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costasz
05-04-1999, 06:29 PM
I am looking to get a new car for myself.<br>The problem is that in my price range ~40K no car out there satisfies me. I thought I wanted an S4 or an M Coupe. The S4 has a lot of bells and whistles technologically speaking but yawn styling. ( I know it's supposed to be understated ). The M Coupe looks great IMHO but technologically it's 10 years behind the S4.<br>The ideal car would have been the S4 mechanicals and build quality with the M Coupe Styling/Statement.<br>Just needed to vent....<p><p><br>

J.D.
05-04-1999, 08:28 PM
</i>I don't know about that. The BMW's suspension is probably a sophisticated as the S4's. It's may lack the awd., but it is arguable the best rwd platform. It's also thier stiffest platform ever, maybe even stiffer than the S4's. The engine itself is a technical marvel, but I don't have time to go into that. The engine has been rated one of the 10 best engines.<p>The looks might be odd, but the M coupe wasn't designed by stylists, it was designed by mechanical engineers. It amazes me how BMW could turn such a buetiful car into such an odd looking duck--it's looks have grown on me though. I don't have time to give an accurate comparision of the Bimmer and the Audi. I doubt that many people cross shop the two.<p>J.D.

costasz
05-04-1999, 08:39 PM
S4:<br>New All aluminum suspension. 4-link in the front<br>double wishbone in the rear.<br>4 piston front brakes ( disks from the A8 ).<br>twin turbo V6 - potential for 340hp just by chipping. 260 ft/lb at 1850 rpm.<br>6-speed transmission.<br>QUATTRO.<br>HID headlights.<br>(Real sunroof)<br>Climate control.<br>Same looks as A4 which are great on an A4 but<br>really boring on a car with the S4's potential.<p>BMW:<br>Suspension: same old from the E30 series.<br>struts up front<br>semi-trailing in the back.<br>Brakes: The same single piston but nicely<br>sized disks.<br>Engine: Same old enlarged 2.8 single vanos engine.<br>Transmission: 5 speed.<br>Awesome looks. I think the best looking car BMW has ever produced.<p>Did I miss anything ?<p>Definitely targetted at different markets but think how much better the M coupe could be with the S4's mechanicals.<p>

ken
05-04-1999, 10:28 PM
well, from your "list" s-4 is probably a better choice. however, i am sure that the s-4 will never be as fun as a m-coupe. If that is what you are looking for!

Josh S
05-04-1999, 10:38 PM
You know, I used to care about the technology under the covers of my cars.<p>Then I started racing a Formula Ford, which a very old-fashioned tractor motor with pushrods and a cast-iron block.<p>That experience taught me that the only thing important about the engine is how well it connects the gas pedal with the road.<p>Forget the technical details. Drive the car. If you still think the M Coupe is inferior, then that's fine. But the paper comparison isn't telling you what's important, and that is, what is it like to drive? I mean, what do you do, tell all your friends that your car is better than theirs because its bullet-item list of cool gizmos is longer than theirs?<p>Of course, I haven't driven an S4. I've driven plenty of A4s, and I don't see even the S4 version of that car being very much fun compared with an M Coupe. I drove the S6 a couple of years back (with the 20V turbo 5-cyl) and I can say that that car was still very much a yawn. I've no doubt that the S4 will blow that car away, but ... no way it'll be more fun than the M Coupe.<p>Josh<p><br><i>: S4:<br>: New All aluminum suspension. 4-link in the front<br>: double wishbone in the rear.<br>: 4 piston front brakes ( disks from the A8 ).<br>: twin turbo V6 - potential for 340hp just by chipping. 260 ft/lb at 1850 rpm.<br>: 6-speed transmission.<br>: QUATTRO.<br>: HID headlights.<br>: (Real sunroof)<br>: Climate control.<br>: Same looks as A4 which are great on an A4 but<br>: really boring on a car with the S4's potential.<p>: BMW:<br>: Suspension: same old from the E30 series.<br>: struts up front<br>: semi-trailing in the back.<br>: Brakes: The same single piston but nicely<br>: sized disks.<br>: Engine: Same old enlarged 2.8 single vanos engine.<br>: Transmission: 5 speed.<br>: Awesome looks. I think the best looking car BMW has ever produced.<p>: Did I miss anything ?<p>: Definitely targetted at different markets but think how much better the M coupe could be with the S4's mechanicals.<p></i>

Josh K
05-04-1999, 10:40 PM
I think that these two cars embody the slogans of their respective companies: Audi's Advancement/Progress through Technology and BMW's Joy in Driving. But does newer technology always translate into a better, more rewarding drive?<p>I don't think so. Sure the A/S4 may have a newer suspension design than the M, but mine offered no road feedback and was overboosted as well. My M Coupe is far better in both respects, which may seem surprising since the suspension is based on the ancient E30. Don't forget, however, that the E30 M3 is still believed by many to be the purest handling M car ever, even when compared to newer models. Audis (even the beloved Q cars) also have lousy weight distribution when compared to RWD BMW's, partially since they are based on VAG platforms that are designed for relatively inexpensive FWD cars, like VW, Skoda, and Seat. If you don't believe me, check how far forward the engine is in the A4's engine bay. Think it is any different in the S4? It's not, since it's in the same place as on FWD A4's, which need to have the engine forward to provide sufficient traction over the driving wheels. This forward weight distribution will generally result in understeer, and my A4Q was safe, but nose heavy at the limit. Conversely, the M Coupe's engine is placed farther aft, so much that one auto mag. remarked that the car was nearly mid-engined. The M changes directions much better and is more entertaining, although it is not quite as stable, than my Audi. I know this sounds old, but if it (the front-engine, 50-50 weight distribution, RWD layout) ain't broke, why fix it?<p>Technology does not always build better Audis, either. The original quattro was the best drivers' car they ever made, and that was in the early 80's! Even considering the S4, I don't think that they've come close to making a car that was as innovative OR fun to drive. And Audi is not the only victim of this technological paradox. Look at Porsche's 993 vs. 996, or the E34 M5 vs. the E39 M5, or the MKII VW GTI vs. the MKIII or MKIV… It almost seems as cars become less and less involving and communicative as time passes. This is exactly why I bought the M--it has bags of character and a slightly retro feel.<p>I'm honestly not trying to convince you to buy an M Coupe. The S4 is an incredible high-speed, all weather highway blaster that is very German, almost to a fault. I'd highly recommend the A/S4 as I enjoyed my A4Q for almost 4 years. But I think the formula looks better on paper than it feels on the road, especially if it's a winding one where its handling and feedback flaws will surface. If Audi made a car that was designed to be AWD from its inception (better engine placement), had a straight-six, and talkative steering, then I'd buy one in a heartbeat. But there's no such animal (except the Nissan Skyline GT-R), so I think the M Coupe has the best combination of performance, style, and character of any car under $50K.<p>BTW, the S4 has the smallish, solid rear discs from plebian A4's while the M Coupe's are 12.3" and ventilated. But I agree with you 100% on the looks of both cars.<p>Josh<p><br><i>: S4:<br>: New All aluminum suspension. 4-link in the front<br>: double wishbone in the rear.<br>: 4 piston front brakes ( disks from the A8 ).<br>: twin turbo V6 - potential for 340hp just by chipping. 260 ft/lb at 1850 rpm.<br>: 6-speed transmission.<br>: QUATTRO.<br>: HID headlights.<br>: (Real sunroof)<br>: Climate control.<br>: Same looks as A4 which are great on an A4 but<br>: really boring on a car with the S4's potential.<p>: BMW:<br>: Suspension: same old from the E30 series.<br>: struts up front<br>: semi-trailing in the back.<br>: Brakes: The same single piston but nicely<br>: sized disks.<br>: Engine: Same old enlarged 2.8 single vanos engine.<br>: Transmission: 5 speed.<br>: Awesome looks. I think the best looking car BMW has ever produced.<p>: Did I miss anything ?<p>: Definitely targetted at different markets but think how much better the M coupe could be with the S4's mechanicals.<br>

Simon
05-05-1999, 02:21 AM
Personally from experience... A4 brakes can not be compared with the Mcoupe's... Big time fade during many hard brakings...<p>And on paper, I am pretty sure A4 brakes will not hold up operating at 750 C. Guess which one does?<p><br>ArcSIL Mcouper in VAN.

dp
05-05-1999, 07:24 AM
the cars are so different it wouldn't be redundant. the M for play, the S for trips/rain/snow/passengers... the combined cost would about equal an M5 or E55.

costasz
05-05-1999, 10:26 AM
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Paul M. Silver M Coupe
05-05-1999, 12:44 PM
<br> . . . racing the car or using it for auto-x purposes, it doesn't really matter. <p>I have only had my M for a short time, and don't know alot about performance driving or sports cars. But, what I have learned from this board and others, is that the car is only half of the equation. It is the driver that will make the car really perform. IF you are an excellent driver, it might make a difference. <p>If not, just have fun. Get the car that speaks to you, and enjoy it.<p>I really love the styling, the M cockpit, and get a kick out of all the attention it gets. Good luck. <p>Paul M.<br>Chapel Hill, NC<br>Silver '99 M-Coupe

costasz
05-05-1999, 08:38 PM
I think I will go for the M Coupe. It just looks like it's more fun.<br>


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