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M3
12-04-2000, 04:59 PM
If you give a deposit to a dealer have them <p>A Sign a PO on dealer stationary that says At MSRP have<br> it signed by the Salesmanager (Salesman)<p>B. Make a deposit by Visa or cashiers check if possible !! <br> get a receipt !! <p>C. Contact the dealer on a Monthly basis when you know the car is going to be produced and delivered. Be Professional <br>and ask for an Update, Flat out ask them how many cars they and when !!<p>D. Try and communicate VIA Email and keep copies. Fred, Jon and the recommended dealers are VERY good about. Do this !!<p><br>E. ALL CAR COMPANIES, including BMW because of the way dealer aggreements are written in the US, have to say the same thing !! <p>"All dealers are independently owned and operated, BMW NA<br>cannot Force them to sell a car at MSRP. This is true"<p>BMW does not like gouging, however they cannot control it <br>accept to lightly reward dealers who dont.<p><br>Bottom line is have a contract as what I discussed earlier,<br>After my attourney Got done with the dealer on an S-2000 <br>I recieved it at MSRP, recouped my Legal costs <br>and got $500 in accessories thrown in!!<p>Now the Legal eagles will have issues with this but Hell <br>look at the election, But by the time you involve the state Attourney Generals office, the BBB, Of course the BMWNA <br>and local area Zone reps. Usually there are local dealers associations to help out as well. If they screw with you, you may be able to recieve compensation for the loss. <p><br>Hope this helps <br>take care <p><br>

Steve_D
12-04-2000, 05:05 PM
I think i'll sue for copyright infringement! lol

S.O.L
12-04-2000, 05:47 PM
I had my deposit returned to me after the dealer held onto it for 6 months. When I spoke to the sales manager he finally admitted to me that they decided not to sell it at MSRP, even though he gave me a different reason in his return letter.<br>I didn't have @MSRP in writing, but we had a verbal agreement. Is a verbal contract legally enforcable? <p><i><br>If you give a deposit to a dealer have them <p>A Sign a PO on dealer stationary that says At MSRP have<br> it signed by the Salesmanager (Salesman)<p>B. Make a deposit by Visa or cashiers check if possible !! <br> get a receipt !! <p>C. Contact the dealer on a Monthly basis when you know the car is going to be produced and delivered. Be Professional <br>and ask for an Update, Flat out ask them how many cars they and when !!<p>D. Try and communicate VIA Email and keep copies. Fred, Jon and the recommended dealers are VERY good about. Do this !!<p><br>E. ALL CAR COMPANIES, including BMW because of the way dealer aggreements are written in the US, have to say the same thing !! <p>"All dealers are independently owned and operated, BMW NA<br>cannot Force them to sell a car at MSRP. This is true"<p>BMW does not like gouging, however they cannot control it <br>accept to lightly reward dealers who dont.<p><br>Bottom line is have a contract as what I discussed earlier,<br>After my attourney Got done with the dealer on an S-2000 <br>I recieved it at MSRP, recouped my Legal costs <br>and got $500 in accessories thrown in!!<p>Now the Legal eagles will have issues with this but Hell <br>look at the election, But by the time you involve the state Attourney Generals office, the BBB, Of course the BMWNA <br>and local area Zone reps. Usually there are local dealers associations to help out as well. If they screw with you, you may be able to recieve compensation for the loss. <p><br>Hope this helps <br>take care <p><br></i><br>

jedinite
12-04-2000, 05:55 PM
Verbal contracts are worth the paper that they're written on (ie, nothing).<p>Technically, a handshake or verbal contract is legally enforcable, but the issue becomes proof. A verbal contract legally recorded is indeed enforcable, but something verbal between you and your dealer? Good luck proving that he ever said the magic four letters of MSRP.<p>Disclaimer: IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer)

Jon
12-04-2000, 05:58 PM
As long as it's a legal contract, its enforcability doesn't depend on its form (written, verbal, sign language, etc.)<p>Good luck proving it though! It's your word against theirs with the burden of proof on you.<p>-Jon<p><i><br>I had my deposit returned to me after the dealer held onto it for 6 months. When I spoke to the sales manager he finally admitted to me that they decided not to sell it at MSRP, even though he gave me a different reason in his return letter.<br>I didn't have @MSRP in writing, but we had a verbal agreement. Is a verbal contract legally enforcable? <p><br>If you give a deposit to a dealer have them <p>A Sign a PO on dealer stationary that says At MSRP have<br> it signed by the Salesmanager (Salesman)<p>B. Make a deposit by Visa or cashiers check if possible !! <br> get a receipt !! <p>C. Contact the dealer on a Monthly basis when you know the car is going to be produced and delivered. Be Professional <br>and ask for an Update, Flat out ask them how many cars they and when !!<p>D. Try and communicate VIA Email and keep copies. Fred, Jon and the recommended dealers are VERY good about. Do this !!<p><br>E. ALL CAR COMPANIES, including BMW because of the way dealer aggreements are written in the US, have to say the same thing !! <p>"All dealers are independently owned and operated, BMW NA<br>cannot Force them to sell a car at MSRP. This is true"<p>BMW does not like gouging, however they cannot control it <br>accept to lightly reward dealers who dont.<p><br>Bottom line is have a contract as what I discussed earlier,<br>After my attourney Got done with the dealer on an S-2000 <br>I recieved it at MSRP, recouped my Legal costs <br>and got $500 in accessories thrown in!!<p>Now the Legal eagles will have issues with this but Hell <br>look at the election, But by the time you involve the state Attourney Generals office, the BBB, Of course the BMWNA <br>and local area Zone reps. Usually there are local dealers associations to help out as well. If they screw with you, you may be able to recieve compensation for the loss. <p><br>Hope this helps <br>take care <p><br></i><br>

DC from Cape Cod
12-04-2000, 07:34 PM

William Anderson
12-04-2000, 07:47 PM
Any oral agreement is enforceable, subject to the Statute of Frauds. What this means is that the contract does not have to be in writing if one side of the contract is to be fully performed (e.g. the car will be delivered or consideration [aka money] is paid) within one full year of the date of the oral agreement. Also, contracts for mor than $500 have to be in writing but there are several exceptions. <p> 2-201. Formal Requirements; Statute of Frauds.<p>(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section a contract for the sale of goods for the price of $500 or more is not enforceable by way of action or defense unless there is some writing sufficient to indicate that a contract for sale has been made between the parties and signed by the party against whom enforcement is sought or by his authorized agent or broker. A writing is not insufficient because it omits or incorrectly states a term agreed upon but the contract is not enforceable under this paragraph beyond the quantity of goods shown in such writing.<p><br>Such an exception is :<p>(2) Between merchants if within a reasonable time a writing in confirmation of the contract and sufficient against the sender isreceived and the party receiving it has reason to know its contents, it satisfies the requirements of subsection (1) against suchparty unless written notice of objection to its contents is given within 10 days after it is received.<p>You would be considered a merchant.<p>If the oral contract cannot be performed within one year a party to the oral contract can raise the defense that the contract falls into the Statute of Frauds. A court would most likely agree and dismiss the action.<p>Please note that this contact between you and the dealer is governed by the U.C.C. - The Uniform Commercial Code. This Code has been adopted by all 50 states and is the law governing goods (cars, etc.) thought the U.S. Also, there is built in to every contract involving goods an OBLIGATION of good faith. Essentially, good faith is fair dealing in the course of trade. It sounds like the dealer has not acted in good faith at the minimum.<p>There is also the Parole Evidence rule. Essentially this means that the contract can be supplemented, but not contradicted, by external evidence (e.g. a canceled check) that shows the existence of an oral or written contract. Courts a usually very liberal in the application of this rule. So if you have any evidence that you made an oral agreement, than that oral agreement is binding, subject of course to the statute of frauds. <p>I am not a lawyer yet, but I am in my 3rd year of law school. The above is only and overview. Consult the UCC for the actual statutes, etc.<p>Good luck!<p>William<br>


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