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David T
12-10-1998, 11:45 PM
Hey guys,<br>I'm coming from the Porsche page like yours, but now have a '95 M3 (coming from a '85 Carrera). The M3 is awsome and much more enjoyable everyday!<br>My Porsche was a full euro model and had more HP, my question is how do they get so much more HP out of the M3's in europe? Are they completely different engines?<br>Sorry if you have answered this ? other times, I'm new here!

Bruce
12-10-1998, 11:48 PM
<i>:Are they completely different engines?</i><p>yep :(<p>but wait for the new E39 M5 (be here next year) will be Euro spec and have 400hp...E46 M3 (which should be here in the fall or 2000) will also be Euro spec and the rumors are 340-350hp!<p>Bruce<br>98 M roadster<br>01 E46 M3

David
12-11-1998, 10:27 AM
From what I undersand the Euro model produces 320hp vs our 240hp. However, you only notice that at autobahn speeds. The low end power curve is very similar. The engines are cousins more than siblings. Most of the parts on a Euro engine are not interchangable with the US engine. Parts of the Euro engine are even aluminum where they are cast iron in the US.<p>Now the real advice. Since you have a 95 M3 you have loads of performance options from a basic move like adding a JimC chip and Euro intake to Superchargers, and Turbos that will boost you to at least 340hp (as claimed by manufacturers of these products). Check out my web site at www.mpower.com There I talk about lots of performance options you may want to consider as well as more detailed information on the specifications of both the US and Euro versions of this car. www.mpower.com

Andy
12-12-1998, 06:30 PM
Allow me to explain.<br>My M3 is called the Evolution,though is not badged differently to yours,and has 321 brake horse power. In addition it has 6 gears,no automatic is available. Tuning cars to give them lots of horses screws them up and means they're not real BMWs.<br>Hope that cleared it up for you.<br>andy.

Bruce
12-12-1998, 08:37 PM
<i>:Tuning cars to give them lots of horses screws them up and means they're not real BMWs.</i><p>so you are saying that if somebody in Europe wanted to get more than 321 out of their car they no longer have a BMW? try telling that the the PTG team here in the US thet uses the basic euro spec engine and gets more power than 321...they are dominating their group<p>i would guess the M cars are modified more frequently than other BMW cars, but modifying them in no way makes them less of a BMW...in fact at M day USA, BMW had a concours- they had a best stock and best modified car in each group<p>Bruce<br>stock (for the moment) US M roadster

Preston
12-13-1998, 09:44 PM
<br>debadge my M3 now that I have modified it and am getting 228HP at the rear wheels? Thanks for letting me know Andy, I'll get right on it in the morning. Once I put a new ECU program in I'll be sure to buy a Kia emblem and throw it on the back just to make sure that everyone knows... WTF are you talking about?<p>Regards,<br>Preston<br>98 M3/4<br>

Bruce
12-13-1998, 10:24 PM
anybody care to buy an M roadster?<p>Bruce

Andy
12-14-1998, 10:21 AM
Certainly. Tuning BMWs with non BMW components undoubtedly makes them less BMWs. The parts are not designed by the same engineers as the rest of the car was. Instead you have a BMW/Dinan/Hartge etc amalgamation. It's like taking a Picasso painting and then adding bits and fooling around with it yourself. It still has the basis of the original but you could hardly say it is a pure Picasso. I hope that didn't go over your heads.<br>Glad to have been of some assistance.

Rick Key
12-14-1998, 12:53 PM
First of all yes they do have different motors. The Euro motor is tuned for high RPM HP. The US motor is less exotic and is tuned for more mid-range torque. In reality up to about 100mph they are very similar (I have driven both a number of times) excepting that the Euro motor seems to have a bit quicker throttle response and revs quite a bit higher. The Euro model is also geared a bit higher and in 0-60 the US model may be a bit faster (C&D 5.3 0-60 95 ///M3, fastest 0-60 on Euro model I ever saw was 5.5). Still there are other differences, steel door & hood on US model, aluminium on Euro model, floating rotors on Euro model, standard solid discs on US model, softer bushings on US model (and Euro 4 door) than on the Euro coupe ( some say this improves handing as in smoother break-away at the limit ... I really could not tell). The E46 model ///M3 is supposed to be the same on both sides of the pond with the possible exception of the floating rotors (liability concerns in the US ... should not be hard to swap out ... aout $350 for E36). My .02 cents worth.<p>Rick Key <br>95 ///M3 JimC ///Motivated<br><i>: Hey guys,<br>: I'm coming from the Porsche page like yours, but now have a '95 M3 (coming from a '85 Carrera). The M3 is awsome and much more enjoyable everyday!<br>: My Porsche was a full euro model and had more HP, my question is how do they get so much more HP out of the M3's in europe? Are they completely different engines?<br>: Sorry if you have answered this ? other times, I'm new here!<p><p></i>

Preston
12-14-1998, 01:06 PM
<br>Your an arrogant SOB aren't you?<p>Your analogy makes the assumption that a stock BMW would be analagous to a work of art as great as a Picasso. Unfortunately I would think that cars such as Ferrari's could be called Picasso's but compromises such as BMW's are never going to be a Picasso. <p>Removing some of the compromise does not water down the essence of the work, it in fact distills it and creates a purer product. Depending on what part of the distilation you desire you can create what you life. Turning a good wine into an excellent cognac takes much thought and intelligence. Drinking a good wine is one thing, creating and enjoying a fine cognac is a whole different level.<p>Regards,<br>Preston<br>98 M3/4<br>

Andy
12-15-1998, 05:44 PM
Dear Preston,<br> Thank you for the prompt reply to my message. To prove that I am not at all arrogant I will not make any mention of the spelling errors which littered your text.<br> You can speak about your own car being a compromise:the M3 Evolution certainly is not and to tamper with its very essence is folly. Your example of Ferrari was,however,quite accurate and understanding that the Evolution model is not a compromise either you are seeing things from exactly my perspective. It's not my fault BMW castrates M3s before sending them to the US.<p>Kind regards,Andy.


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