Roadfly.com         Roadfly Home | Features | Car Review Videos | Car Reviews | Cars For Sale | Used Car Parts Classifieds | Forum | Car Review Archives | Forum Archives Index



PDA



M3_Racer
03-28-2001, 07:52 PM
According to BMW dealer I talked to today, BMWNA told them they CANNOT sell the Demo car at this time. Any dealer that does sell is going against BMWNA, and I bet they will get a smaller allocation or a fine, at least they SHOULD. Greedy *******s.

Allen Schiano
03-28-2001, 08:21 PM
<i><br>According to BMW dealer I talked to today, BMWNA told them they CANNOT sell the Demo car at this time. Any dealer that does sell is going against BMWNA, and I bet they will get a smaller allocation or a fine, at least they SHOULD. Greedy *******s.<p></i><br>There's some weirdness going on. Many dealers out here are trying to sell the demo at very high prices. But at least one of those told me that they can't release it to the owner until later when other cars arrive. SO I guess they need to have a car to 'show' but they won't let others drive it. It's not the dealer's car!<p>Very weird.<br>

Mr. Grinch
03-28-2001, 08:35 PM
The demos are basically owned by the Dealers. They pay the interest on them, they pay the floor space for them, they pay for transport of them. <p>We may not like it, but the dealer owns it and can do whatever they please. Further more, the dealers have not signed anything saying they would not sell it. <p>If you're mad, bitch at BMWNA for pushing demos that are not needed, for a car that's sold out for the next 2 years, and forcing dealers to eat the cost of their poor choice in taste and marketing skills.<p>Dealers are not perfect, there are valid complaints against dealers, several in fact, and I'm not at all happy with the results of my attempts to do business with my local dealer. <p>But this whole fiasco with the demo units is entirely BMW's pipe dream and I can find no fault with any dealer for selling their "demo". They pay for it, they own it, they insure it, they service it, it's their name in the banks books for it, they can do with it as they please.<p>If I sold you a new M3 and said you had to display it as a demo for the next year, what would you think of that? You would not give a dam. Why should the dealer be any different? <p>I've been watching dealer allocations and what they have sitting on their lots. BMW can't keep them supplied with enough of the cars they can sell. An M3 sitting on the lot doesn't help them sell the stale units, nor will it get them additional allocations of the popular units BMW can't supply them fast enough with.<br>

StoneWalk
03-28-2001, 09:08 PM
My read on the situation is that it's much simpler.<p>BMWNA hijacked the first month of production and forced it to be almost all smurf blue demo units with full options. They shipped these cars to the dealers, and also released a note saying that they would "prefer" that the dealers keep the demos for customers to play with.<p>The dealers have to cover the costs of the demo car just like any other vehicle on their lot - it burns their money to keep it on the showroom floor. The dealer also gets to worry about who on earth will want to buy the abused smurf colored demo several months from now when the purchase frenzy has died down. Remember - the dealers didn't ask for a demo - it was forced fed to them in spite of the fact that it's the dealers money which has to cover it.<p>It also seems rather clear that BMWNA is not going to do much more than whine if/when the dealer sells the demo. At worst, it might count against their yearly M3 allocation (remaining allocation goes down by 1, as if the demo was a regularly ordered car).<p>So now, tell me - if you're a small dealer that's pre-sold your allocations of M3's for as far as the eye can see, and you don't have the financial resources to pay for yet another M3 to sit on your lot bringing in yet more people who want to buy M3's you don't have the allocations slots to provide, why would you keep it? If one of your customers wants it, and all that happens is your allocation goes down by one - that's basically just getting him his car a month early and no other downside to you (plus you now don't have to unload an ugly abused car later in the year when everyone wants a fresh new SMG in Topaz color).<p>This is all due to the way BMWNA set up the demo program.<p>There were several other ways to do it which would have been better. For example:<p>BMWNA encourages dealers to take a demo, but lets the dealers decide if they wish to order one, and what options it should have on it, since the demo is being financed on the dealers dollar.<p>BMWNA foots the bill to put demos on every dealer lot in such a way that the dealer incurs no cost for hosting the demo, and is then _required_ by BMWNA to hold it for 6 months.<p>BMWNA could have decided that after all the delays, demos should wait till long standing customer orders were filled. In fact, demos in the SMG timeframe make _far_ more sense, since that's a feature that most people really would want to experience before buying.<br>

StoneWalk
03-28-2001, 09:12 PM

RogerL
03-28-2001, 09:37 PM
This is hardly possible, since these cars don't even BELONG to the dealers. They still have BMWNA MSOs and cannot legally be titled or transfered in ANY state. Besides, why do you think that every dealer got Laguna Seca Blue?

StoneWalk
03-28-2001, 09:43 PM
<i><br>This is hardly possible, since these cars don't even BELONG to the dealers. They still have BMWNA MSOs and cannot legally be titled or transfered in ANY state. Besides, why do you think that every dealer got Laguna Seca Blue?<br></i><p>As far as I can see, this info is simply wrong, since we have a whole fleet of people who are indeed buying smurf blue demo cars. The dealers _clearly_ can title the car and deliver it to customers. Exactly what loopholes are used is left as an exercise to the interested student.<p>My belief is that the demo cars are no different legally to the dealer than any other car they have, except for a note from BMWNA asking them to keep it for a while.<br>

Jason
03-28-2001, 10:07 PM
<i><p><br></i>Great point on the SMG. What I would like to know is how someone could plan on getting SMG without ever driving it. If it becomes available this fall and someone is interested they will have to order never_having_test_driven the SMG. The only cars that will have it are the customer ordered cars and the dealerships won't send those out for test drives obviously. And there is no incentive for the dealers to even try and find a way for you to test drive it, they'll sell all their allocated M3s regardless at least until late '02. I have a little more experience with that type of transmission because my father has a 355F1 Spider. It's an interesting transmission but for me I like the stick better. Especially at low revs the shifting is a bit rough and clunky. Full throttle shifts are of course exhilarating. Of course I don't race at tracks either and never have. For those guys the F1 & SMG types offer a lot of advantages. But what I can say for these transmissions is that you_need_to_test-drive the thing before making that decision and I don't see that possible until after it's been out a good year.

F92A
03-28-2001, 10:43 PM
I bought a Ferrari 360 Modena F1 without having driven it. The dealer only had a 6MT as a demo when I placed an order. Fortunately, 360 F1 was great. I think most of us would rather test drive before buying the car but sometimes that is just not possible.

Jason
03-28-2001, 11:15 PM
<i><br>I bought a Ferrari 360 Modena F1 without having driven it. The dealer only had a 6MT as a demo when I placed an order. Fortunately, 360 F1 was great. I think most of us would rather test drive before buying the car but sometimes that is just not possible. <p></i>The Modena F1 system is supposed to have improved the around town low rev shifting roughness and clunkiness. I haven't personally drove one, my father did and agreed with that assessment. He's currently on a waiting list for the 360 spider with the F1. The thing is though, if the 355 left me with feelings of desiring improvements what should be expected about SMG? The M3 is no Ferrari and i'd worry about SMG's performance being less then that of the Ferrari. I don't see being able to catch a test drive in an SMG equipped M3 until after the waiting list orders are filled and dealers have inventory on M3s, and that will be awhile.

F92A
03-29-2001, 12:06 AM
I am sure BMW had purchased and studied 360F1s system in order to come out with a superior system. I hear even Alfa 147 Selespeed's sequential gear box is quite well made in terms of city mode. I drove an Alfa 156 Selespeed and that was superior to 355F1's system, I would think due to drive-by-wire throttle. I would be quite comfortable ordering SMG2 without a testdrive.

Mr. Grinch
03-29-2001, 05:29 AM
BMW has no need to purchase and test the 360 F1 system. <p>The developer of SMG 2, Sachs, originated some of the first F1 automatic clutch and shift systems for many teams, including ferrari. BMW is using Sachs for this development, they have no need to buy something the same developer did for Ferrari.<p>

F92A
03-29-2001, 04:19 PM
<i><br>BMW has no need to purchase and test the 360 F1 system. <p>The developer of SMG 2, Sachs, originated some of the first F1 automatic clutch and shift systems for many teams, including ferrari. BMW is using Sachs for this development, they have no need to buy something the same developer did for Ferrari.<p></i><br>F1 system for the Ferrari 355 and 360 were developed in collaboration with ZF, Magnietti Marrelli, and Bosch. Not Sachs Mannesmann.


Roadfly Home | Car Reviews | Forum Archives Index