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Fred Meloan
10-01-2002, 12:09 PM
Sales of the 3 Series this September increased 20.3% over sales of last September. For the first 9 months of 2002 sales of the 3 Series have increased 8.5% when compared to the same period of 2001.

For those of you who may be interested sales of the Mercedes Benz C Class totaled 4,810 units in September, up 4.8% from the 4,590 units sold last September. YTD sales of the C Class total 48,998 units, up 38.9% from the 35,274 cars sold during the first three quarters of 2001.

Exact sales figures published this morning by BMW NA are as follows:
<PRE><B>
MODEL SEP 02 YTD 02 SEP 01 YTD 01
323i (E46) 0 0 0 102
325i (E46) 3,128 29,313 3,784 32,085
325Ci (E46) 528 6,322 506 6,591
325Ci convertible (E46) 683 7,269 625 7,103
325i sport wagon (E46) 116 890 181 2,814
325xi 1,244 8,856 33 33
325xi sport wagon 153 1,383 0 0
330i 755 8,605 1,199 14,256
330Ci 547 5,647 449 6,683
330Ci convertible 648 6,537 298 5,967
330xi 399 3,893 46 46
M3 (E46) 251 4,007 43 1,964
M3 Convertible (E46) 206 2,947 0 1,258
M3 Convertible (E36) 0 0 78 78
TOTALS 8,712 85,723 7,242 78,980
</B></PRE>

<I><B><BIG><A HREF="mailto: FDMeloan@bmwofarlington.com">Fred Meloan</A></I><BR>Internet Manager<BR>BMW of Arlington (Virginia)</BIG></B>

Jason
10-01-2002, 12:11 PM

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:13 PM
No wonder we don't count many Sept 01 fails. Although that data almost can't be accurate. That's a tenth of a car per US dealer... Well maybe they really did cut back prior to model changeover?

dabadboy
10-01-2002, 12:14 PM
I'm assuming about 5000-5250 M3 Coupes for 02' total and about 3400-3600 Convertibles ..... Are they increasing for next year?<br><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/dabadboy/thumb.jpg">

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:14 PM
Perhaps the factory really does go into limp-along mode in September each year. Look at the 01 figures!

Jason
10-01-2002, 12:15 PM

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:16 PM
BMW is reportedly limited by the number of S54 engines they can make (and heck they seem to have quality control issues on the ones they do crank out!). US deliveries in the ~1000/month grand-total (coupes plus cabs) seems about where it's going to run, and that's about where it's at now.

comparison? Thx Jason
10-01-2002, 12:17 PM

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:17 PM
8000-odd total M3's to the US in calendar 2002, and we're on the 9th month - that's right near my 800 to 1000 per month figure. Looks like it's 1000 a month most of the time, with occassional slow months like Sept.

///Leo
10-01-2002, 12:33 PM

marauder
10-01-2002, 12:34 PM
<IMG SRC=\"http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020921/capt.1032612991.germany_oktoberfest_dmun102.jpg\">

A waitress in traditional dress whistles her way through the crowd while carrying a load of beersteins to thirsty customers during the opening of the world renown <B>Oktoberfest</B> beer festival, the world\'s biggest, in Munich, southern Germany, Saturday, Sept. 21, 2002. Millions of visitors from around the world are expected. (AP Photo/Diether Endlicher)

<A HREF=\"http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020921/168/2amrs.html\">http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020921/168/2amrs.html</A><br>-----
'01 M Coupe

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:35 PM

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:38 PM
The US alone has consumed over 8000 M3's year to date for 2002. That's 9 months of time, or about 900 a month. Assuming a 5 day work week and pretty much no vacation, that's 45 a month just to supply the observed US consumption.

In fact, the US consumes more like 1/3 of all M3's worldwide, so daily production in Regensburg is more like 120 units per day, not 40.

///MML
10-01-2002, 12:39 PM
YTD: M3 around 4000, 330ci around 5600, 325ci around 6300. They should cut production of the M3 to more like 10% of the total, right now its 25%. Wounder what the M5 is relative to total 5 series?

///Leo
10-01-2002, 12:45 PM

///Leo
10-01-2002, 12:49 PM
I even wrote the number down while at the plant.

But tis not that important... :-)

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:50 PM
BMW tripled the plant capacity in 2002 - I suspect you saw it prior to that time.

Evidence is almost irrefutable that they are making more than 40 per day. We're getting more than that into the US alone!

///Leo
10-01-2002, 12:55 PM

spookm3
10-01-2002, 12:56 PM
...which is incorrect. Any cars sold in September were likely built in July or August.

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:57 PM

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 12:58 PM
Still pondering the strange dip in apparent production volume...

Codeboy
10-01-2002, 01:11 PM

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 01:16 PM
He appears to be worried that there aren't enough 3 series coupes to make his M3 feel exclusive. It just so happens that BMW sells a ton more of 4 door 3 series, in no small part because they are the only ones offered in touring and 4wd configurations, and the 4 doors appeal to a larger audience.

I have no need for BMW to make lots of lesser version of the 3 series with the same door count as mine to prop up my M3 ego.

///MML
10-01-2002, 01:18 PM

Codeboy
10-01-2002, 01:22 PM
Looks like the number of m3 produced is limited by factory ability (engines ??), and the number of 3 series coupes is limited by demand.

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 01:22 PM
Trying to prop up resale values of $50k M3's by making tons of 325ci's is silly. In fact there's a good case to be made that M3's would be more exclusive if the 325ci didn't exist at all, but if that were true, M3's would cost more like a Porsche.

BMW's only snob-appeal resale-value oriented car is the Z8, which indeed does not follow the normal-car depreciation curve, and is held to tiny production volume, thus keeping it exclusive enough to rub elbows with other over-$100k collector cars which tend to live in sealed chambers and driven a few hundred miles per year.

The M3 is not that kind of car. It's intended to be driven, and is priced and made in volume accordingly. And yes virginia this means it'll follow a relatively normal used car depreciation curve.

2003_M3
10-01-2002, 01:31 PM
numbers posted here by fred meloan and you'll see that stonewalk is right, about 40 cars per day for US alone (assuming 5 day work week)

Fred Meloan
10-01-2002, 01:33 PM
<PRE><B>
MODEL JUL 02 YTD 02 JUL 01 YTD 01
323i (E46) 0 0 0 102
325i (E46) 2,795 22,891 4,021 24,556
325Ci (E46) 705 5,070 629 5,486
325Ci convertible (E46) 749 5,693 819 5,348
325i sport wagon (E46) 184 673 333 2,283
325xi 1,112 6,596 0 0
325xi sport wagon 111 1,108 0 0
330i 836 6,958 1,567 11,506
330Ci 630 4,519 823 5,286
330Ci convertible 729 5,226 583 5,024
330xi 539 3,090 0 0
M3 (E46) 501 3,330 168 1,729
M3 Convertible (E46) 389 2,413 284 944
TOTALS 9,280 67,567 9,227 62,264
</B></PRE>

<PRE><B>
MODEL AUG 02 YTD 02 AUG 01 YTD 01
323i (E46) 0 0 0 102
325i (E46) 3,294 26,185 3,745 28,301
325Ci (E46) 724 5,794 599 6,085
325Ci convertible (E46) 893 6,586 1,130 6,478
325i sport wagon (E46) 101 774 350 2,633
325xi 1,016 7,612 0 0
325xi sport wagon 122 1,230 0 0
330i 892 7,850 1,551 13,057
330Ci 581 5,100 948 6,234
330Ci convertible 663 5,889 645 5,669
330xi 404 3,494 0 0
M3 (E46) 426 3,756 192 1,921
M3 Convertible (E46) 328 2,741 314 1,258
TOTALS 9,444 77,011 9,474 71,738
</B></PRE>

///Leo
10-01-2002, 01:40 PM

lurking
10-01-2002, 02:03 PM

Jorg
10-01-2002, 02:06 PM
<br><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/jorg/OnTrackSig.jpg">

///MML
10-01-2002, 04:07 PM
Stone, with all due respect you contribute a lot on this board but you don't understand economics. Take Merc's C-class for example. they have c240, c320 and c32-AMG (similar to BMW Line). The c32 is limited to about 1000 cars per year. Merc resale value on C-class AMG cars far exceeds BMW M3. I live in socal and can probably see 5 e46 m3's in a given day. I have only seen 2 c32's in probably 6 mos. Limited production will always force the price up at any price point if its desirable. A $100k price point has nothing to do with it.

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 04:24 PM
We can dig into the detailed numbers to see if a C320 or C32 has better or worse real-world resale value than an M3 or a 325ci, but I don't accept your assertion that the sales volume of the C32 has anything to do with it being on a better or worse depreciation curve than the M3.

If small-volume sales was all that was needed, we should be seeing the very rare S54 Mcoupe worth tons of money compared to the more common Mroadster and M3. In fact, it appears to follow the same or even worse depreciation curve as the M3.

Small volume alone cannot support abnormally slow depreciation curves on sub $100k cars. It has much more to do with the number of cars made against the size of the market for such cars, quality and prestige of the car compared to readily available competition, introduction of new or improved versions of the same car, the health of the economy and the buying habits of the people who tend to own the particular car in question.

Infiniti Q45's are made in much lower quantity than Lexus LS400's and LS430's, yet Lexus has the better resale value - how does your analysis work on that example? Or perhaps we should examine the Plymouth Prowler - a very unique car and one trading in the modest-cost segment in very small numbers - it has depreciated like a normal car - why?

StoneWalk
10-01-2002, 04:32 PM
I just ran some quick searches on C32's and M3's on various used car sites. Restricting M3's to coupes (not cabs), the two cars sold for within a few thousand dollars of each other new, give or take options.

I found a couple dozen C32's ranging rather evenly from $43k to $53k depending on age and condition.

I found about 6 dozen M3's coupes ranging rather evently from $42k to $55k depending on age and condition.

I detect no evidence in favor of your claim that C32's depreciate much more slowly than M3's. Got anything for me on that subject? Needs to have both M3 and C32 numbers from same source...

spookm3
10-01-2002, 04:55 PM
I'm with StoneWalk 100% on this...limited production Benzes do not make their resale any better. I had a C43 AMG, which was even more limited in production than the C32...only 550 per year for two years. They are not holding their value any better or worse than other $45-60k high performance sedans, regardless of production numbers.

In fact, while shopping for a 2003 CLK55 AMG spot, I've come across dealers trying to push me into 2003 C32s with substantial discounts...not something you'll find at BMW dealers with M3s in Southern California.

StahlGrauM3
10-01-2002, 07:47 PM
in the same volumes as M3


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