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collyer
11-02-1999, 09:30 PM
I don't know why most of you people out there still believe that the local dealers know ANYTHING more than we do about the new M3. They DON'T. We see more pics & specs here than dealers could dream of. Prices? Sure, sticker MIGHT be under $50k, but do you think the dlrs will sell it for list? RRRRRight! Every US M5 ('99/'00)is already sold, and less than 20 have been delivered to date. How fast do you think the M3 will go(sell)? And HP? Come ON, guys, EuroMs have had 321 for 3yrs, US gets 245 - and you think 345-350 isn't enough? Flame fodder. My 9yr old M5 has 330+hp, and only a brash Vette or M3 driver dares challenge me, and loses poorly. Anything over 300hp is quite fun. Face it, the E36 M3 is an excellent car, the E46 will be more, but it may NOT be better. Let's enjoy the speculative wait, and compare notes later. Carpe Diem, tomorrow may not be what today is...

PeteS
11-02-1999, 11:28 PM
<i>: I don't know why most of you people out there still believe that the local dealers know ANYTHING more than we do about the new M3. They DON'T. We see more pics & specs here than dealers could dream of. Prices? Sure, sticker MIGHT be under $50k, but do you think the dlrs will sell it for list? RRRRRight! Every US M5 ('99/'00)is already sold, and less than 20 have been delivered to date. How fast do you think the M3 will go(sell)? And HP? Come ON, guys, EuroMs have had 321 for 3yrs, US gets 245 - and you think 345-350 isn't enough? Flame fodder. My 9yr old M5 has 330+hp, and only a brash Vette or M3 driver dares challenge me, and loses poorly. Anything over 300hp is quite fun. Face it, the E36 M3 is an excellent car, the E46 will be more, but it may NOT be better. Let's enjoy the speculative wait, and compare notes later. Carpe Diem, tomorrow may not be what today is...<p></i><p>M5's are selling for MSRP. Why do think M3's won't?<p>

JS
11-02-1999, 11:35 PM
BMW does not allow their dealership to sell new cars above MSRP. Neither does Mercedes. Audi, however, lets their dealer market-adjust their prices.<p><i>: I don't know why most of you people out there still believe that the local dealers know ANYTHING more than we do about the new M3. They DON'T. We see more pics & specs here than dealers could dream of. Prices? Sure, sticker MIGHT be under $50k, but do you think the dlrs will sell it for list? RRRRRight! Every US M5 ('99/'00)is already sold, and less than 20 have been delivered to date. How fast do you think the M3 will go(sell)? And HP? Come ON, guys, EuroMs have had 321 for 3yrs, US gets 245 - and you think 345-350 isn't enough? Flame fodder. My 9yr old M5 has 330+hp, and only a brash Vette or M3 driver dares challenge me, and loses poorly. Anything over 300hp is quite fun. Face it, the E36 M3 is an excellent car, the E46 will be more, but it may NOT be better. Let's enjoy the speculative wait, and compare notes later. Carpe Diem, tomorrow may not be what today is...<p></i>

NB
11-03-1999, 12:25 AM
I have to agree with collyer...M5s may be selling for MSRP, but the market for M3s is much, much broader. BMW doesn't officially allow gouging, but they can't prevent privately owned dealers from doing it initially. Can't make blanket statements about pricing when it comes to something like cars.

JG
11-03-1999, 12:32 AM
that if I want and M5 in a month I can have it for $6,000 over sticker or I can order one and get it in 5 or 6 months- I don't care, because I'm not really amazed with the M5 (I know I'm in the minority on that one)- I think its worth every penny, but it doesn't excite me that much. Anyhow, my dealer will not take any deposits on the new M3, and when they do- all preorders will be at sticker.

collyer
11-03-1999, 08:19 AM
<i><p><br>: M5's are selling for MSRP. Why do think M3's won't?<p>At $70,000+ each, there are less M5 (potential) owners out there (look at '91 & '93 sales figures), and yet MANY M5 pre orders were above list. Now look at all the M3 sales for '95-'99, Whoa! BMW is saying CASH COW. How many boy racers bought M3s because they saw it in M/T,C&D,R&T,etc.? Oh yeah, at <$50,000, the M3 will sell just as fast as the E36. And my swami says that there will NOT be a sedan E46 M3, but MAYBE a touring (europe only). Convertible-yes. Now maybe some evos will have 4.4l V8s in '01, but not the US. I'm just following the line of trends that BMW has created (for themselves), and as always, BMW innovates slowly, with few surprises,and few missteps. Isn't being a bimmer head fun? :^)<br></i>

Jason L2
11-03-1999, 08:53 AM
Hey where in the USA does the M3 come with 245 horsepower? Since 1995 we all have been stuck with the good ol' 240bhp engine, must be thou makest thy home in a better part of the US... <br>And as for the dealers, no most don't know what on Earth they are talking about, but i DO know that my dealer will NOT sell any new vehicle over sticker. The owner does not believe in that practice. And bring your M5 to upstate NY someday, I'll give you a length to make it fair...<p>99M3/2

KJK
11-03-1999, 04:47 PM
<i><br>: <br>: : M5's are selling for MSRP. Why do think M3's won't?<p>: At $70,000+ each, there are less M5 (potential) owners out there (look at '91 & '93 sales figures), and yet MANY M5 pre orders were above list. Now look at all the M3 sales for '95-'99, Whoa! BMW is saying CASH COW. How many boy racers bought M3s because they saw it in M/T,C&D,R&T,etc.? Oh yeah, at <$50,000, the M3 will sell just as fast as the E36. And my swami says that there will NOT be a sedan E46 M3, but MAYBE a touring (europe only). Convertible-yes. Now maybe some evos will have 4.4l V8s in '01, but not the US. I'm just following the line of trends that BMW has created (for themselves), and as always, BMW innovates slowly, with few surprises,and few missteps. Isn't being a bimmer head fun? :^)<p></i>More than a few M3's have been humbled by M5's they thought they would run away from. If he gives you a length, you will have 3 vs. 2 lengths at 120.

collter
11-03-1999, 05:46 PM
And bring your M5 to upstate NY someday, I'll give you a length to make it fair...<p><br></i>Uhh, 240,245 who's counting? Better yet, take off your snow tires and come to Dallas, the weather's great, and there are Autobahn-type roads that are straight and flat for MILES. Boring, yes-<br>fast, YES. I've run against modified M3s out in the country for 5 mile 1 ways, and after 100mph, my car is GOOOOOOONE. Dinan chip stops me @ about 162mph, and that's with the wind. But jeez, that E46 would look good in my garage (better build it bigger).<br>

Bruce
11-03-1999, 08:19 PM
<i>: And bring your M5 to upstate NY someday, I'll give you a length to make it fair...<p>: <br>: Uhh, 240,245 who's counting? Better yet, take off your snow tires and come to Dallas, the weather's great, and there are Autobahn-type roads that are straight and flat for MILES. Boring, yes-<br>: fast, YES. I've run against modified M3s out in the country for 5 mile 1 ways, and after 100mph, my car is GOOOOOOONE. Dinan chip stops me @ about 162mph, and that's with the wind. But jeez, that E46 would look good in my garage (better build it bigger).</i><p>Hmmm, why don't you even go to drivers education events at TWS? I would love to see what an M5 can do. Next one is at the BMW club race Nov 20-21. Entry forms at the Houston CCA website.

collyer
11-03-1999, 09:21 PM
<p>: Hmmm, why don't you even go to drivers education events at TWS? I would love to see what an M5 can do. Next one is at the BMW club race Nov 20-21. Entry forms at the Houston CCA website.<p></i>Wot's the URL? I probably can't make those dates, but I wouldn't mind some fun track time. And I could sure use some driver's edumication. Is that the track outside of Bryan, or do you mean the BIG track where BMW had their<br>ultimate driving event?

collyer
11-03-1999, 09:31 PM
<br>: More than a few M3's have been humbled by M5's they thought they would run away from. If he gives you a length, you will have 3 vs. 2 lengths at 120.<p></i>OK, but should I fill it full of groceries, or <br>put my bikes up on the roof rack? :^} KJK- Do you think it would be smart to put an E36 M motor in my E30 M3C, or a 3.6 M5 lump? I'm tempted to really make that car scary fast, yet still daily driveable (but wouldn't). Hate to change a rare car like that though. Thoughts?

ww
11-03-1999, 09:39 PM
<i>: I don't know why most of you people out there still believe that the local dealers know ANYTHING more than we do about the new M3. <p>Read the November Roundel - '00 M3 340hp 6cyl.

Bruce
11-03-1999, 09:39 PM
<i>: Wot's the URL? I probably can't make those dates, but I wouldn't mind some fun track time. And I could sure use some driver's edumication. Is that the track outside of Bryan, or do you mean the BIG track where BMW had their<br>: ultimate driving event?</i><p><br><a href="http://www.houston-bmwcca.com/">here's the Houston website</a><p>i am talking the track just south of college station (basically bryan)

collyer
11-03-1999, 09:44 PM
<p>Thanks, Bruce<br>: i am talking the track just south of college station (basically bryan)<p></i>

Bruce
11-03-1999, 11:30 PM
<a href="http://platz.com/pca/lonestar/highspee.htm">try this too</a>

KJK
11-04-1999, 02:34 PM
<i>: <br>: : More than a few M3's have been humbled by M5's they thought they would run away from. If he gives you a length, you will have 3 vs. 2 lengths at 120.<p>: OK, but should I fill it full of groceries, or <br>: put my bikes up on the roof rack? :^} KJK- Do you think it would be smart to put an E36 M motor in my E30 M3C, or a 3.6 M5 lump? I'm tempted to really make that car scary fast, yet still daily driveable (but wouldn't). Hate to change a rare car like that though. Thoughts? <p></i>Full of groceries and the dog along for the ride. I have seen an E30M3 somewhere with an S38 in it. Can't remember where? If you have a convertible in good condition, I would leave it unless you plan on keeping the car. Then do what makes you happy. I would say an E36 M motor would be cheaper to buy and if you post to the UCC Digest I am sure you can find someone that has done it. You also need to check on the weight of each of the engines. The S38 would surely make it scream though. You will pay at least $8000 for a rebuilt one v. $5,995 for the E36 M3. (e.g. Bavarian Engine Exchange, 916-638-8569)

KJK
11-04-1999, 02:34 PM
<i>: <br>: : More than a few M3's have been humbled by M5's they thought they would run away from. If he gives you a length, you will have 3 vs. 2 lengths at 120.<p>: OK, but should I fill it full of groceries, or <br>: put my bikes up on the roof rack? :^} KJK- Do you think it would be smart to put an E36 M motor in my E30 M3C, or a 3.6 M5 lump? I'm tempted to really make that car scary fast, yet still daily driveable (but wouldn't). Hate to change a rare car like that though. Thoughts? <p></i>Full of groceries and the dog along for the ride. I have seen an E30M3 somewhere with an S38 in it. Can't remember where? If you have a convertible in good condition, I would leave it unless you plan on keeping the car. Then do what makes you happy. I would say an E36 M motor would be cheaper to buy and if you post to the UCC Digest I am sure you can find someone that has done it. You also need to check on the weight of each of the engines. The S38 would surely make it scream though. You will pay at least $8000 for a rebuilt one v. $5,995 for the E36 M3. (e.g. Bavarian Engine Exchange, 916-638-8569)

Bassem
11-04-1999, 07:23 PM
Wanted to correct you about one thing. Most M5s are not really "sold". They will be out of the Dealer's hands but not sold. I know a guy in my chapters CCA that has bought from the three dealers in the area the first M5s that came in. He published in the area newsletter that he was willing to sell them fo rthe highest bidder. Friggin jerkoff. <p>My point is...if you WANT a car, you can always have it. Money is the key.<p>Bassem

Anthony
11-04-1999, 09:10 PM
<i>: BMW does not allow their dealership to sell new cars above MSRP. Neither does Mercedes. Audi, however, lets their dealer market-adjust their prices.<p>: : I don't know why most of you people out there still believe that the local dealers know ANYTHING more than we do about the new M3. They DON'T. We see more pics & specs here than dealers could dream of. Prices? Sure, sticker MIGHT be under $50k, but do you think the dlrs will sell it for list? RRRRRight! Every US M5 ('99/'00)is already sold, and less than 20 have been delivered to date. How fast do you think the M3 will go(sell)? And HP? Come ON, guys, EuroMs have had 321 for 3yrs, US gets 245 - and you think 345-350 isn't enough? Flame fodder. My 9yr old M5 has 330+hp, and only a brash Vette or M3 driver dares challenge me, and loses poorly. Anything over 300hp is quite fun. Face it, the E36 M3 is an excellent car, the E46 will be more, but it may NOT be better. Let's enjoy the speculative wait, and compare notes later. Carpe Diem, tomorrow may not be what today is...<p></i>

12434
11-04-1999, 09:10 PM
<i>: : BMW does not allow their dealership to sell new cars above MSRP. Neither does Mercedes. Audi, however, lets their dealer market-adjust their prices.<p>: : : I don't know why most of you people out there still believe that the local dealers know ANYTHING more than we do about the new M3. They DON'T. We see more pics & specs here than dealers could dream of. Prices? Sure, sticker MIGHT be under $50k, but do you think the dlrs will sell it for list? RRRRRight! Every US M5 ('99/'00)is already sold, and less than 20 have been delivered to date. How fast do you think the M3 will go(sell)? And HP? Come ON, guys, EuroMs have had 321 for 3yrs, US gets 245 - and you think 345-350 isn't enough? Flame fodder. My 9yr old M5 has 330+hp, and only a brash Vette or M3 driver dares challenge me, and loses poorly. Anything over 300hp is quite fun. Face it, the E36 M3 is an excellent car, the E46 will be more, but it may NOT be better. Let's enjoy the speculative wait, and compare notes later. Carpe Diem, tomorrow may not be what today is...<p></i>

collyer
11-05-1999, 08:07 AM
<i>: Wanted to correct you about one thing. Most M5s are not really "sold". They will be out of the Dealer's hands but not sold. I know a guy in my chapters CCA that has bought from the three dealers in the area the first M5s that came in. He published in the area newsletter that he was willing to sell them fo rthe highest bidder. Friggin jerkoff. <p>: My point is...if you WANT a car, you can always have it. Money is the key.<p>: Bassem<p></i>I agree completely. And the same thing will happen w/ the E46 ///M, which means few people will get a new M3 for list. Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but IMHO, we're (yes, I'm considering it!)going to pay at least 52 LARGE for it off the dlr's floor. Just a guess. Damn. My '91 M5 wasn't much more than that new.

collyer
11-05-1999, 08:20 AM
<i><p>: Full of groceries and the dog along for the ride. I have seen an E30M3 somewhere with an S38 in it. Can't remember where? If you have a convertible in good condition, I would leave it unless you plan on keeping the car. Then do what makes you happy. I would say an E36 M motor would be cheaper to buy and if you post to the UCC Digest I am sure you can find someone that has done it. You also need to check on the weight of each of the engines. The S38 would surely make it scream though. You will pay at least $8000 for a rebuilt one v. $5,995 for the E36 M3. (e.g. Bavarian Engine Exchange, 916-638-8569)<p>Thanks so much. I think I'm waxing about the motor, though. If I don't keep the E30, it will be hard to sell, but it's SO much fun to cruise w/ the top down and have a 220hp go-kart underneath. I think there's only 2 others in the US, so maybe I won't mess with it. I already have enough problems w/ BMW dlrs even servicing the car. So, you thinking of E46 M3 and losing the E34? I think the E34 is a keeper, we'll NEVER see another brute like it. BUT, the E46 will be a tech marvel, and probably as fast (gasp!) as a chipped E34 M5.<br>Choices, choices... <br></i>

Mike
11-07-1999, 10:52 PM
Hey, Intresting site here, just found it. I am a salesmen at a BMW center, some of what you say is true, and some is rumer. Your right, BMW does not allow any pricing over M.S.R.P. The M5 is sold well into the future (all at M.S.R.P.) with us about 2 years. M3's, (also M.S.R.P.) we have orders on 3 so far, one from over a year ago. As for M3 specs, we dont have anything more than rumers. BMW has not givin us anything official. Should be some time next year, and over 300 HP. No plans for a 4 door. At this point in time, we can not get production schedules from BMW. I only tell my clients the truth, and I if I don't have all the INFO I tell them that also. The simple truth is always the best. Feel free to E-Mail me, wildbahn@voyager.net<br>Thanks, Mike

Mike Lung
11-09-1999, 04:03 AM
It seems to me that it just depends on the dealer. Here in Silicon Valley, I've seen M5s go for 15-50% over MSRP. If the dealer wants to make money(I would), they'll charge as much as people are willing to pay. People in Silicon Valley have more money than God so the dealers would be STUPID not to charge over MSRP as much as they can. I mean, people are in business to make as much money as possible right? As long as the customers don't complain, why not charge big time? So I'm willing to bet the new M3s here will go for something close to $60K seeing M5s go for as much as $120K. And that is exactly why I'm waiting a few years.<p><i>: I don't know why most of you people out there still believe that the local dealers know ANYTHING more than we do about the new M3. They DON'T. We see more pics & specs here than dealers could dream of. Prices? Sure, sticker MIGHT be under $50k, but do you think the dlrs will sell it for list? RRRRRight! Every US M5 ('99/'00)is already sold, and less than 20 have been delivered to date. How fast do you think the M3 will go(sell)? And HP? Come ON, guys, EuroMs have had 321 for 3yrs, US gets 245 - and you think 345-350 isn't enough? Flame fodder. My 9yr old M5 has 330+hp, and only a brash Vette or M3 driver dares challenge me, and loses poorly. Anything over 300hp is quite fun. Face it, the E36 M3 is an excellent car, the E46 will be more, but it may NOT be better. Let's enjoy the speculative wait, and compare notes later. Carpe Diem, tomorrow may not be what today is...<p></i>


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