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///Pete
09-11-2000, 12:46 AM
Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you!

Mike
09-11-2000, 03:28 AM
I can't wait for my M3, but many of this message board are the kings of wishful thinking when it comes to performance. People like Andreas are attempting to place the M3 in a class it simply can not compete in. Maybe there is something in the drinking water over there :)

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 09:25 AM
<i><br>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p></i><br>

ChrisW
09-11-2000, 09:43 AM
Also keep in mind a good modded M3 has the potential to be a nice rocket. Will it best a stock C5? Maybe! Will it best a ZO6? Not likley!<p>But it would give many a V8 cars a run for its money with good mod's.<p>then again, who's goin to mod their new 48 to 55K M3?!? Hardley anyone for the next 3 to 5 years!

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 10:06 AM
I agree with what you're saying however the C5s, Z06s and "any" other car can be modded too. Any car can be modded!<p>It would best to discuss the M3 in stock form and compare it, if desired, to other stock cars.<p>Bob ///M3 <p><br><i><br>Also keep in mind a good modded M3 has the potential to be a nice rocket. Will it best a stock C5? Maybe! Will it best a ZO6? Not likley!<p>But it would give many a V8 cars a run for its money with good mod's.<p>then again, who's goin to mod their new 48 to 55K M3?!? Hardley anyone for the next 3 to 5 years!<p></i><br>

coky
09-11-2000, 10:07 AM
for some reason, we have no trouble poking fun at s4's. the "soft" ride. the heavy weight.<p>but when it comes to the m3, we all bow our heads in prostration.<p>when, in reality, at this point, i'd rather deal with an s4 because it has more torque and quattro: at the same weight.<p>

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 10:24 AM
<i><br>for some reason, we have no trouble poking fun at s4's. the "soft" ride. the heavy weight.<p>but when it comes to the m3, we all bow our heads in prostration.<p>when, in reality, at this point, i'd rather deal with an s4 because it has more torque and quattro: at the same weight.<p></i><br>

JMS
09-11-2000, 10:38 AM
You are talking straight line performance. It's all in the person behind the wheel. Do a track day and you'll be suprised to see a four banger E30 M3 pass you in a blink of an eye. Stop reading magazines and learn how to drive the vehicle in your garage. All comments and opinions welcome.<p>JMS <br>99 DINAN M3

coky
09-11-2000, 10:42 AM
and see that the same brilliant driver will realize faster lap times in a pure sports car than in a sporty luxo. car.<p>i understand that there are always better drivers. that's moot.<p>what also is moot is that, in fact, most hardcore racers, i will bet, would prefer the e30 and (heaven forbid!), even the e36m3 over the latest iteration.<p>to racers, weight is the enemy because it affects braking, acceleration and handling. <p>as someone purporting to be a hardcore racer, i'm sure that you would agree.

stanley
09-11-2000, 10:42 AM
<i><br>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p></i><br>After one full year of waiting (with a deposit down), there is still no concrete information from my local BMW dealer, who has now become arrogant to the point of rudeness. They have adopted the attitude that since there is a long line for the M3, one customer more or less, is insignificant. They estimated that I'd get the car next April at the earliest. I asked for my money back and have ordered a "true sports car". It does not have a back seat, but it does have twice as much storage space and will go from 0-60 in 4.55 sec, is comfortable to drive, and the dealership was glad to have my business. (Are you listening BMW?)<br>

Bcar
09-11-2000, 10:48 AM
<i><br>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p></i><br>

aspects of vehicle. (more)Bcar
09-11-2000, 10:54 AM
And the last E36 M3 beat the vette around it. You know that BMW is not going to make their M3 a worse car... get real... Sure it "may" have more weight (~100lbs.) but also more power. And you talk smack about it being "based" off the E46 3s, have you ever driven a E36 328 and then a E36 M3??? They are NOTHING alike.<br>None of us know just how fast the M3 will be but I think it will be around 4.5-4.8 0-60 and 13.1-13.4 1/4 which WILL make it as fast or faster than a vette, and that is only in acc. Braking??? yeah right, bye bye vette. <br>Its all about the track (not 1/4). <p>And also the 255 ft-lbs is only pre-lim data... I think it will be more like 265-275...

Zarathustra
09-11-2000, 11:05 AM
<i><br>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p></i><br>

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 11:22 AM
That is a HUGE range! 4.5 seconds is absolutely impossible and so far off it's funny. In fact the 4.8 seconds figure is not close either. <p>With greater than 10 lbs per horsepower and very weak torque the 0-60 will most likely be low 5 seconds with a perfect launch.<p>Bob ///M3<p><br><i><br>And the last E36 M3 beat the vette around it. You know that BMW is not going to make their M3 a worse car... get real... Sure it "may" have more weight (~100lbs.) but also more power. And you talk smack about it being "based" off the E46 3s, have you ever driven a E36 328 and then a E36 M3??? They are NOTHING alike.<br>None of us know just how fast the M3 will be but I think it will be around 4.5-4.8 0-60 and 13.1-13.4 1/4 which WILL make it as fast or faster than a vette, and that is only in acc. Braking??? yeah right, bye bye vette. <br>Its all about the track (not 1/4). <p>And also the 255 ft-lbs is only pre-lim data... I think it will be more like 265-275...<p></i><br>

NJ
09-11-2000, 11:34 AM
No need for Comparisons. THERE IS ALWAYS A BIGGER DOG! 911 Turbos/Ferraris/Lotus/Lamborghinis owners never compare. WHY, Because it does not matter, Only people who are insecure about what they have or can get COMPARE, Dont say its for fun NO! because I dont see any M3 owners compare their cars to a HONDA PRELUDE than why compare it it a C5 unless there are doubts!<p><p><p><br><i><br>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p></i><br>

marc b want to help here too? Bcar
09-11-2000, 11:46 AM
using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 11:57 AM
In all due respect for your simulations I don't see the M3 being anywhere close to those figures...sorry.<p>And yes, .3 seconds is a HUGE amount of difference! Ask any drag team if .05 seconds is a big difference...and we're not talking about this time difference in 1320 feet but in 0 to 60 mph! Trust me, .3 seconds is "forever". It takes huge increases in horsepower and torgue to improve that amount of time.<p>Bob ///M3<p><br><i><br>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p></i><br>

M3 is not a drag car) Bcar
09-11-2000, 12:09 PM
<i><br>In all due respect for your simulations I don't see the M3 being anywhere close to those figures...sorry.<p>And yes, .3 seconds is a HUGE amount of difference! Ask any drag team if .05 seconds is a big difference...and we're not talking about this time difference in 1320 feet but in 0 to 60 mph! Trust me, .3 seconds is "forever". It takes huge increases in horsepower and torgue to improve that amount of time.<p>Bob ///M3<p><p>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p><br></i><br>

Farrari Lover
09-11-2000, 12:13 PM
<p>After one full year of waiting (with a deposit down), there is still no concrete information from my local BMW dealer, who has now become arrogant to the point of rudeness. They have adopted the attitude that since there is a long line for the M3, one customer more or less, is insignificant. They estimated that I'd get the car next April at the earliest. I asked for my money back and have ordered a "true sports car". It does not have a back seat, but it does have twice as much storage space and will go from 0-60 in 4.55 sec, is comfortable to drive, and the dealership was glad to have my business. (Are you listening BMW?)<p></i><br>You bought an NSX! Excellent choise.

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 12:19 PM
I never said the M3 was a drag car... You are trying to turn things around! "You" are the one who brought up your similations and the projected 4.5 to 4.8 second 0 to 60 mph times not me!<p>Bob ///M3 <p><br><i><p>In all due respect for your simulations I don't see the M3 being anywhere close to those figures...sorry.<p>And yes, .3 seconds is a HUGE amount of difference! Ask any drag team if .05 seconds is a big difference...and we're not talking about this time difference in 1320 feet but in 0 to 60 mph! Trust me, .3 seconds is "forever". It takes huge increases in horsepower and torgue to improve that amount of time.<p>Bob ///M3<p><br>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p><br></i><br>

last post Mr know-it-all? LOL!
09-11-2000, 12:52 PM
<i><br>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p></i><br>

Josh
09-11-2000, 01:09 PM
If you're already satisfied with the e46 M3 concept, you may as well save the $$ and not even buy the car. Right now its just a dream!<p>Personally, I wouldn't be satisfied until I'd have driven it...or at least read an independent review of it from a reputable journalist.<p><i><br>No need for Comparisons. THERE IS ALWAYS A BIGGER DOG! 911 Turbos/Ferraris/Lotus/Lamborghinis owners never compare. WHY, Because it does not matter, Only people who are insecure about what they have or can get COMPARE, Dont say its for fun NO! because I dont see any M3 owners compare their cars to a HONDA PRELUDE than why compare it it a C5 unless there are doubts!<p></i><p><br>

///John
09-11-2000, 01:54 PM
Are you crazy to think it will be that fast? Seriously you are looking 5.3-5.2 with a perfect launch at about 4000rpms. You are insanely mistaken on how fast this car will be, can;t wait until mags test the car and shut you up! 4.5 to 60 with only 255ft and a car that is more than 10lbs/hp no way in hell. Even 5.3 is a more than fair guess. With a marginal if that increase in power from euro M3, which runs a 5.4 to 60, you think new one, which is heavier will be 4.5! hahaha ok so the 360 modena should look out! These posts are getting more and more ridiculous....you proved what a fool you are.<br>

Bill
09-11-2000, 01:57 PM
Take your calculator and Matlab and shove it up your *** math boy. First off the power figures are final, its ONLY 255FT not 260-70 like you claim. And you figures are bull**** there is no way in hell it will do a 4.5 to 60! NEVER! Maybe off a cliff, which is excatly where your brain is retard.

to reality!!!!!!!
09-11-2000, 03:00 PM
<i><br>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p></i>You're an idiot, first off! Vette is not 4.4 0 to 60, you're crazy! Maybe, 4.8! Anyway, who gives a **** if the vette is 0.2 seconds faster to 60 than the M3. Overall, the vette will pale in comparison of build quality, reliability, luxury, etc. Come on, you're comparing a Chevy to a top of the line M3!!!!! And as far as the ferrari, i've seen like one on the road in my life!!! So, who cares if somewhere out there there is another car that can beat my car in the 1/4 mile, who gives a ****. There are thousands of cars at the track that can smoke any ferrari!! There will always be something faster somewhere. Not to mention, the ferrari will be ~$120K more than an M3, get real!! Talk about reality, let's stick to it then, for $47K the M3 is definitely, ofcourse argueably, the best combination of sport and luxury anywhere in the world!!!!!!!!!! That vette will fall apart while the M3 enjoys many miles to come.........There's your reality!!!!! And you say you love BMW, yeah, right!!!!!!<br>

this car from the beginning
09-11-2000, 03:03 PM
<i><br>I never said the M3 was a drag car... You are trying to turn things around! "You" are the one who brought up your similations and the projected 4.5 to 4.8 second 0 to 60 mph times not me!<p>Bob ///M3 <p><br>In all due respect for your simulations I don't see the M3 being anywhere close to those figures...sorry.<p>And yes, .3 seconds is a HUGE amount of difference! Ask any drag team if .05 seconds is a big difference...and we're not talking about this time difference in 1320 feet but in 0 to 60 mph! Trust me, .3 seconds is "forever". It takes huge increases in horsepower and torgue to improve that amount of time.<p>Bob ///M3<p><br>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p><br></i>shop elsewhere if you're not satisfied! Man, i swear , i have never seen you post anything positive about this car. You don't love it, so leave it alone and go get an Audi or better yet, a Honda or something, geez....<br>

behind your name, you're not
09-11-2000, 03:05 PM
<i><br>I agree with what you're saying however the C5s, Z06s and "any" other car can be modded too. Any car can be modded!<p>It would best to discuss the M3 in stock form and compare it, if desired, to other stock cars.<p>Bob ///M3 <br>worhty!!!!!!!!!!!!<p><br>Also keep in mind a good modded M3 has the potential to be a nice rocket. Will it best a stock C5? Maybe! Will it best a ZO6? Not likley!<p>But it would give many a V8 cars a run for its money with good mod's.<p>then again, who's goin to mod their new 48 to 55K M3?!? Hardley anyone for the next 3 to 5 years!<p><br></i><br>

if it does 0to60 in 5.0sec!!!
09-11-2000, 03:06 PM
<i><p>Listen this message board is very informative to a point. I enjoy reading the posts about the possible options on the new M3. What I roll my eyes over here is the ridiculous performance visions people have for this car. Sure its going to be nice, sure it will have some more power, sure it will be luxurious, sure, it will handle nice, and sure it will be built well as all BMW's are. <p>But can we please get real people! This car WILL NOT threaten powerful V8's. Cars like the ferrari, CLK55, C5, M5, will all be faster. You are all forgeting that the new M3 only has 255ft of torque, and I know the ferrari is not high on torque, but the modena engine alone costs as much as the new M3, so lets get back to reality shall we. <p>A lot of you on here like Andreas pull out some random figures which he calls "facts" from European Magazines that I have never heard of and don't give them any credit, especially if they are german mags. I know the car isnt out yet, and there is a lot of speculation about what it will be like, well lets just go through what we know about it. <p>As much as all of you would like to disregard this fact, the new M3 is built on the E46 platform, a much softer setup overall than previous 3 series. Again this is not a bad thing if performance and comfort is what you want, for the new 3 series trully is a baby-5 than a traditional 3. The simple fact is that BMW will ne ADDDING weight to the car, and tweaking some aspects, but the overall feel will be simular to regular E46. <p>This is why anyone who is knowledgeable of the current E46, knows that some of the performance "visions" for the new M3 are simply impossible, due to the characteristics of the car. It amuses me too how some people on here refuse to criticize ANYTHING about the car, thinking BMW is "sooo perfect". Lets face it the car is tooo dam heavy, and some one on this board actually said that could be a good thing because the car would "stick" to the ground more, thus making it a better handler...hahaha like weight has anything to do with downforce. <p>Back to the subject. I am interested in the M3 because it will provide a nice mix of luxury and performance, just like the AMG for Mercedes. But I don't fool myself and think for one second that it will compete with the real sports cars. Make fun all you want of the vette, that is your opinion, but there is no way the M3 will be able to keep up, let alone pass like some of you have stated. The vette has more HP and Tons more torque, that make acceleration in gears a lot faster. A 5-60mph rolling start will show how much the vette would dominate the M3. The new M3 will be marginally faster at best than the Euro M3 now, which is a 5.3-5.2 to 60. 2001 Vettes (not zo6) run 4.4! its not even close!<p>I know this is like beating a dead horse. But I love this board, I love BMW, I just hate some of the posts on here that have this "My new car is better than any car out there". You sound like Honda owners who say instead of having a M3, they would rather have a Civic with $30,000 is "mods". They refuse to accept anything could be "better" or "faster". And there is the key. Deciding which car is "better" between the new M3 and C5 vette is a matter of opinion, and there is no definative answer. But deciding on which car is "Faster" is easy, the corvette by a considerable margin. Its "pull away" faster. <p>All vettes are in the 12's second 1/4 spectrum now. This does not make the M3 less of a car. The vette is a pure sports car, with the rattle and rough ride that comes with it, unless you want to dish out $100k for something finished brillantly. And its very likely M3 would win in a comparission due to "liveability" and comfort of M3. But for shere performance the vette has nothing to worry about. A Z06 vette would demolish a E46 M3, on track or road, and it costs less. You have to give some credit where its do. <p>To sum it up I hope you all get your cars and enjoy them. I just hope this board does not turn into, "MY CAR IS BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER CAR NANNY NANNY POOO POOO" I ask Andreas to post links to his information and not tell us where he "thinks" it was posted. The majority of the people on here are from the US, and his infor is very irrelevant to how we judge cars, and we dont know how reliable the magazines are that he takes his comparissons out of. Any mag that tests an auto vette isnt very informative.<p>Anyway lets get real, get realistic of what we expect from this car. I know the long wait has made many of your dellusional about how good this car is going to be, it seems to be an inherent trait in many BMW owners who use the "take them in the twisties" excuse for everything. And "MINE'S A BMW". Get real people and stop the BS! Andreas that includes you! <p><br></i><br>

Bcar
09-11-2000, 03:42 PM
Man are you a little bitch, you must be one of those guys with a GED, good enough degree... Or was that one of those guys with "little man complex" Ha ha hah ahahaaaa you are such a fool. you just make your self look more and more ignorant as you go on...<p>what a pity that there are people like you around...<p>Hey isn't recess over yet???

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 03:46 PM
I see you didn't offer you name or e-mail address however I will still respond to your statement.<p>First, I own a '99 E36 M3 and also a '00 E46 328i. I am number 6 at my dealer for the new M3.<p>I happen to be one that "calls it likes I sees it", unlike so many here that think the new M3 will be faster than a Funny Car and handle better than a Formula 1 car. It really amazes me how some of the people here feel that nothing will even come close to the new M3. <p>My comments about the new M3 and E46 body style are honest and above board. There is no bias (because I own both models).<p>As for the comments in this particular post; I'm responding to Bcar's ill-informed belief that the new M3 will be a 4.5 to 4.8 second 0 to 60 mph performer. This is so incorrect I just had to say something! If someone didn't say something to correct this incorrect statement there would be a lot of people believing it to be true!<p>I, nor anyone else has driven the new M3 so we can't say how it will handle BUT I can tell you that "if" the horsepower and torque are correct for this car along with the weight there is no way it will perform 0 to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds much less 4.5 seconds! Negative talk? No, it's a FACT ("F-A-C-T")............<p>As for the torque rating that I made a comment about being almost funny because it is so low. The 255 lb/ft torque is terribly low for anything other than a high speed performer. It would be great for the Salt Flats where horsepower is everything and torque is nothing! Even with double VANOS helping the torque curve it still measures only 255 lb/ft! There are family sedans sold everyday that have torque figures in that neighborhood. This torque figure is nothing! Negative talk? No, FACT ("F-A-C-T").............<p>I have made comments before saying the E46 body style was bulky, heavy and had too large of a dash. That the cockpit area was too large and didn't have the personal feel the E36 or E40 does. That the new M3's engine should be a V8 instead of a inline 6 cylinder. This is my opinion and I have the right to express it...you don't have to agree with it and if you don't, then say so but also post your name and e-mail address so your statements have credibility.<p>Remember now, I own an E46 and I'm also on the wait list for the new M3!<p>My '99 M3 is a nice car BUT it's not the VERY BEST that ever hit the planet earth and I don't mind saying so. Negative talk? No, FACT ("F-A-C-T").....<p>So, whoever you are that only made a statement in which it really didn't deserve an answer...you have my rebuttal.<p>Bob ///M3<br> <p><br><i><p>shop elsewhere if you're not satisfied! Man, i swear , i have never seen you post anything positive about this car. You don't love it, so leave it alone and go get an Audi or better yet, a Honda or something, geez....<p></i><br>

stanley
09-11-2000, 04:10 PM
<i><p>After one full year of waiting (with a deposit down), there is still no concrete information from my local BMW dealer, who has now become arrogant to the point of rudeness. They have adopted the attitude that since there is a long line for the M3, one customer more or less, is insignificant. They estimated that I'd get the car next April at the earliest. I asked for my money back and have ordered a "true sports car". It does not have a back seat, but it does have twice as much storage space and will go from 0-60 in 4.55 sec, is comfortable to drive, and the dealership was glad to have my business. (Are you listening BMW?)<p><br>You bought an NSX! Excellent choise.<p></i><p>NOT EXACTLY! Although NSX is a fine car, I opted for the bow tie model. Send in the flames!<br>

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 04:45 PM
That's not a negative comment at all. It's fact and very nicely stated. You're trying to dream up something that's not really there.<p>And I do own a M3; that's why I have "///M3" after my name! At least I have a name... Do you have a name? Do you have a M3?<p>Get real buddy, you're getting nowhere with no name and therefore credibility. Tell me about your M3 please or do you even exist?<p>Bob ///M3 <p><br><i><p>I agree with what you're saying however the C5s, Z06s and "any" other car can be modded too. Any car can be modded!<p>It would best to discuss the M3 in stock form and compare it, if desired, to other stock cars.<p>Bob ///M3 <br>worhty!!!!!!!!!!!!<p><br>Also keep in mind a good modded M3 has the potential to be a nice rocket. Will it best a stock C5? Maybe! Will it best a ZO6? Not likley!<p>But it would give many a V8 cars a run for its money with good mod's.<p>then again, who's goin to mod their new 48 to 55K M3?!? Hardley anyone for the next 3 to 5 years!<p><br></i><br>

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 04:53 PM
Your little comments and statements sound very immature. <p>Stand up! Speak up! Be heard! But more than anything else please let everybody know who you are! Are you afraid? I hope not. Why are you hiding? There is no need to hide.<p>Bob ///M3

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 05:03 PM
<i><br>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p></i><br>

So Cal
09-11-2000, 05:05 PM
The z06 runs the 1/4 mile in 13.0 seconds, so I dont know how in the hell you say all vettes are in the 12s when there fastest,lightest version is not. Same with 0-60 the z06 might get 4.4 but not the basic c5. The m3 has not even been tested in the U.S. as of now, but if you are so ignorant to just disregard the european car magazines(which are superior to ours) just know this the M3 will carry 5 people and a lot more luggage, with a lot more style than a Corvette, and posting very fast, sports car numbers all around.

joe
09-11-2000, 05:12 PM
youre neglecting the overall torque integral, which will most certainly compensate for your comparative figure of peak torque. (252lbft vs whatever the c5/z6 has). <p>more than that no figures on rw hp/tq have been provided yet.<p>i could spout lots of counterpoints but it would be worthless<p>why would you want to drag stock m3 vs stock z06? <p>why are you even comparing m3 with z06 for that matter? wait till ltw comes out. c5 would be much better comparison, though still not much of one. <p>how sure are you that the m3 will drive like a slop 323/4door? im not... first of all the e46 has 2 different chassis, coupe and sedan. the coupe chassis, if you remember, was specifically designed to reduce flex, and did so substantially. second of all, how sure are you that m will knowingly produce an inferior car, that it wont make suitable adjustments? no information on design specifics has been available, so i dont think it should be open to comment. <p><br>granted the clk55 is a beautiful car, and beauty has always been lacking in bmw(not to mention e46 m3), but it tips the scale at 3600lbs, and, like the m3, has a MANUFACTURER'S 0-60 time of 5.2s. 0-100kph of 5.4.<br>oh yeah plus 20k more than m3, but whats money when we talk about cars?<p>c5... updated in 2002 lets wait and see. this increase in quality control leads me to believe that gm doesnt want any profit from corvettes anymore, if bmw was able to do that, how much better do you think the m3 would be?<p>zum

joe
09-11-2000, 05:12 PM
counterpoints... i couldnt help myself

JMS
09-11-2000, 05:24 PM
Granted that the Porsche is a lighter car than the E46 M3. It pulls in around a 4.8 sec.<p>The new engine should be a nice work or art. I don't agree with you opinion about the V8. The current inline 6 M3 engine (euro and us) is one of the most efficient engines produced. <p>JMS<br>99 DINAN M3

Farrari Lover
09-11-2000, 05:31 PM
The bow tie model is an excellent choice also.<br>More storage space than an NSX.<br>Enjoy!<p>carl

Bcar
09-11-2000, 05:45 PM
<i><p>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p><br></i><br>

Bill
09-11-2000, 06:10 PM
Actually for 2001 the regualar C5 gets added torque at 375ft, reaching peak 1400rpms earlier than 2000 model. The Z06 with 10 more feet and 35 more hp runs a 4.0 flat to 60 and a 12.6 1/4. The regular C5 is now a 4.4-4.5 to 60 and a 12.8-12.9 1/4 mile. Mags havent tested the 2001 vette yet, due to closeness to Z06 in straight line. <p>This is stupid, how did we ever get off thinking new M3 is faster than vette, its not even close. Its a great car and thats that. Its not a supercar though...its only a $40+k 3 series, many of you think its a $100k supercar....enough already!<br>

Nima
09-11-2000, 07:38 PM
<i>The C5 may be a "cool" car, but I would have more respect for the M3, you guys are missing the point, M-power has a rich heritage in motorsport, they've had years and years of grueling tests and races to come to this point of making an impressive car such as the e46 M3. My views on the C5 is that they've been following the same basic hotrod formula from the begining, just give it a huge V8, stiffer suspension, and call it a day.<p>and what does it matter if you own an M3 or not<br>(And yes I do own one, just in case you start giving me the same ****)<p>Nima<br></i>

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 08:44 PM
I appreciate (and respect) your opinion JMS. <p>Personally, I would like to see a higher performance engine in the new M3 and believe it will be made available sometime in the near future. And I think it will indeed be a V8! BMW has not given up on a V8 for the M3. In fact, I believe their competition will force BMW to offer an "M" V8 M3...<p>Even though the inline 6-cylinder is considered an efficient engine, BMW could produce a small lightweight V8 engine that could easily outperform the currently "expected" M3 on the track and for those interested...straight-line too!<p>Bob ///M3<p> <p><i><br>Granted that the Porsche is a lighter car than the E46 M3. It pulls in around a 4.8 sec.<p>The new engine should be a nice work or art. I don't agree with you opinion about the V8. The current inline 6 M3 engine (euro and us) is one of the most efficient engines produced. <p>JMS<br>99 DINAN M3 <p></i><br>

Bob ///M3
09-11-2000, 08:59 PM
Have you figured out what the name is on your birth certificate yet? Have you figured out what your e-mail address is yet?<p>Why don't you tell everybody about your BMW! Do you even own a BMW? Have you ever owned a BMW? Tell us all... If not, that's okay.<p>Maybe you can come up with something more intelligent to say when you answer this post.<p>I'll be looking out for your posts: spider-we053.proxy.aol.com (205.188.195.43)<p>Let me know when you feel like standing up and being a man instead of hiding. <p>I'll be the first one to come forward and congratulate you...and I mean that. Think about it. Seriously...<p>Best regards,<br>Bob Crews (Bob ///M3)

John
09-11-2000, 09:53 PM
torque to improve 0-60times by .5sec... You are right about the improvements needed to improve 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times. For the M, it should be around the same, since the car is lighter but on the conterary, there will be issues with traction<p>My $.02<p>And yes, .3 seconds is a HUGE amount of difference! Ask any drag team if .05 seconds is a big difference...and we're not talking about this time difference in 1320 feet but in 0 to 60 mph! Trust me, .3 seconds is "forever". It takes huge increases in horsepower and torgue to improve that amount of time.<p>Bob ///M3<p><p>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p><br></i><br>

JMS
09-12-2000, 12:56 AM
I think the market will help determine what the next M3 will be after the release of the new E46 M3. Almost all new production sports cars have seen an increase in HP due to market demand. The Porsche 996, C6 Vette, S4, Viper, new NSX (V8??) the list goes on... <p>I personally would like to see a split in the M production line. First I would like to keep the M3 an inline 6 luxury sports touring car in the 45-50K range. After all it is a part of the 3 series which are all inline sixes. Next I would like to see the M division create a more beefed up pure sports car with a V8 in the 65-70K range to go against the Porsche, Vette, Viper, NSX etc. As we all know the Z8 is out of the price range for the average M3 owner. The M5 is an incredible car but it is too big for my taste. We'll have to wait and see what the new M Coupe will be like. I have a feeling it'll be quite a vehicle. <p>BMW NA definitely knows what they are doing if people are lining up to put their name on a wait list. I also have a feeling that they don't want to spread themselves too thin either. BMW had troubles selling the E36 M3 Light Weight because it was expensive and offered fewer luxury items (I'd love to own one though). Making too many specialized models can pose some risks especially in the sports car department. Porsche keeps it simple by only producing several models. The loss at Rover doesn't help either. At least we have Ralf Schumacher on the podiums to help lift our Motorsport spirits :)<p>I'm no marketing/sales genius but I believe it plays a tremendous role in the design of future models. The 928 Porsche was quite a vehicle but it was a marketing flop in the US and therefore didn't sell very well. BMW can probably make more money by developing the X5 market. I know the Z9 might be in the works as well as the M1 but I'll never be able to get my hands on one of those. You'll have to ask Bruce on the the status of those two exotics. Just my .02$ worth. All comments and opinions are welcome. <p>JMS <br>99 DINAN M3<p>

Mr. Grinch
09-12-2000, 01:43 AM
I'm kind of confused to see people comparing M3 vs Vette. Personally, the comparison doesn't enter my mind. I'm thinking of rear folding seats, reasonable trunk, and the ability to fold the seats and fit in things a bike or two, a pc and monitor. Better ground clearance, more upright driving position. Switching to a set of winter wheels and tires, I'm sure it will handle the 10 weeks of snow here better than a vette. Nobody has argued the differences in the interior. Safety is a factor too. Generally I think the M3 will be a better daily driver for people who don't always have the best of roads or driving conditions, or don't want to sacrifice _that_ much space. <p>They're entirely different vehicles to me. It's like people comparing M5 to Vette and here I sit wondering huh? If a vette does the job for you year round, or if you have more than one car, great! I am truly envious. But some of us want the other advantages of the M3. <p>Best of luck to those of you getting the Vette. And best wishes to the rest of us still waiting for the E46 M3. <p>Now pass me the Ritalin.<br>

Paul E
09-12-2000, 09:00 AM
<i><br>In all due respect for your simulations I don't see the M3 being anywhere close to those figures...sorry.<p>And yes, .3 seconds is a HUGE amount of difference! Ask any drag team if .05 seconds is a big difference...and we're not talking about this time difference in 1320 feet but in 0 to 60 mph! Trust me, .3 seconds is "forever". It takes huge increases in horsepower and torgue to improve that amount of time.<p>Bob ///M3<p><p>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p><br></i>Right Bob, I'm with you 100%...The guy who said you cant feel .3 sec difference to 60 is way off base...When I'm out doing some 0-60 testing with the Gtech/pro, theres an absolute huge difference between my 5.0 second runs, and my 5.3 second runs, which are usually caused by a big driver mistake at launch, or something equivalent. On the M3s, it takes approx 12 - 15 hp to produce a 1/10 second improvement, so your absolutely right: it Does take quite a bit of HP to produce a .3 seconds difference...Would he say you cant feel 40 HP? Thats what he's saying when he says you cant feel .3 second in 0-60! Sure wish people would be a little more sure of their 'facts' before they started shooting their mouths off! That's the biggest problems with these boards...Unless someone is 100% sure of his data, it would serve him well to learn a little humility, and preface his claims with 'I think', or 'Does anybody know if....', etc, etc.<br>

Paul E
09-12-2000, 09:04 AM
<i><br>I see you didn't offer you name or e-mail address however I will still respond to your statement.<p>First, I own a '99 E36 M3 and also a '00 E46 328i. I am number 6 at my dealer for the new M3.<p>I happen to be one that "calls it likes I sees it", unlike so many here that think the new M3 will be faster than a Funny Car and handle better than a Formula 1 car. It really amazes me how some of the people here feel that nothing will even come close to the new M3. <p>My comments about the new M3 and E46 body style are honest and above board. There is no bias (because I own both models).<p>As for the comments in this particular post; I'm responding to Bcar's ill-informed belief that the new M3 will be a 4.5 to 4.8 second 0 to 60 mph performer. This is so incorrect I just had to say something! If someone didn't say something to correct this incorrect statement there would be a lot of people believing it to be true!<p>I, nor anyone else has driven the new M3 so we can't say how it will handle BUT I can tell you that "if" the horsepower and torque are correct for this car along with the weight there is no way it will perform 0 to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds much less 4.5 seconds! Negative talk? No, it's a FACT ("F-A-C-T")............<p>As for the torque rating that I made a comment about being almost funny because it is so low. The 255 lb/ft torque is terribly low for anything other than a high speed performer. It would be great for the Salt Flats where horsepower is everything and torque is nothing! Even with double VANOS helping the torque curve it still measures only 255 lb/ft! There are family sedans sold everyday that have torque figures in that neighborhood. This torque figure is nothing! Negative talk? No, FACT ("F-A-C-T").............<p>I have made comments before saying the E46 body style was bulky, heavy and had too large of a dash. That the cockpit area was too large and didn't have the personal feel the E36 or E40 does. That the new M3's engine should be a V8 instead of a inline 6 cylinder. This is my opinion and I have the right to express it...you don't have to agree with it and if you don't, then say so but also post your name and e-mail address so your statements have credibility.<p>Remember now, I own an E46 and I'm also on the wait list for the new M3!<p>My '99 M3 is a nice car BUT it's not the VERY BEST that ever hit the planet earth and I don't mind saying so. Negative talk? No, FACT ("F-A-C-T").....<p>So, whoever you are that only made a statement in which it really didn't deserve an answer...you have my rebuttal.<p>Bob ///M3<br> <p><br>shop elsewhere if you're not satisfied! Man, i swear , i have never seen you post anything positive about this car. You don't love it, so leave it alone and go get an Audi or better yet, a Honda or something, geez....<p><br></i>Right you are again, Bob...Some of these guys remind me of those 'America: love it or leave it' *******s! They must learn that loving something doesnt mean you cant point out the faults, in order to make it better.....Have those guys ever loved a woman? Does that mean she was perfect? Case closed!<br>

Bob ///M3
09-12-2000, 09:21 AM
<i><p>I see you didn't offer you name or e-mail address however I will still respond to your statement.<p>First, I own a '99 E36 M3 and also a '00 E46 328i. I am number 6 at my dealer for the new M3.<p>I happen to be one that "calls it likes I sees it", unlike so many here that think the new M3 will be faster than a Funny Car and handle better than a Formula 1 car. It really amazes me how some of the people here feel that nothing will even come close to the new M3. <p>My comments about the new M3 and E46 body style are honest and above board. There is no bias (because I own both models).<p>As for the comments in this particular post; I'm responding to Bcar's ill-informed belief that the new M3 will be a 4.5 to 4.8 second 0 to 60 mph performer. This is so incorrect I just had to say something! If someone didn't say something to correct this incorrect statement there would be a lot of people believing it to be true!<p>I, nor anyone else has driven the new M3 so we can't say how it will handle BUT I can tell you that "if" the horsepower and torque are correct for this car along with the weight there is no way it will perform 0 to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds much less 4.5 seconds! Negative talk? No, it's a FACT ("F-A-C-T")............<p>As for the torque rating that I made a comment about being almost funny because it is so low. The 255 lb/ft torque is terribly low for anything other than a high speed performer. It would be great for the Salt Flats where horsepower is everything and torque is nothing! Even with double VANOS helping the torque curve it still measures only 255 lb/ft! There are family sedans sold everyday that have torque figures in that neighborhood. This torque figure is nothing! Negative talk? No, FACT ("F-A-C-T").............<p>I have made comments before saying the E46 body style was bulky, heavy and had too large of a dash. That the cockpit area was too large and didn't have the personal feel the E36 or E40 does. That the new M3's engine should be a V8 instead of a inline 6 cylinder. This is my opinion and I have the right to express it...you don't have to agree with it and if you don't, then say so but also post your name and e-mail address so your statements have credibility.<p>Remember now, I own an E46 and I'm also on the wait list for the new M3!<p>My '99 M3 is a nice car BUT it's not the VERY BEST that ever hit the planet earth and I don't mind saying so. Negative talk? No, FACT ("F-A-C-T").....<p>So, whoever you are that only made a statement in which it really didn't deserve an answer...you have my rebuttal.<p>Bob ///M3<br> <p><br>shop elsewhere if you're not satisfied! Man, i swear , i have never seen you post anything positive about this car. You don't love it, so leave it alone and go get an Audi or better yet, a Honda or something, geez....<p><br>Right you are again, Bob...Some of these guys remind me of those 'America: love it or leave it' *******s! They must learn that loving something doesnt mean you cant point out the faults, in order to make it better.....Have those guys ever loved a woman? Does that mean she was perfect? Case closed!<p></i><br>

Bob ///M3
09-12-2000, 09:22 AM
<i><p>In all due respect for your simulations I don't see the M3 being anywhere close to those figures...sorry.<p>And yes, .3 seconds is a HUGE amount of difference! Ask any drag team if .05 seconds is a big difference...and we're not talking about this time difference in 1320 feet but in 0 to 60 mph! Trust me, .3 seconds is "forever". It takes huge increases in horsepower and torgue to improve that amount of time.<p>Bob ///M3<p><br>using Matlab and the times vary from 4.5-4.8 0-60. When plugging in the variables for other vehicles all the times are within .1-.2 of tested times for the respective vehicle. And the M3 will have LESS than 10lbs per HP. The 330 number is a bit low also with the 255, more like 260-270. <p>and .3 is a HUGE range? yeah right a person could not perceive that small of a diff.<p><br>You WILL SEE when the car is tested in the next month or two, and then you will get a big "I told you so..." (at least I hope I can tell ya =-) )<p><br>Right Bob, I'm with you 100%...The guy who said you cant feel .3 sec difference to 60 is way off base...When I'm out doing some 0-60 testing with the Gtech/pro, theres an absolute huge difference between my 5.0 second runs, and my 5.3 second runs, which are usually caused by a big driver mistake at launch, or something equivalent. On the M3s, it takes approx 12 - 15 hp to produce a 1/10 second improvement, so your absolutely right: it Does take quite a bit of HP to produce a .3 seconds difference...Would he say you cant feel 40 HP? Thats what he's saying when he says you cant feel .3 second in 0-60! Sure wish people would be a little more sure of their 'facts' before they started shooting their mouths off! That's the biggest problems with these boards...Unless someone is 100% sure of his data, it would serve him well to learn a little humility, and preface his claims with 'I think', or 'Does anybody know if....', etc, etc.<p></i><br>


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