinion.<p>Cheers<br>Andreas<p><p>

NB
10-04-1999, 12:11 PM
(theoretically speaking, of course) Let's get the E46 M3 and an S4 on Road Atlanta in a torrential downpour and see who's faster. You said any day of the week, on any surface, on any track. For all weather handling, I know which car I'd take...

Paul E
10-04-1999, 12:32 PM
<i>: I just got back from a business trip in Germany and there is as much speculation there as to what the new M3 engine will be as there is here in the USA. Bottom line is the E36 M3 is a MACHINE - Best sports car with a base stick under 40K period ! for how many years now?? All other cars can kiss my butt. Why are we all concerned with what they will do - you know its a BMW and will be the best. Just sit back and relax as the BEAST will be unleashed soon! You know its gonna be faster than the current one and will whip any S4 any day of the week on any surface any track...<br>: Keep the faith boyz and gals.. Only time prevents us from sitting in one. BUD<br>: PS: You know what i mean every morning when you wake up to go to work - start your engine on your M3 E36 and just smile as you take off .... Imagine the E46..<p></i> I think part of the apprehension comes from the fact that the E36 is considered by most to be the best sports car of its type in the world. BMW carefully and cleverly gave us a car that's as quick to 60 mph as the one in Europe at a much lower price. Ok. So, now comes a new M3 with 100 more horses. My guess is that it will base sticker right around $50k, and will cost most of us around $55k equipped the way we want. I'm also guessing that the car will only be marginally quicker to 60; perhaps in the 5.3 - 5.4 range. The car will be heavier than ours. And will not have the same gearing which allows current american M3s to hit 60 in a time competitive with Europe...I dont care that the Euro version can out duel me above 100 mph, as the amount of time I spend there is negligible. The bottom line question is : 'is it worth $10 - $15 K more to have a car which is maybe 1-2/10 sec faster in the range I can enjoy it, and where we spend most of our time?' I think BMW has there hands full doing a better M3. How do you top perfection?!

Bruce
10-04-1999, 01:37 PM
base MSRP will be about $45k...expect 0-60 no higher than 5.2 sec

agree
10-04-1999, 01:46 PM
<i>: : I just got back from a business trip in Germany and there is as much speculation there as to what the new M3 engine will be as there is here in the USA. Bottom line is the E36 M3 is a MACHINE - Best sports car with a base stick under 40K period ! for how many years now?? All other cars can kiss my butt. Why are we all concerned with what they will do - you know its a BMW and will be the best. Just sit back and relax as the BEAST will be unleashed soon! You know its gonna be faster than the current one and will whip any S4 any day of the week on any surface any track...<br>: : Keep the faith boyz and gals.. Only time prevents us from sitting in one. BUD<br>: : PS: You know what i mean every morning when you wake up to go to work - start your engine on your M3 E36 and just smile as you take off .... Imagine the E46..<p>: I think part of the apprehension comes from the fact that the E36 is considered by most to be the best sports car of its type in the world. BMW carefully and cleverly gave us a car that's as quick to 60 mph as the one in Europe at a much lower price. Ok. So, now comes a new M3 with 100 more horses. My guess is that it will base sticker right around $50k, and will cost most of us around $55k equipped the way we want. I'm also guessing that the car will only be marginally quicker to 60; perhaps in the 5.3 - 5.4 range. The car will be heavier than ours. And will not have the same gearing which allows current american M3s to hit 60 in a time competitive with Europe...I dont care that the Euro version can out duel me above 100 mph, as the amount of time I spend there is negligible. The bottom line question is : 'is it worth $10 - $15 K more to have a car which is maybe 1-2/10 sec faster in the range I can enjoy it, and where we spend most of our time?' I think BMW has there hands full doing a better M3. How do you top perfection?!<p></i>

Bryan
10-04-1999, 06:42 PM
1-2/10 sec faster?? Give me a break! 100 HP increase with a NEGLIGABLE weight increase - this engine will NOT be much heavier than the current Euro 3.2L! 5.2 sec MAX is a good starting point, but I don't know what BMW will do since they probably don't want to bury the M5 - at least not right off the bat, even though they are different classes.

Bryan
10-04-1999, 06:45 PM
<i>: (theoretically speaking, of course) Let's get the E46 M3 and an S4 on Road Atlanta in a torrential downpour and see who's faster. You said any day of the week, on any surface, on any track. For all weather handling, I know which car I'd take...<p></i>

NB
10-04-1999, 08:56 PM
Out of the box, the M3 is a superior machine as far as handling goes. There's no doubt about that. Now once the tuners ramp up, not every S4 will be easy pickings. Hell, a really tuned A4 1.8tqms can give an M3 a hard time in all areas (PES supercharger, H&R coilovers, Vortrag brakes) for less money than a new M3. I just love the competition between two great automakers. Let the horsepower wars begin!

Beefer
10-05-1999, 08:31 AM
BMW will not raise the price by much. Think marketing people. New technology, aluminum engine (if applicable) and hot competition.<p>Do you really think BMW will discontinue a car for one year to come out with a vehicle that is 10k more and slower ??!!!!?<p>BMW is just like any company...they need to fight of competition and a marginal cost...PERIOD !<p>Cheers :)

Sub 5
10-05-1999, 08:46 AM
<i>: BMW will not raise the price by much. Think marketing people. New technology, aluminum engine (if applicable) and hot competition.<p>: Do you really think BMW will discontinue a car for one year to come out with a vehicle that is 10k more and slower ??!!!!?<p>: BMW is just like any company...they need to fight of competition and a marginal cost...PERIOD !<p>: Cheers :)<p><br>I do not think it is possible for the new M3 to go into sub - 5 second range. I would expect it to be around 5.4, I would be happy if it was 5.2 but no way they can make it lower then 5sec. How about the competition from the S4 in 0-60 you might ask... Well, even though similar 0-60 times I would expect it to easily bury the S4 in handling and other specs. Of course, there will still be an option of turbo or super charging the M3 which will definately take it under 5sec but that's another $5k...<br></i>

Fedup
10-05-1999, 09:25 AM
Shut up...now one knows about this car !<p>Unless you're a BMW engineer that's on his lunch break...give it a rest !!! You do not know what you're talking about...YES...accept it !<p>You haven't a bloody clue what is coming off those drafting tables.

speculation, idiot!
10-05-1999, 11:50 AM
<i>: Shut up...now one knows about this car !<p>: Unless you're a BMW engineer that's on his lunch break...give it a rest !!! You do not know what you're talking about...YES...accept it !<p>: You haven't a bloody clue what is coming off those drafting tables.<p></i>

Paul E
10-05-1999, 12:21 PM
<i>: 1-2/10 sec faster?? Give me a break! 100 HP increase with a NEGLIGABLE weight increase - this engine will NOT be much heavier than the current Euro 3.2L! 5.2 sec MAX is a good starting point, but I don't know what BMW will do since they probably don't want to bury the M5 - at least not right off the bat, even though they are different classes.<p></i> Well, if you consider that the current Euro M3 with 80+ HP runs roughly the same 0-60, then why would you assume that a heavier E46 with only 20 hp more would blow it away.??

Paul E
10-05-1999, 12:28 PM
<i>: BMW will not raise the price by much. Think marketing people. New technology, aluminum engine (if applicable) and hot competition.<p>: Do you really think BMW will discontinue a car for one year to come out with a vehicle that is 10k more and slower ??!!!!?<p>: BMW is just like any company...they need to fight of competition and a marginal cost...PERIOD !<p>: Cheers :)<p></i> Think people...If BMW could put out the Euro M3 for within $5K of the current American M3, dont you think they would have done it? Dont you have any idea how much more it costs to develop 2 different product lines? Their rationale all along for why there are 2 M3s is that they did not Feel the American market would pay the high price for the Euro M3, especially considering that in the operating range most of us drive in this country, the added cost would go into engine features we dont normally take advantage of. Its an Autoban burner.<p>So now, youre all hoping you'll be the first ones on your blocks, so youve convinced yourselves that you can get in on the ground floor for only $5K more than your current rides.....Dream On.<p>Its been oft stated that for them to sell the Euro M3 here, the price would have to be around $60K.<p>Get Real.

Bruce
10-05-1999, 01:09 PM
<i>: Think people...If BMW could put out the Euro M3 for within $5K of the current American M3, dont you think they would have done it? Dont you have any idea how much more it costs to develop 2 different product lines? Their rationale all along for why there are 2 M3s is that they did not Feel the American market would pay the high price for the Euro M3, especially considering that in the operating range most of us drive in this country, the added cost would go into engine features we dont normally take advantage of. Its an Autoban burner.</i><p>you are making the assumption that BMW was correct in saying the US market wouldn't buy a Euro spec E36 M3 in quantity (bad assumption, heck they didn't really want to bring ANY E36 M3 over here)<p><i>: So now, youre all hoping you'll be the first ones on your blocks, so youve convinced yourselves that you can get in on the ground floor for only $5K more than your current rides.....Dream On.</i><p>increased production leads to lower cost/unit...increased efficiency leads to lower cost per unit<p><i>: Its been oft stated that for them to sell the Euro M3 here, the price would have to be around $60K.</i><p>that was the E36 version...BMW will make up for lower profit margins by selling more M3s in the US (fact- the US makes up 80% of the world's M market)<p><i>: Get Real.</i><p>I am, why don't you? Pay for my E46 M3 base MSRP is under $45k? (Yeah I am that confident in that price with 340+ hp)

Idiot !!
10-05-1999, 01:47 PM
<i>: : Shut up...now one knows about this car !<p>: : Unless you're a BMW engineer that's on his lunch break...give it a rest !!! You do not know what you're talking about...YES...accept it !<p>: : You haven't a bloody clue what is coming off those drafting tables.<p></i>

Ray Koch
10-05-1999, 02:22 PM
<i>: : Think people...If BMW could put out the Euro M3 for within $5K of the current American M3, dont you think they would have done it? Dont you have any idea how much more it costs to develop 2 different product lines? Their rationale all along for why there are 2 M3s is that they did not Feel the American market would pay the high price for the Euro M3, especially considering that in the operating range most of us drive in this country, the added cost would go into engine features we dont normally take advantage of. Its an Autoban burner.<p>: you are making the assumption that BMW was correct in saying the US market wouldn't buy a Euro spec E36 M3 in quantity (bad assumption, heck they didn't really want to bring ANY E36 M3 over here)</i><p>That's right. I have not been particularly impressed by BMW marketing in the US. They seem to sell cars in spite of what they *think* Americans want. If it wasn't for BMWCCA we would have never seen a US E36 M3, which turned out to be a great success.<p><i>: : So now, youre all hoping you'll be the first ones on your blocks, so youve convinced yourselves that you can get in on the ground floor for only $5K more than your current rides.....Dream On.<p>: increased production leads to lower cost/unit...increased efficiency leads to lower cost per unit</i><p>Add to that much lower fixed to variable manufacturing costs plus larger (and cheaper) raw material buys. Plus the design of the engine has already been paid. And they will used much more efficient manufacturing techniques. I do production line manufacturing for a living and I can tell you if BMW can't make that engine for a lot cheaper than which the line they built over 9 years ago then they have serious problems.<p><br><i>: : Its been oft stated that for them to sell the Euro M3 here, the price would have to be around $60K.<p>: that was the E36 version...BMW will make up for lower profit margins by selling more M3s in the US (fact- the US makes up 80% of the world's M market)</i><p>As well as going to a world platform. Let's just hope their marketing arm doesn't insist that the car is made too soft because that's what they think we want.<p>: : Get Real.<p>: I am, why don't you? Pay for my E46 M3 base MSRP is under $45k? (Yeah I am that confident in that price with 340+ hp)<br></i><p>Every indication points to the fact that $45K is *the* target price. If they price it much higher than that the E46 M3 won't be the sales success that the E36 M3 was.

Andreas
10-05-1999, 03:40 PM
<i>: BMW will not raise the price by much. Think marketing people. New technology, aluminum engine (if applicable) and hot competition.<p>: Do you really think BMW will discontinue a car for one year to come out with a vehicle that is 10k more and slower ??!!!!?<p>: BMW is just like any company...they need to fight of competition and a marginal cost...PERIOD !<p>: Cheers :)<p></i>

Jim E.
10-05-1999, 05:49 PM
The BODY weight increase is rumored to be in the range of 300+ lbs. Why do you think BMW had so much trouble getting better performance figures over the euro E36 M3.<p>The issue is NOT engine weight.<p><i>: 1-2/10 sec faster?? Give me a break! 100 HP increase with a NEGLIGABLE weight increase - this engine will NOT be much heavier than the current Euro 3.2L! 5.2 sec MAX is a good starting point, but I don't know what BMW will do since they probably don't want to bury the M5 - at least not right off the bat, even though they are different classes.<p></i>

one (eom) Bruce
10-05-1999, 06:15 PM
<i>: The BODY weight increase is rumored to be in the range of 300+ lbs. Why do you think BMW had so much trouble getting better performance figures over the euro E36 M3.<br></i>

Den
10-06-1999, 03:28 AM
It's not unheard of for large corporations to sell a product at a loss to gain market share.<p>They might not go that far, but I'm sure BMW would reduce their profit margin in order to keep the M3 competetive.<p>Option A: Try to sell the M3 for $56k and lose market share.<p>Option B: Keep the E36 engine and be outperformed by the competition...and lose market share.<p>Option C: BMW do what they're good at and come out with more power at a competitive price.<p><br>Oh yeah, what about the M roadster? I guess it'll go for ~$60k with the new motor, and BMW will watch everyone buy Boxsters instead. <p>NOT.

SMcD
10-06-1999, 11:28 AM
<br>Couldn't some gearing changes in the 6 speed make a large of a 0-60 difference?<p><i>: : 1-2/10 sec faster?? Give me a break! 100 HP increase with a NEGLIGABLE weight increase - this engine will NOT be much heavier than the current Euro 3.2L! 5.2 sec MAX is a good starting point, but I don't know what BMW will do since they probably don't want to bury the M5 - at least not right off the bat, even though they are different classes.<p>: Well, if you consider that the current Euro M3 with 80+ HP runs roughly the same 0-60, then why would you assume that a heavier E46 with only 20 hp more would blow it away.?? <p></i>

Jim E.
10-06-1999, 02:01 PM
<i>: : The BODY weight increase is rumored to be in the range of 300+ lbs. Why do you think BMW had so much trouble getting better performance figures over the euro E36 M3.<p></i>

Quattro rules
10-09-1999, 08:23 PM
<i>!<br></i>


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