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Bob H
04-07-2001, 01:34 AM
Well, last week, I started to get a squeal on the front right when turning slow turns. It was only once the car had been driven for a while,(ie warmed up). So I took it in to have it checked and fix some other issues,(fuel gauge and burnt out lamp, low fuel mileage). Well, b/c of my A032R's and the swapped upper camber plates, they wouldn't work on it. It is BMW policy to not work on modified cars. (let me clarify, they looked at the fuel sender and replaced the bulb, etc.. but wouldn't touch the wheel bearing issue).<br> Now don't pull out the Moss act, for this is not aftermarket. I am working with BMWNA to see if we can resolve this issue. I am about 90+% positive that it is the wheel bearing. I can see where they would feel that my sticker tires and swapped plates could cause the failure. I flatly reject the assumption on the plates, b/c it they have only been swapped for two weeks,(now three). And the drivers side has 3 degrees, with the pass side at 2.2. Before the swap, they were 1.5 driver and .9 pass, and were that way for over 22,000 miles. If that were the case, the drivers side would be the one that would have failed, not the pass side. I was concerned that with their knowledge that I have been out at two local PCA D.E.'s and two autocrosses,(the only "racing" ever in this car), might taint any future service on some parts. Hard to say if that is the issue.<br> I will agree that my two drivers educations and autocrosses contributed, but I have a really hard time beliving they were the main reason. I drove this car for nearly 8k miles in NYC crappy roads and traffic, and many other situations. I am notoriously hard on brakes, and am on my third set of pads,(those of you here will not find this odd for our cars). This last set is 90 compound pads, ie a more aggressive pad,(another concern of theirs). At the time I made that swap, I also put on the euro rotors. I was concerned about the massive heat that was generated by the brakes, and was looking to minimize the impact on other parts. (I feel the overheating of the brakes may have contributed). <br> So where am I going with this? I don't know. BMWNA is looking at the issue, but I am not so confident it will work out. So who is ultimately responsible? Me of course, for it is my pocket. I think a fair solution would be for them to split the cost with me, ie I pay parts they pay labor, or vice versa. I feel that my racing may have contributed, but this car has nearly 23k miles. And it had 21k before I ever raced once. This is one of those hard issues. <br> Any thoughts? I understand the dealerships position, while I may not agree. And I also belive the A032R's put a heavier load on the bearings,(stock rims). The ultimate question is did they cause the failure or merely accelerate it? My position is that they accelerated the failure. So is it my responibilty b/c I caused it to happen sooner? Is there any way to prove this? No. And that is what makes this such a hard issue for me.<br> I appreciate your thoughts. <br>-Bob Hanvey<br>'00 M Coupe<br>

Alpina22
04-07-2001, 11:26 AM
The dealer would have to prove that the aftermarket parts were the cause of the failure in order to not carry out any work. I've had similar work to one of my previous BMW's, for which I took it to the shop that carried out the modifications if/when a component failed.<p>IMHO, it is unfair to ask the dealer to replace parts under warranty that probably failed due to aftermarket equipment.<p>If you are in the NY area, I'd highly recommend Autosport Performance in Englewood NJ, (201) 816 0911. Don Fields is a good friend and his shop has an excellent reputation for M-Cars. <p><b><FONT COLOR=808080 FONT FACE="comic_sans_ms" FONTSIZE="3">Alpina22</FONT> </b><br><b><FONT COLOR=8B0000 FONT FACE="comic_sans_ms" FONTSIZE="3">00=oo=00</FONT> </b> <p><br>

Ox///M
04-07-2001, 01:56 PM
My only comment is that I truly hope they didn't say the tires had anything to do with it. The camber plates, ok sure, but the tires? Are they out of their mind?

Bob H
04-08-2001, 01:24 AM
<i><br>My only comment is that I truly hope they didn't say the tires had anything to do with it. The camber plates, ok sure, but the tires? Are they out of their mind?<br></i><p><br>Well, first to clear up some things. There are no camber plates on the car, only swapped stock ones. I would put more stress, ie more camber with aftermarket camber plates. But I don't think that is thier point of contention. If the car is modified, they must have permission from BMW to work on the car. The car is changed from a stock setup. Is it modified? That is a grey area b/c it is a stock part. I would likely agree taht it is modified according to their definition, however I belive that had nothing to do with the failure. As for the tires, look at it this way. If I were to mount racing slicks on the car, I think everyone would agree that they would help generate more lateral loading in turns, ie instead of topping out at .9 g's, I might hit 1.2 or 1.3g's. so increasing the "stickiness" of the tires will increase the load transmitted to the wheel bearings/hubs. Now, your Michelin Pilot Sports have a treadwear rating of about 220 or 240,(can't remember). The A032R's I have on my car are 60, or maybe 50. Something like R compound tires,(BFG R1's, Hoosiers), are 0 or 00. Slicks are worse. So the A032R's will theoretically be capable of creating more lateral G's, hence slightly more load on the bearings. The question is how much, and did it make a difference, ie a failure. I can't answer that, but my opinion is it didn't cause the failure, but contributed. I can't say how much, but I believe a small amount. <br>-Bob

Bob H
04-08-2001, 01:31 AM
The dealer would have to prove that the aftermarket parts were the cause of the failure in order to not carry out any work. <p>I agree 100%. They must prove the A032R's were the cause of the failure. Unfortunately, not even a tire expert could tell you if they were the sole cause, 50% or none at all. <p><br>IMHO, it is unfair to ask the dealer to replace parts under warranty that probably failed due to aftermarket equipment.<p><br>Again, I agree with your statement. The question is did my tires, and or swapped upper plates cause the failure. If the bearing was faulty to begin with, or had a slightly lower life expectancy than normal, and the tire accelerated the failure, then what? Again, I don't know. That is why I will stand by whatever decision the regional rep. makes. It is an opinion based decision and I have to respect it as such, regardless if I agree or not.<br> And let me clarify, they aren't saying it DID cause the failure. They are saying they won't look at it under warranty b/c of the modifications. BMW NA is trying to determine if they can look at it, ie are the modifications of any consequence. As an example, if I had a turbocharger, and the window motor went out, the car is modified, but not in the area of the problem. But if my clutch went out with a turbo motor, they will not look at it under warranty, ie I have to pay an inspection fee, etc..<br> I am sure you know this, but I put it out there to be clear.<br>-Bob <br>

Alpina22
04-08-2001, 10:19 AM

dp
04-08-2001, 10:34 AM
typically failed bearings wouldn't squeal, they'd make more of a grinding sound. a quick way to check is grab the top of the tire and rock it side to side (in and out). if there is a 'clunk' when you do that then the bearing is likely bad, if not it might be ok.<p>you mentioned that you have euro 2-piece rotors - that could possibly cause the squealing sound in slow turns (i'm not familiar with the exact design of these parts, but i do know that the floating rotors on one of my bikes make a nasty squealing/grinding sound at full steering lock at low speeds). maybe try applying the brakes lightly when you hear the sound and see if it goes away?<p>just some guesses here. good luck!

Gideon Archer
04-08-2001, 11:23 AM
Do your new brake pads have retaining clips to bring them off of the rotor when disengaged?<p>A mechanic friend of mine always tells me, where you think the sound is coming from is seldom where the it actually is.<p><i><br>Well, last week, I started to get a squeal on the front right when turning slow turns. It was only once the car had been driven for a while,(ie warmed up). So I took it in to have it checked and fix some other issues,(fuel gauge and burnt out lamp, low fuel mileage). Well, b/c of my A032R's and the swapped upper camber plates, they wouldn't work on it. It is BMW policy to not work on modified cars. (let me clarify, they looked at the fuel sender and replaced the bulb, etc.. but wouldn't touch the wheel bearing issue).<br> Now don't pull out the Moss act, for this is not aftermarket. I am working with BMWNA to see if we can resolve this issue. I am about 90+% positive that it is the wheel bearing. I can see where they would feel that my sticker tires and swapped plates could cause the failure. I flatly reject the assumption on the plates, b/c it they have only been swapped for two weeks,(now three). And the drivers side has 3 degrees, with the pass side at 2.2. Before the swap, they were 1.5 driver and .9 pass, and were that way for over 22,000 miles. If that were the case, the drivers side would be the one that would have failed, not the pass side. I was concerned that with their knowledge that I have been out at two local PCA D.E.'s and two autocrosses,(the only "racing" ever in this car), might taint any future service on some parts. Hard to say if that is the issue.<br> I will agree that my two drivers educations and autocrosses contributed, but I have a really hard time beliving they were the main reason. I drove this car for nearly 8k miles in NYC crappy roads and traffic, and many other situations. I am notoriously hard on brakes, and am on my third set of pads,(those of you here will not find this odd for our cars). This last set is 90 compound pads, ie a more aggressive pad,(another concern of theirs). At the time I made that swap, I also put on the euro rotors. I was concerned about the massive heat that was generated by the brakes, and was looking to minimize the impact on other parts. (I feel the overheating of the brakes may have contributed). <br> So where am I going with this? I don't know. BMWNA is looking at the issue, but I am not so confident it will work out. So who is ultimately responsible? Me of course, for it is my pocket. I think a fair solution would be for them to split the cost with me, ie I pay parts they pay labor, or vice versa. I feel that my racing may have contributed, but this car has nearly 23k miles. And it had 21k before I ever raced once. This is one of those hard issues. <br> Any thoughts? I understand the dealerships position, while I may not agree. And I also belive the A032R's put a heavier load on the bearings,(stock rims). The ultimate question is did they cause the failure or merely accelerate it? My position is that they accelerated the failure. So is it my responibilty b/c I caused it to happen sooner? Is there any way to prove this? No. And that is what makes this such a hard issue for me.<br> I appreciate your thoughts. <br>-Bob Hanvey<br>'00 M Coupe<br> <p></i><br>

Bob H
04-08-2001, 01:15 PM
Do your new brake pads have retaining clips to bring them off of the rotor when disengaged?<p><br>Gideon,<br> No, the 90 compound pads do not have retaining clips. But that causes the rattling. I am thinking what dp said may be the cause. I agree it is seldom what we think.<br>-Bob

Bob H
04-08-2001, 01:17 PM
dp,<br> It is more of a grinding sound. And when the bearings go on our cars, or the starting to in the case that I think it might be, they are hard to detect by your mentioned test. However, you may be right...I think I am not going to worry aobut it for now. The Euro rotors may indeed be causing the sound, i.e. as they get heated up and flex around the expand enough to touch the caliper mounting bracket in turns. <br>-Bob<p><i><br>typically failed bearings wouldn't squeal, they'd make more of a grinding sound. a quick way to check is grab the top of the tire and rock it side to side (in and out). if there is a 'clunk' when you do that then the bearing is likely bad, if not it might be ok.<p>you mentioned that you have euro 2-piece rotors - that could possibly cause the squealing sound in slow turns (i'm not familiar with the exact design of these parts, but i do know that the floating rotors on one of my bikes make a nasty squealing/grinding sound at full steering lock at low speeds). maybe try applying the brakes lightly when you hear the sound and see if it goes away?<p>just some guesses here. good luck!<p></i><br>

sedwards
04-10-2001, 10:39 AM
Bob,<p>Hey! It's Stuart from the Corpus time trial. I read your post, but I wouldn't expect much help from BMW! I just had my car into John Robert's BMW here in Austin. After I warped my rotors at 4,500 miles I brought it in to have the brakes checked (fixed) and all their splendid mechanic could discover was rust on the rotors. I tried to explain to these master mechanics that the rotors were cast iron and weren't painted therefore they rust when they get wet. They actually wrote on the work order that they recommended that the owner "drive the car more frequently". That was their cure for warped rotors! Splendid work guys! They also indicated that if I used aftermarket rotors or pads it would completely void the warranty on the entire brake system! Amazing!<p>They did actually fix the rear hatch (I know, it's going to break again but I have a philosophical problem with paying $38,000 for a car and having to fix it myself when the warranty is still valid) They could not fix the movement in the driver's seat, nor could they find the squeaks and rattles which just bug the crap out of me. All this after waiting over 4 weeks to get a service appointment. I don't think Lexus, Toyota or Infiniti have much to be concerned about in the area of customer service. <p>With all the mods you have done to your car, there probably is no area that they will warrant! I love my Coupe, but dread having anything go wrong with it given the limited capacity of the dealer here in Austin. I am on a waiting list for a new M3, but I doubt I'll take it given the way the BMW approaches service.


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