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tsil m3
04-06-2002, 08:04 PM
I have had 2 E46 M3's...great car my friends. I am now selling my 2002 M3 [censored] silver. I blew the engine on the 2001CB, warped 3 sets of rotors, warped euro rotors, and I have decided not to go through those issues and tracking my 2002 M3. I am back to my 01 Boxster S.

Let me tell you how I fell...M3....great sports coupe, GT, whatever you want to call it. However, when I first got my M3 last April 2001, I said to myself "finally, a car I dont need to do anything to, no aftermarket crap to make this car fly!" wll, thats not the case. For street use, WOW, what a car. For track, autox and street use.....dont think so....

The numbers:

M3 sticker $53,000
Brembo Rotors (or even Euro only then) $1,000
Exhaust (car needed one!) $1,500
Coilover (if you want to be competitive and not look like and SUV) $1,300
Anyway, total that all up and your at $60,000 with the work fees, etc.

Porsche Boxster S (stock as hell) every single option I can almost get..full leather, PSM, litronic, seal grey, I got BREMBOS already there, etc etc. $63,000.

M3 is indeed faster, but not quicker my friends. That Porsche gearing, wow! 2ng gear 74miles, 3rd 108 miles, etc. At limerock, both great cars, but where the M3 wins in HP wars, doesnt even come close to the handling of the Boxster S.

So, before I blow another engine, I am selling it. I love the car, I do, but I had to decide between the two. Oh ya, did I mention the joy of driving w/ the roof down.

I know that I am going to the BASHED for writing this, and I love BMW. YET, until BMW improves with the following:

1. Less weight (no need for more HP) Boxster is proof of that.
2. Better brakes (again, for the street only driver they are great) but for the track....

PLEASE, someone explain to me how BMW can have 12.8 in in front and 12.9 in rear (WHY? how does that make sense) and WHY single piston all around??

3. When I can get a BMW for less $$$ than a Porsche BUT NOT HAVE TO PUT 5-10K in the car once I get it to be competitive, I WILL THEN BY ANOTHER M3 (or maybe a Z5)

still got my 4.6is, so I am not going far from BMW

In case you wonder, I ran 65 secs with my M3 on streets and ran 65 with Boxster S with ALL SEASON P7000's as well. I ran 62's with M3 with R1A's...Boxster should match that with R compound tires. On "paper", M3 should be faster!

I'LL see you M3's at the track at the braking point...with your warped rotors and after 10 minutes in the session, I hope you're not behind me when you lose the brakes! Did I say Brembo upgrade needed (another 3k right there!)

Mr. Practical
04-06-2002, 08:10 PM

Johnc
04-06-2002, 08:43 PM
have beat the heck out of the car on the road and at the track. Sounds like you must have been pretty hard on the car from your post. I realize the car just withstand some abuse, but I wonder if anyone has blown an engine just driving this car a little aggressively and on the road only as most people buying it will do.

VrooMPoweR
04-06-2002, 08:45 PM

tsil m3
04-06-2002, 08:47 PM
Porsche the EXACT same way and dont have that issues. Either way, the point was not only the engine issue (if indeed is or not an issue)... the fact that the car needs 5-10k in upgrades to be competitive. Ends up being the price of a Porsche almost.

I have other cars w/ a back sit....and my Bosxter S even comes w/ a sup holder now! hehe

StahlGrauM3
04-06-2002, 09:08 PM
Hey Boxster S is great car no doubt... however, they have blown a LOT more engines than the M3. Last stat I heard was that 30% of all Boxsters have had their engines replaced.

Good luck working on the car yourself... how much is an oil change... $150?

also... watch out for that oil starvation issue on corners...No dry sump in the P car :-(

Oh and don't forget to build a full roll cage in your Boxster or else forget about running with most clubs.

You'll also need a trailer or support car to carry your track tires and tools.

But hey...it's a cool car and the brakes do rule!

bataanboy
04-06-2002, 09:14 PM
M3 certainly is quicker here is proof from MOTOR TREND

BOXTER S 0-60 5.39 1/4 mile 13.93

M3 0-60 4.65 1/4 mile 13.18

StahlGrauM3
04-06-2002, 09:16 PM

tsil m3
04-06-2002, 09:20 PM
probs, maybe the first 2.5 liters did. The roll bar the car has fits the "yardstick" rule for me. So I can get in to any event, HOWEVER, it is an issue for taller people. I am 5'8'' and dont have that prob.

The track tires is another "issue", so I will run with my V700's on street and track for the time being. I see guys with little hitches on the boxster's, however, I didnt want that way out for me.

I really do love the M3, my prob is now what if I blow another engine. will BMW "good will" that one as well? I see myself having to spend a lot of $$ in aftermarket stuff in order to stay competitive.

Pocono East, North, Limerock and autox's....the STOCK M3 is smoked in the infield by E30's, Porsche's and other more balanced cars. Once you start doing coilovers, brakes, and maybe try reducing some weight. the issue becomes simple....is the M3 worth 60ish K? In my personal opinion, its not.

Having said all that, I have never ever had 2 cars that are the same back to back. I had two E46's, and I am glad I did. The issues BMW faces is what is the next step....I believe it should be concentrating on better power to weight rather that just "bigger engines". & better brakes.

I really dont understand the single piston calipers and the thin rotors?

tsil m3
04-06-2002, 09:24 PM
test. They do 0-60 and 1/4 miles. Put them on a 20 minute session, or a "race" setting and I bet that idea of M3 being "faster" on paper is a lot less in "real" life track situation.

you're right though, I never saud M3 wasnt faster.

///fiti
04-06-2002, 09:33 PM

tsil m3
04-06-2002, 09:37 PM

///fiti
04-06-2002, 09:43 PM

Mike
04-06-2002, 11:14 PM
Putting 60K into a street car and then trying to make it a race car is the wrong approach. If you really want to run that hard than buy a real race car, probably at half the price. How a car performs will be determined by the track. Road Atlanta is a high horsepower track and the Boxster S and the 911 as well can't compete with the M3. On tighter tracks with more twisties a nimble car will fare better.

Dr. K
04-07-2002, 12:01 AM
That is inappropriate, as they are totally different cars.

Obviously the Boxster does it for you, so stick with it.

grind avoidinghigh speed shifts into 2nd?
04-07-2002, 12:10 AM
Is this true???

NYC SMG M3
04-07-2002, 02:08 AM

NYC SMG M3
04-07-2002, 02:10 AM

tsil m3
04-07-2002, 07:47 AM
compare same driver w/ the two different cars. Thats it, not that I did 65 or 68. the purpose was to compare my two cars with me driving.

See what I meant about the rotors. On a cold day dude, on a track that is not even hard on brakes, you warped your rotors.

Nobody has explained to me why its still single piston all around and how it makes sense that the front rotors are smaller?

tsil m3
04-07-2002, 07:52 AM
Iagain, the point is that I would love to keep the M3, but the idea was that I always thought that I wouldnt need to upgrade anything on that car, like a Porsche. Yet I found myself having to get new brakes, new exhaust, and coil overs, which brings the price of a M3 to 60K. I wished BMW;s next M3 is lighter and has better brakes.

tsil m3
04-07-2002, 07:57 AM
pocono w/ north, east, south course, Summit point, and watkins glen. Out of those, Watkins is possibly the only fast and HP track. I would prefer the M3, yet the brakes...forget it.

My point again is that it is faster!!! No doubt it it, yet a 20 minute session anywhere, yet alone Watkins Glen, you wont be able to stop if you go max out.

As for why I dont have a "race car", most people get the M3 because they say its the best car they can get with a back seat for all the "uses". I agree!! However, back seat is not an issue for me. I want a covertible that I can enjoy everyday, a great commuter, and a car that tracks (especially auto x's) very well. For me!! the best car is the Boxster S.

NYC SMG M3
04-07-2002, 09:58 AM
so my point is that your Bxtr-S are not comparable with your first times in the M3 when it was bone-stock. I've driven the S, and I think I can just barely be marginal faster through the Eses (where the M3 understeers a bit and the Bxtr-S is more neutral) but the M3 has the advantage through out the rest of the turns, and swallows the S in the straights
However I take your point about the brakes, and as I've benn telling since the first AutoX,it is the only weak point of the car. Even the street tires, I was surprised at how well they wear out evenly at the track (AutoX is another issue).
I think for the brake issue I jsut have to adpat my driving and don't do 10/10 on braking points on all-laps and just rather brake at 7/10 and leave the max performance for the 2 hot laps.

Mperor
04-07-2002, 10:48 AM

psybj
04-07-2002, 11:09 AM
comparing M3 to the S isn't right. The smaller P should be quicker on track.

psybj

tsil m3
04-07-2002, 02:35 PM
twitchiest car I ever owned. Great fun, great engine, git no comparo w/ S. Anyway, once again, I'm comparing these two cause thats what I have! Thats it

tsil m3
04-07-2002, 02:40 PM
I got 61.7 in the other M3, I would have gone faster with this one. The issue I have (between my 2 cars) is that the M3 is not that much faster stock at all. However, you need to do springs, definately brakes, and then the car becomes very very good. Thats 60K dude. For autox's and tight tracks, I would rather have the S. For my daily driving, depends the time of year! hehe

agree w/ you on that one Tsil M3
04-07-2002, 02:42 PM


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