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Dave Yarbrough
11-27-2000, 10:29 PM
The 11/27 issue of AutoWeek has an article on the M3 Cabriolet (pg 10). "...same 24-valve, 3.2 liter inline six-cylinder as the M3 coupe. The iron-block unit produces 333 horsepower at 7900 rpm and 269 lb-ft of torque at 4900 rpm." Sorry, same old picture also.

Bimmer Tech
11-27-2000, 11:58 PM
Yes the new M3 will have an iron block. In order to absorb the high forces from the crankshaft(due to high engine rpm and combustion pressure) the engine block must be made of cast iron. <br>Bimmer Tech

Mr. Grinch
11-28-2000, 12:02 AM
I believe the E46 M3 has an Fe block but some would like more proof than they've seen so far.<p>Reason? Because at least half the magazines out there claim it's an Al block. <p>Since you're a Bimmer tech, could you point to any hard references (bmw, import or emissions testing documentation, tech manuals) that show the block is iron?<p>Thanks<p>

Bimmer Tech
11-28-2000, 12:30 AM
When I went to M3 training there was a dissaebled S-54 engine there to work on. I can assure you it was cast iron. Although I can not post the picture, I have the training manual sitting here in front of me right now of the iron block. As I have stated in my previous post, a cast iron block is used in order to absorb the high forces produced by the crankshaft. I hope this clears some things up. Let me know if you guys have any more technical questions, Id be glad to help out. But I cant tell you when your M3 will be at your dealer, sorry:). <br>Bimmer Tech

David
11-28-2000, 01:01 AM
The Block is definitely cast iron (strength) and the cylinder head is aluminum. Just go to the international BMW website (www.bmw.com) and go to the M3 link to read about it. Also read page of Oct. CAR p100, Nov. BMWCar p42, or Nov. Roundel p36. Enough said!

David
11-28-2000, 01:17 AM
November issue of EVO (page 61) and January issue of Sport's Car International (page 31).<p><br>

Mr. Grinch
11-28-2000, 01:25 AM
OK here goes:<p>- Have you been told about any specific M3 problems... ie the engine problems we've heard about?<p>- What did the training focus on? <p>- What would you say the biggest differences, from a maintenance point of view, between the M3 and the rest of the 3 series are?<p>- You mentioned earlier that the maintenance procedures are found on the BMW Diagnostic machine. I'm guessing this is just a PC computer in a big box with diag connectors. Also I'm guessing that updates would be made via CD... any other method would be too expensive. <p>- what's the break-in recommendation?<p>- what's are the recommended fluids and intervals?<p>- Have there been problems with 11.5:1 compression and pump gas? What's the recommended octane for north america in this car?<p>- Any "typical" troubleshooting pointers mentioned during the course? Problem areas?<p>- Were you given any info on SMG?<p>- Is the clutch the same as the M5 clutch? Have you heard anything about the rather frequent M5 clutch problems, even among drivers with many years of experience with BMW standards going through 3 M5 clutches before getting an "upgraded" clutch from Z8?<p>- Any "cold weather" tips for S-54 engine? Does it have standard size frost plugs that you can install a block heater in?<p>Hope you don't mind the questions. I'm motivated to learn as much as I can about the mechanicals of this car, and get the factory repair instructions if at all possible. Not because I intend to do any work on the car, I don't have the space or the tools for that any more. But being a mechanic, I'm sure you can understand how you don't just trust anyone to work on your car. <p>My current car has been _extremely_ reliable. But more than once knowing the exact repair procedure or TSB has saved my bacon. Example, I picked the car up after getting the heater fan replaced. Driving away, the entire glove box fell off. I took the car back, and they insisted they had not touched the glove box, and would charge me to fix it, until I copied the factory page on heater fan replacement which shows the glove box has to be removed first. Faster than you can blink, they changed the tune.<p>So, that's why I really want to find the full shop procedures for this car. Or at least get the recommended regular maintenance intervals for everything, radiator, steering, brake, engine, transmission and differential fluids. Brakes, bearings, timing chain, plugs, valve adjustments. Even if you could just post the full regular maint schedule that'd be great. <p>Thanks.<br>

Bimmer Tech
11-28-2000, 02:14 AM
<i><br>OK here goes: <br>Before we start I would just like to say that a lot of your questions can not be answered just yet because the vehicle is not here. It is too new still.<p>- Have you been told about any specific M3 problems... ie the engine problems we've heard about? <br>From what I've heard(which probally doesn't hold anymore wieght than what anyone else has heard) is the engine problem was attributed to the crankshaft. I heard it was too soft and was causing problems. I'm sure its been redesigned tested before it goes into production. But other than that, no other specifics. I'm sure when the car gets here though it will be a different story. As with any new car.<p>- What did the training focus on? <br>The training focused on the engine basics, VANOS, engine management, new seats, and the trans/differential. The rest of the components were breifly covered because of their simularity with the other E-46's.<p>- What would you say the biggest differences, from a maintenance point of view, between the M3 and the rest of the 3 series are?<br> Obviously the valves. As I have stated in the past they are no longer hydralic so adjustment is needed.<p>- You mentioned earlier that the maintenance procedures are found on the BMW Diagnostic machine. I'm guessing this is just a PC computer in a big box with diag connectors. Also I'm guessing that updates would be made via CD... any other method would be too expensive. <br>Your correct. All "new" BMW info, from SIB's to repair proceedures, to diagnosis, is all incorporated into one computer. All updates are made by the software.<p>- what's the break-in recommendation?<br>Not sure, but Im sure it will be the owners manual, or on the windsheild.<p>- what's are the recommended fluids and intervals?<br>Owners manual.<br>- Have there been problems with 11.5:1 compression and pump gas? What's the recommended octane for north america in this car? <br>I'm quessing at least 91 octane, but again it will be in the owners manual.<p>- Any "typical" troubleshooting pointers mentioned during the course? Problem areas?<br>None mentioned. Again the car is too new to have known problems.<p>- Were you given any info on SMG?<br>I wish! I actually learned more from being on this board.<p>- Is the clutch the same as the M5 clutch? Have you heard anything about the rather frequent M5 clutch problems, even among drivers with many years of experience with BMW standards going through 3 M5 clutches before getting an "upgraded" clutch from Z8?<br>I believe the clutch on the M3 is all new. It has a hydralically dampered dual-mass flywheel. Also a diaphram type pressure plate and drive disk.<p><br>- Any "cold weather" tips for S-54 engine? Does it have standard size frost plugs that you can install a block heater in?<br>Not sure.<p>Hope you don't mind the questions. I'm motivated to learn as much as I can about the mechanicals of this car, and get the factory repair instructions if at all possible. Not because I intend to do any work on the car, I don't have the space or the tools for that any more. But being a mechanic, I'm sure you can understand how you don't just trust anyone to work on your car.<br>Its ok. I dont mind the questions. I enjoy being able to help out. But please understand that info on these cars change so fast. I cant say how accurate the info given to me is. It is constantly changing. Just be patient and the M3 will be here soon(or not too soon!). A lot of your questions will be answered when you recieve your new car and read the manual. Good luck!<br>Bimmer Tech <p>My current car has been _extremely_ reliable. But more than once knowing the exact repair procedure or TSB has saved my bacon. Example, I picked the car up after getting the heater fan replaced. Driving away, the entire glove box fell off. I took the car back, and they insisted they had not touched the glove box, and would charge me to fix it, until I copied the factory page on heater fan replacement which shows the glove box has to be removed first. Faster than you can blink, they changed the tune.<p>So, that's why I really want to find the full shop procedures for this car. Or at least get the recommended regular maintenance intervals for everything, radiator, steering, brake, engine, transmission and differential fluids. Brakes, bearings, timing chain, plugs, valve adjustments. Even if you could just post the full regular maint schedule that'd be great. <p>Thanks.<p></i><br>

appreciate it. (e) Animboy
11-28-2000, 02:50 AM
<i><p>OK here goes: <br>Before we start I would just like to say that a lot of your questions can not be answered just yet because the vehicle is not here. It is too new still.<p>- Have you been told about any specific M3 problems... ie the engine problems we've heard about? <br>From what I've heard(which probally doesn't hold anymore wieght than what anyone else has heard) is the engine problem was attributed to the crankshaft. I heard it was too soft and was causing problems. I'm sure its been redesigned tested before it goes into production. But other than that, no other specifics. I'm sure when the car gets here though it will be a different story. As with any new car.<p>- What did the training focus on? <br>The training focused on the engine basics, VANOS, engine management, new seats, and the trans/differential. The rest of the components were breifly covered because of their simularity with the other E-46's.<p>- What would you say the biggest differences, from a maintenance point of view, between the M3 and the rest of the 3 series are?<br> Obviously the valves. As I have stated in the past they are no longer hydralic so adjustment is needed.<p>- You mentioned earlier that the maintenance procedures are found on the BMW Diagnostic machine. I'm guessing this is just a PC computer in a big box with diag connectors. Also I'm guessing that updates would be made via CD... any other method would be too expensive. <br>Your correct. All "new" BMW info, from SIB's to repair proceedures, to diagnosis, is all incorporated into one computer. All updates are made by the software.<p>- what's the break-in recommendation?<br>Not sure, but Im sure it will be the owners manual, or on the windsheild.<p>- what's are the recommended fluids and intervals?<br>Owners manual.<br>- Have there been problems with 11.5:1 compression and pump gas? What's the recommended octane for north america in this car? <br>I'm quessing at least 91 octane, but again it will be in the owners manual.<p>- Any "typical" troubleshooting pointers mentioned during the course? Problem areas?<br>None mentioned. Again the car is too new to have known problems.<p>- Were you given any info on SMG?<br>I wish! I actually learned more from being on this board.<p>- Is the clutch the same as the M5 clutch? Have you heard anything about the rather frequent M5 clutch problems, even among drivers with many years of experience with BMW standards going through 3 M5 clutches before getting an "upgraded" clutch from Z8?<br>I believe the clutch on the M3 is all new. It has a hydralically dampered dual-mass flywheel. Also a diaphram type pressure plate and drive disk.<p><br>- Any "cold weather" tips for S-54 engine? Does it have standard size frost plugs that you can install a block heater in?<br>Not sure.<p>Hope you don't mind the questions. I'm motivated to learn as much as I can about the mechanicals of this car, and get the factory repair instructions if at all possible. Not because I intend to do any work on the car, I don't have the space or the tools for that any more. But being a mechanic, I'm sure you can understand how you don't just trust anyone to work on your car.<br>Its ok. I dont mind the questions. I enjoy being able to help out. But please understand that info on these cars change so fast. I cant say how accurate the info given to me is. It is constantly changing. Just be patient and the M3 will be here soon(or not too soon!). A lot of your questions will be answered when you recieve your new car and read the manual. Good luck!<br>Bimmer Tech <p>My current car has been _extremely_ reliable. But more than once knowing the exact repair procedure or TSB has saved my bacon. Example, I picked the car up after getting the heater fan replaced. Driving away, the entire glove box fell off. I took the car back, and they insisted they had not touched the glove box, and would charge me to fix it, until I copied the factory page on heater fan replacement which shows the glove box has to be removed first. Faster than you can blink, they changed the tune.<p>So, that's why I really want to find the full shop procedures for this car. Or at least get the recommended regular maintenance intervals for everything, radiator, steering, brake, engine, transmission and differential fluids. Brakes, bearings, timing chain, plugs, valve adjustments. Even if you could just post the full regular maint schedule that'd be great. <p>Thanks.<p><br></i><br>

Hagen
11-28-2000, 05:46 AM
That's a poor excuse because it doesn't make sense.<p>A better answer would be that they've spent considerable time and R$D invested in the iron block that they've got, so why go Al if they don't have to?<p>Besides, that takes time and money.

Mr. Grinch
11-28-2000, 06:09 AM
We're talking an over-bored/stroked engine here. No doubt in my mind that given the same dimensions, the Fe block will be stronger. Al may be stronger per mass, but not per a given thickness or volume. The current Fe and Al block are very similar and I get the feeling the Al one was _not_ created to be a race engine, but to be a lighter weight economy performer. It's likely optimized for lighter weight, and to optimize it for the same or better strenght of the iron block would be a whole new block. <p>So, the answer _does_ make sense, it's stronger _and_ they've spent considerable R&D on both, but the iron block ancestors were used for racing, while the Al block was more for economy.<p>Just my opinion though.<br>

Mr. Grinch
11-28-2000, 06:21 AM
Thanks! <p>- About the engine crank. That really interests me. Certainly the problem could have been machining of a part. But I was always thinking along the lines of something else, like the heat treatment for a part. Screw up the cycle, or take bad readings, the entire process is junk. Definately would explain the metal being softer in the crank, if that's what happened.<p>About the stuff you learned then<p>- Any tidbits on the new double-vanos? Same basic idea as E39 M5 vanos?<p>- How about the seats? What did you learn there? Did they mention any non-power seats? Does "adjustable side bolsters" mean the same thing as the inflatable side bolsters? Any comments on those or what material they use for the bladder? Curious how they might function in extreme cold (-30 c).<p>- How about the trans? I heard it was the same one as M5 but different ratios. <p>- Any info on the diff? Does it use a silicone based fluid or something else? This is the one really new thing to BMW that catches my eye. Look like it's going to be a low-maint item? Any comment on the internals besides what we've been told already?<p>- Any comments on what you've seen of the suspension? Obviously, this is a brand new suspension too. Just curious if anything caught your eye. I'm guessing it's a bit beefier than E36 M3 suspension.<p>Thanks again. Are you thinking of getting one yourself? Or you rather fix'em than drive'em?<p>

Mr. Grinch
11-28-2000, 06:34 AM
What exactly does putting Sodium in the hollow valve stems do? Conduct heat better?<br>

Bcar
11-28-2000, 10:23 AM
<i><br>The 11/27 issue of AutoWeek has an article on the M3 Cabriolet (pg 10). "...same 24-valve, 3.2 liter inline six-cylinder as the M3 coupe. The iron-block unit produces 333 horsepower at 7900 rpm and 269 lb-ft of torque at 4900 rpm." Sorry, same old picture also.<p></i><br>

Bimmer Tech
11-29-2000, 12:03 AM
<i><br>Thanks! <p>- About the engine crank. That really interests me. Certainly the problem could have been machining of a part. But I was always thinking along the lines of something else, like the heat treatment for a part. Screw up the cycle, or take bad readings, the entire process is junk. Definately would explain the metal being softer in the crank, if that's what happened.<p>About the stuff you learned then<p>- Any tidbits on the new double-vanos? Same basic idea as E39 M5 vanos?<p>- How about the seats? What did you learn there? Did they mention any non-power seats? <br>Teh sports seats can be orderd mechanical or electrical.<p> Does "adjustable side bolsters" mean the same thing as the inflatable side bolsters? Any comments on those or what material they use for the bladder? Curious how they might function in extreme cold (-30 c).<br>The variable side support is an option. There are air cusions mounted on the left and right sides of the seat. I sat in the seats and checked them out. I loved them. They really "strapped" you in. It felt as if you didnt need to wear a seatbelt anymore! They inflate and deflate to your liking.<br>They also had Lumbar support.<p>- How about the trans? I heard it was the same one as M5 but different ratios. <br>I think the trans was a take off of the E-36 M3. But 6 speeds. The trans had lifetime oil. The cooling of the trans has been increased by panels under the body to direct more airflow by it. <p>- Any info on the diff? Does it use a silicone based fluid or something else? This is the one really new thing to BMW that catches my eye. Look like it's going to be a low-maint item? Any comment on the internals besides what we've been told already?<br>Yes the differential is filled with high viscosity silicon oil. <p>- Any comments on what you've seen of the suspension? Obviously, this is a brand new suspension too. Just curious if anything caught your eye. I'm guessing it's a bit beefier than E36 M3 suspension.<br>There are a lot of suspension components that are specific to the E-46 M3. These include the front axle mount, front stabilizer bar, aluminum control arm frame. The front and rear aluminum suspenssion components had "M3" cast into it, like on the M5. It looked pretty cool.<p>Thanks again. Are you thinking of getting one yourself? Or you rather fix'em than drive'em?<br>I would love to have one for myself. But unfortunately I am not able to come up with the funds. I have a 00 323ci and a 84 323i. I want to race the 84 323i, that will be my version of an M3.<br></i><br>

Bimmer Tech
11-29-2000, 12:05 AM
<i><br>What exactly does putting Sodium in the hollow valve stems do? Conduct heat better?<p></i><br>


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