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Bruce
10-11-1999, 03:45 PM
The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>Let this post end the discussion.

Cool-M3
10-11-1999, 03:54 PM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Bruce
10-11-1999, 03:57 PM
.

Thomas
10-11-1999, 04:31 PM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Faris
10-11-1999, 04:52 PM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Andreas
10-11-1999, 04:57 PM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Bruce
10-11-1999, 05:02 PM
.

dramatic, but is agressive as hell
10-11-1999, 05:38 PM
<i>: : The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: : BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: : Let this post end the discussion.<p><p><p><br></i>

Mark G
10-11-1999, 07:18 PM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. <p></i><br>...or the Hartge, A.C. Schnitzer, Hammann, et al. versions? If BMW won't do it, there will be plenty of aftermarket companies that will, and I bet they'll be available in the first year the car is available! It's a no brainer--we already know the engine will fit--all it will take is some $$$$.<p>Ok, I know it's not what you meant, but you did say never (ninety-nine times).<p>: )<p>Mark G<br>

US? :P (eom) Bruce
10-11-1999, 07:41 PM
<i>: ...or the Hartge, A.C. Schnitzer, Hammann, et al. versions</i>

collyer
10-11-1999, 07:55 PM
<br>: ...or the Hartge, A.C. Schnitzer, Hammann, et al. versions? <p></i>Exactly! BMW E46 M3 will never be a V8. ANYBODY can stuff one in it. But it will NOT be an<br>M3. Hell, there are a few M5 V12 cars floating around Germany, but they were pre-prototype mules,<br>and will never be built in numbers. So you are both right. There WILL be M3 cars with V8s in them<br>(voiding any connection w/ M & BMW), and there will be true M3s with BMW sixes on board.<br>there's a difference

Jim Ross
10-11-1999, 09:21 PM
<i>:It will be made available after the other versions come out (coupe and convertable). You can verify this through any of the Euoropean car magazines and I believe Car and Driver will come out with an early news version. No plans for US imports. Perhaps Canada will get them though. -Jim<p><br>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Bruce
10-11-1999, 09:42 PM
.

Mark G
10-11-1999, 10:49 PM
I bet they will be available to the well-heeled enthusiast. And...Hey!...I thought you said this discussion was over...you're not supposed to be chiming in anymore about this...I was hoping to get the last word!<p>: )<p>Mark G

Bruce
10-11-1999, 11:29 PM
<i>: I bet they will be available to the well-heeled enthusiast. And...Hey!...I thought you said this discussion was over...you're not supposed to be chiming in anymore about this...I was hoping to get the last word!</i><p>LOL <----last word, hehehe

Evan. ;-)
10-11-1999, 11:33 PM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Evan...
10-11-1999, 11:36 PM
<i>: : The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: : BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: : Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

for the M3 (eom) Bruce
10-11-1999, 11:43 PM
.

Mark G
10-11-1999, 11:44 PM
...so I'm ending it now.<p>; )<p>p.s. I win!

Jim
10-12-1999, 01:05 AM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>Are you saying the M3 won't have a V8? Just kidding!

AC
10-12-1999, 09:53 AM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Bruce
10-12-1999, 09:56 AM
.

..hate 'stupid' rumors.......AC
10-12-1999, 12:09 PM
<i>: .<p></i>

Jim Ross
10-12-1999, 01:00 PM
<i>: The question is will BMW still call the E46 V-8 an M3? In that respects you may be right, the M3 will never have a V-8 but the more powerful E46 will get one to keep up with Benz and Audi. Jim<p><p>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Hock
10-12-1999, 01:02 PM
<i>: <p>They are bigger and much more powerfull, and huge line of cars and options, and very high end.<p></i>

Ray Koch
10-12-1999, 01:08 PM
Any mention of some type of Lightweight varient that was rumored earlier?

Bruce
10-12-1999, 02:02 PM
<i>: Any mention of some type of Lightweight varient that was rumored earlier?</i><p>I haven't asked, but with a miserable a failure as the 95 E36 M3 LTW was, don't count on it...dealers asked BMW not to make another car like that because they sold so poorly (nearly 50k for a car without A/C- doesn't sell too well in Texas)..I have heard of at least 2 that sold for $32k NEW- that's a whopping $17k under MSRP

Bruce
10-12-1999, 02:03 PM
the V8 Merc has been out for years and the E36 Euro already kicks it's ***

Bruce
10-12-1999, 02:05 PM
in fact I was asked by somebody at BMW to STOP the stupid rumors

Andreas
10-12-1999, 03:09 PM
my dear friend,<p>Once you are in Europe, you will see that every BMW "M" car is more powerful than the direct competitor from Merc "AMG". Get real... BMW has - at least in Europe - the better name in motorsport than Mercedes.<p>Next year BMW will return to Formula 1. I bet in 3-4 years the BMW F1 car is better than any Merc in Formula 1.<p>Cheers<br>Andreas

will dominate.....AC
10-12-1999, 05:26 PM
<i>: my dear friend,<p>: Once you are in Europe, you will see that every BMW "M" car is more powerful than the direct competitor from Merc "AMG". Get real... BMW has - at least in Europe - the better name in motorsport than Mercedes.<p>: Next year BMW will return to Formula 1. I bet in 3-4 years the BMW F1 car is better than any Merc in Formula 1.<p>: Cheers<br>: Andreas<p></i>

Andreas
10-12-1999, 05:39 PM
<i>: : my dear friend,<p>: : Once you are in Europe, you will see that every BMW "M" car is more powerful than the direct competitor from Merc "AMG". Get real... BMW has - at least in Europe - the better name in motorsport than Mercedes.<p>: : Next year BMW will return to Formula 1. I bet in 3-4 years the BMW F1 car is better than any Merc in Formula 1.<p>: : Cheers<br>: : Andreas<p></i>

Although he's right about no V8(e)
10-12-1999, 05:52 PM
<i>: The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Bruce
10-12-1999, 05:55 PM
.

one yet knows about (e)
10-12-1999, 05:58 PM
<i>: .<p></i>

AK
10-12-1999, 05:59 PM
<i>: : : my dear friend,<p>: : : Once you are in Europe, you will see that every BMW "M" car is more powerful than the direct competitor from Merc "AMG". Get real... BMW has - at least in Europe - the better name in motorsport than Mercedes.<p>: : : Next year BMW will return to Formula 1. I bet in 3-4 years the BMW F1 car is better than any Merc in Formula 1.<p>: : : Cheers<br>: : : Andreas<p></i>

AvusBlue
10-12-1999, 05:59 PM
<i>: : The E46 M3 will never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never ever have a V8. Period end of story. It will have a 6 (specs yet to be released). <p>: : BMW NA met with the NJ chapter a couple weeks ago and made this point VERY VERY VERY clear.<p>: : Let this post end the discussion.<p></i>

Bruce
10-12-1999, 06:07 PM
i have told many many things before they were made public<p>you can check the Z3 and some of the other boards for info...my track record speaks volumes<p>not cocky, just stating the facts

mk
10-12-1999, 07:18 PM
new E46 M3 now?<p>there's nothing you've said so far that isn't a well speculated rumor.<p>how about atleast one (1) strong fact that no one knows about?<p>mK

Brann
10-12-1999, 07:43 PM
I don't even like BMWs, but when I need to know something about an upcoming model (even something as minor as a paint color change) I know Bruce is the man to talk to. I can't recall a time when he's been wrong. It's amazing how you'll attack a guy who's simply trying to curb a lot of idle speculation. Bruce has told me (and I'm deadly sure about this) that he knows people inside BMWNA. When you guys can truthfully say the same thing and have every one of your predictions be spot-on, then you can talk. Until then, just back off and listen to what he says.

mk
10-12-1999, 07:59 PM
All Bruce has said that a E46 M3 will have a 3.4L I6 making 340-350HP...That's pretty believable<p>I can read that **** in some Euro mag.<p>Can Bruce say something DECISIVE regarding other factors?<p>I can sit here all day and guess..Hell, we can all be "getting info from BMWNA".

Bruce
10-12-1999, 09:37 PM
<i>: All Bruce has said that a E46 M3 will have a 3.4L I6 making 340-350HP...That's pretty believable<p>: I can read that **** in some Euro mag.</i><p>yes, but <strong?when</strong> did i forst say that? 2 years ago? yes<p></i>: Can Bruce say something DECISIVE regarding other factors?</i><p>what exactly are you looking for?<p><i>: I can sit here all day and guess..Hell, we can all be "getting info from BMWNA".</i><p>yes, but in my case it is true

Bud
10-12-1999, 10:09 PM
This sort of condescending, know-it-all, bandwidth-wasting post marks its poster as a ******* wanker, but that's not new information. A little web research reveals him to be a mook who can't keep a job, can't find a job (in this economy!), lives off mommy and daddy, can't get into a quality MBA school, is a Mroadster-driving M3 wannabe, etc. And I don't mean this in a nice way. Shut the **** up!

Preston
10-12-1999, 10:25 PM
<i>: This sort of condescending, know-it-all, bandwidth-wasting post marks its poster as a ******* wanker, but that's not new information.</i><p>Seems like your post was really informative, helpful and bandwidth conserving also.<p><i>A little web research reveals him to be a mook who can't keep a job, can't find a job (in this economy!), lives off mommy and daddy, can't get into a quality MBA school, is a Mroadster-driving M3 wannabe, etc. </i><p>Good boy, you've done your research. Now can you explain to everyone the situations surrounding all the events you described above or do you merely just want to spout off because of some personal vendetta?<p> <i>And I don't mean this in a nice way.</i> <p>It was tough to guess, but I actually figured that out on my own.<p><i>Shut the **** up!</i><p>Is this Bruce II who was being such a PIA about not using a different nick? Or just some other anonymous SOB who enjoys creating noise around here?<p>Best Regards,<br>Preston<p><br>

Brann
10-12-1999, 10:38 PM
Bruce said long ago (since I was looking at purchasing an M3 about 1 1/2 years ago) that the engine would be a 3.4L In-line six. He said that; even when others were trying to claim that it would have a V6. <p>BTW mk, Bruce has posted on a lot of other boards about model changes three to six months ahead of time, even things as minor as color changes (complete with names) for the Z3. He also spilled about the Z3's rear-end freshening four months before it was officially known. When you have a track record like Bruce's I'll take you seriously. For now, you're just a poseur.

mk
10-12-1999, 10:50 PM
<b>: Bruce said long ago (since I was looking at purchasing an M3 about 1 1/2 years ago) that the engine would be a 3.4L In-line six. He said that; even when others were trying to claim that it would have a V6. <br></b><p>The chances of BMW making a V6 are as slim as BMW sticking a V8 into the M3<p><b>: BTW mk, Bruce has posted on a lot of other boards about model changes three to six months ahead of time, even things as minor as color changes (complete with names) for the Z3. He also spilled about the Z3's rear-end freshening four months before it was officially known. When you have a track record like Bruce's I'll take you seriously. For now, you're just a poseur.<br></b><p>Poseur? as in trying to pretend to be someone?<p>I have yet to see Bruce say anything right on the money with complete accuracy. <p>Let's face it, we're all engineers at BMW AG that are on our lunch break and spilling important info. eh?

AlexB
10-12-1999, 11:15 PM
One simple question: If the M3 came with the 400bhp V8, who in the hell would buy the M5?

exists (e)
10-12-1999, 11:23 PM
<i>: One simple question: If the M3 came with the 400bhp V8, who in the hell would buy the M5?<p></i>

Mark G
10-12-1999, 11:39 PM
<i>: One simple question: If the M3 came with the 400bhp V8, who in the hell would buy the M5?<p></i><br>I wouldn't buy an M5 anyway. Who wants a 4000-lb sedan--not me. But I'd definitely scoop up a 3200 lb V8 M3 if given the chance. <p>As I see it, BMW will eventually have to go to a V8 to keep up with the competition (maybe next generation?), unless they redesign their I-6 to allow larger displacement. While the M3 is not a drag racer, I personally would hate to get a new M3 and know that a high schooler in his Camaro can better me in a stoplight hop, or in any possible test of automotive performance. Will there be a V8 Jetta? What about the upcoming V8 NSX? Or the 405hp Corvette? Hell, even the next generation Mustang is rumored to be getting a larger 5.4L V8 which will likely be faster than a 350hp I-6 powered M3. Oh well, such is life...I guess I'll have to transplant a V8 myself, or get a supercharger.<p>Just more rants,<br>Mark G<br>Still on the list<br>

Gilbert
10-13-1999, 07:58 AM
I was at the NJ chapter meeting at BMWNA. The M brand manager stated definitely that the car will have an inline six. Period. Not a rumor.

JS
10-13-1999, 10:05 AM
There was a blurb in Autoweek a few weeks ago about a new touring car series in Germany for V8s (spec engine?). Anybody know about this?

Brann
10-13-1999, 11:28 AM
Let's just let this whole thing die a quick death, okay? I don't wanna defend the guy anymore, and engaging in a flame war is unproductive. Let's just drop it.<p><br>But he has been accurate, at least when I've been paying attention.

NB
10-13-1999, 02:19 PM
At least, not yet. This has been discussed at length on VWVortex. The 'spy pic' that the car mags kept showing was nothing more than the test mule for VW's new TDI racing program.<p>I'd be very glad if the M3 got a V8. It'd mean that Audi might import the RS4 (380 bhp, quattro, avant body style, 0.92g on the skidpad, 0-60 in 4.6 sec, 60-0 in 109 ft.) and finally give other companies something to hide from. I'd love it if the highest performance cars came from two of the best automakers in the world (BMW and Audi). Unfortunately, without outside competition, neither of those cars seems likely. Maybe both companies'll recognize the threat that the dinosaurs (domestics) and the rice-rockets (Skyline, NSX) are to their sales.

Brian
10-13-1999, 03:51 PM
The only way an M3 V8 would be a competitive response to the C43 would be for the "bragging rights" marketing aspect. However, it would be pointless to put a V8 in the M3 for this reason because by the time the new M3 is in production, the C43 will be out of production. The C43's replacement (for model year 2001) will have a Supercharged V6 with about 320hp/340lb-ft.

Jesse
10-13-1999, 04:49 PM
<p><i>: the V8 Merc has been out for years and the E36 Euro already kicks it's ***<p></i>

Mark G
10-14-1999, 02:24 PM
I think that even a V8 M3 would have its hands full with a CLK55. Expect 0-60 around 4.6, 1/4 mi in 13.1 or so, based on the performance of the heavier E55, which will far surpass the numbers posted by the E46 M3 with an I-6. Of course, the CLK55 will likely cost >$65K, but it will outrun corvettes and 911s all day (ok, well maybe not in the curves).

Jack
10-20-1999, 12:59 AM
<i>: I think that even a V8 M3 would have its hands full with a CLK55. Expect 0-60 around 4.6, 1/4 mi in 13.1 or so, based on the performance of the heavier E55, which will far surpass the numbers posted by the E46 M3 with an I-6. Of course, the CLK55 will likely cost >$65K, but it will outrun corvettes and 911s all day (ok, well maybe not in the curves).<p></i>

Joergen
10-20-1999, 08:42 AM
<i>: One simple question: If the M3 came with the 400bhp V8, who in the hell would buy the M5?<p></i>

Joergen
10-20-1999, 08:43 AM
<i>: One simple question: If the M3 came with the 400bhp V8, who in the hell would buy the M5?<p></i>

Mark G
10-20-1999, 11:47 PM
...who would get a Jaguar XKR or an SC400. Maybe someone who was considering a 911 but would prefer the luxury/grand-touring on a Merc. The base CLK is $45K, and $65K is an estimate based on the price increase of the E55 over the E430. I think the real question is : who would buy a $60K ML55? Mercedes doesn't seem too concerned, and now they make the fastest minivan (sic) on the planet.<p>Mark G


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