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02-25-2003, 06:33 PM
i quote what she wrote:

so they (her guy friends) say the M3
didn't impress them as much as the Mercedes E class. have you driven the E class?

02-25-2003, 06:35 PM
<br><br><br><br><a href=""><img src="" border=0></a><br><br><br>

02-25-2003, 06:38 PM
<B>CBsaksiri</B> Sunnyvale, CA
<A HREF=""><IMG SRC="" border=0></A>

02-25-2003, 06:40 PM
I have a 2002 SMG2 M3 Coupe and drove my friend's 2003 E500 w/ Sports Package. I'd say that E500 is a far more comfortable car than M3. The V8's big torque does make a lot of difference in terms of acceleration. I'd say that E500 is a very satisfying car but a bit boring to the driver. I'd say that M3 would still be the car that delivers better driving experience than E500 in any non-straight line.

02-25-2003, 06:50 PM

02-25-2003, 06:51 PM
so much electronic involvement with steering, braking, etc.... Look at what BMW is doing with their electronic steering and braking...

A revolution in driving pleasure - BMW reinvents steering.
Active Steering from BMW gives the driver unprecedented support and assistance but keeps him in full control.

BMW is once again revolutionizing the world of driving, or to be more precise, the world of steering. Introducing Active Steering, a unique and innovative new system controlling the position of the front wheels precisely according to the driver's commands. BMW is setting a new standard in agility, comfort and safety.
In the future BMW drivers will benefit directly and noticeably from this breakthrough in technology - on fast stretches of the highway, on winding country roads, and when parking in town, and will enjoy even greater motoring pleasure in the process, with Active Steering further enhancing the typical virtues of BMW steering. Retaining its authentic feeling and feedback from steering in every respect, the car is even more dynamic than before. At the same time Active Steering raises motoring comfort to a new standard through its ergonomic benefits. Last but not least, Active Steering sets a new benchmark in traffic safety, ideally supplementing BMW's Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) suspension system, making the entire process of steering the car even more pleasant and relaxing than before, which helps to reduce driving fatigue to an absolute minimum.

In contrast to the systems developed by other manufacturers working on steer-by-wire alone, without any mechanical link between the steering wheel and the front wheels, BMW's Active Steering still incorporates a mechanical steering column permanently connecting the steering wheel with the front wheels of the car. This not only guarantees full maintenance of all steering functions even if one of the assistance systems is not operating properly or breaks down altogether, but is also the prerequisite for the authentic steering "feel" the driver appreciates so much. By contrast, a steer-by-wire system alone is unable to simulate such realistic feedback to the driver. This is precisely why BMW is now becoming the first car maker in the world to consciously opt for Active Steering as the trend setting technology leading to all-out steer-by-wire.

Development of Active Steering has now reached such a high standard that it will be introduced soon in one of BMW's next model generations. BMW will therefore be the first car maker in the world to offer the BMW customer the full pleasure of dynamic motoring with enhanced safety and motoring comfort all in one - and all this with the authentic steering experience so typical of a BMW.

The core element of the revolutionary Active Steering system is the steering override function provided by a planetary gearbox integrated into a split steering column. Acting through a self-inhibiting gear wheel, an electric motor intervenes as required in this planetary gearbox, either increasing or taking back the steering angle of the front wheels. A further component is the individually controlled power steering (similar to BMW Servotronic already well known in the market) controlling steering forces as required. Interacting with one another, these two components adjust the steering angle of the front wheels and the steering forces on the steering wheel to the respective situation on the road and the driver's requirements.

Under normal driving conditions Active Steering varies the steering transmission particularly at low and medium speeds, thus making the car even more agile and nimble in its behavior. In critical situations Active Steering serves furthermore to change the steering angles of the wheels, thus stabilizing the car faster and more efficiently than the driver would be able to himself. And this offers dynamic driving advantages in many situations.

Active Steering will give the driver significant dynamic driving benefits typically on country roads, where Active Steering chooses a more direct steering trans-mission ratio than a conventional steering system, making the car even more agile and nimble in its response. Quite appropriately, steering behavior of this kind is described as that typical "kart feeling", the driver enjoying an even more agile and dynamic motoring experience. When driving at very low speeds, on the other hand, for example when parking in town, the driver only has to turn the steering wheel twice thanks to this direct steering transmission ratio in order to maneuver his BMW smoothly and without the slightest effort into the most confined parking space.

At higher speeds, for example on the Autobahn, the steering transmission ratio becomes increasingly indirect up to the level of a conventional steering (or even beyond). The level of steering forces increasing at the same time prevents any undesired and unwanted movement of the steering, giving the driver a significantly higher standard of driving stability. Active Steering serves to carry out driving maneuvers at high speeds even more spontaneously, keeping the driver safely in control through purely intuitive movements of the steering.

Whenever driving stability is limited, for example on wet or slippery roads or in crosswinds, Active Steering quickly intervenes and improves driving stability so significantly that BMW's DSC Dynamic Stability Control only has to intervene where really necessary. This is also the case when applying the brakes on surfaces varying in grip (for example with the left-hand wheels running on dry asphalt offering good and secure grip, while the wheels on the right are running on a loose embankment or road shoulder) or when suddenly changing direction, for example to steer clear of an animal or an obstacle abruptly looming up in front of the car.

BMW Active Steering therefore offers a unique solution in solving the conflict of interests typical of every conventional steering, providing harmony of agility, stability and comfort never seen in the past. Thanks to Active Steering, the BMW driver will benefit in future from significantly enhanced driving comfort, safety and maneuverability, enjoying typical BMW driving pleasure even more than before.

Redefining the joy of dynamic driving - Active Steering makes driving a BMW an even greater experience.

BMW's Active Steering, a true breakthrough in steering technology, supports the driver at all speeds, particularly in the lower and medium speed range where dynamic steering offers a genuine increase in driving pleasure.

Munich. A typical bend on a winding country road becoming tighter and tighter all the time, an Alpine pass twisting through the mountains, a high-speed stretch of the Autobahn - everyday situations for the motorist where one quality is of particular significance: the correct steering response.

In a situation like this the car must meet a wide range of different requirements. At medium speeds, for example, the front wheels must respond as directly as possible to the driver's commands. With increasing road speeds on the other hand, the steering transmission should become less direct. The demands made on the steering system therefore vary most significantly from case to case, with the overriding requirement that the driver always receives authentic feedback from the steering system itself.

Now BMW has succeeded in meeting all these seemingly contradictory requirements without making the slightest compromise. Introducing BMW Active Steering, a worldwide innovation in dynamic steering control, solving the fundamental conflict of interest characteristic of every conventional steering system, by providing the perfect combination of agility, stability and comfort.

On a conventional steering system the driver's steering commands are always conveyed the same way due to the strictly defined transmission ratio between the steering wheel and the front wheels of the car (even if the transmission becomes more progressive with increasing wheel lock). Direct steering that would be ideal at low speeds remains direct, although a much more indirect steering transmission ratio would be appropriate at high speeds in order to compensate for the physically induced increase in steering sensitivity as a function of higher speeds on the road. Conversely, the same also applies to indirect steering: The ideal steering transmission ratio at high speeds makes the process of steering hard work at lower speeds, requiring the driver to turn the steering wheel much more and with much higher forces than necessary related to the position of the wheels on the road. Conventional steering systems, therefore, are always a compromise of these two extremes.

BMW's innovative Active Steering now revolutionizes the entire steering process by overriding this seemingly insoluble conflict of interests, varying the steering angle of the front wheels specifically according to the driver's requirements. In this process, Active Steering combines the advantages of all electronic steer-by-wire steering without any mechanical link between the steering wheel and the front wheels (purely electronic transmission of signals) with the authentic steering feedback that only a mechanical steering system is currently able to provide. Accordingly, Active Steering sets a new standard in agility, comfort and safety on the road.

In technical terms the various functions and benefits offered by Active Steering are based on the principle of overlapping steering angles: An electromechanical adjuster between the steering wheel and the steering gearbox adds an additional steering angle to the angle predetermined by the driver. The core element of BMW's revolutionary Active Steering is therefore the override steering effect provided by the planetary gearing with two incoming and one outgoing shaft integrated in the split steering column. One incoming shaft is connected with the steering wheel, the second is driven by an electric motor via a self-inhibiting gear wheel transmission and thus serving to reduce the transmission ratio. The overall steering angle finally coming out on the outgoing shaft is made up of the angle determined by the driver on the steering wheel and the angle determined by the electric motor. Steering forces when turning the wheels, however, are not determined by the electric motor, but rather by conventional power steering assistance. Additional components of Active Steering are the separate control unit and various sensors for determining both current driving conditions and the driver's commands. And last but not least, Active Steering communicates directly with the DSC control unit through the car's on-board communication network.

Depending on driving conditions, Active Steering either increases or reduces the steering angle on the front wheels. At low speeds the actuator follows the driver's steering commands, increasing wheel lock at the front and reducing the effort required in steering. On the road this means a far more direct steering transmission ratio than with conventional cars up to a medium speed level, steering forces remaining comfortably low as with BMW's well-known Servotronic.

At high speeds the actuator operates by reducing the steering angle. This reduces the steering lock on the front wheels and makes the steering transmission ratio more indirect, thus providing the high standard of a conventional BMW steering on fast stretches of the Autobahn. Steering forces are increased in the process in order to prevent any undesired movement of the steering wheel.

In critical situations on the road Active Steering modifies the position of the drive wheels determined by the driver, thus stabilizing the car much faster and more efficiently than the driver would be able to do himself.

Making its appearance soon in the first BMW model series and then being introduced step-by-step in other BMWs, Active Steering offers the BMW driver even greater motoring pleasure in future - motoring pleasure the driver will enjoy directly in every situation. Quite simply, this is because Active Steering enhances the typical virtues of BMW steering, making the car even more agile and nimble at low and medium speeds while retaining that authentic steering feedback and even offering a genuine "kart" feeling at low speed levels.

Active Steering also serves to enhance steering comfort. While the driver has to turn the steering wheel approximately three times in a current BMW from lock to lock, active steering reduces this control process to just two turns of the steering wheel by cutting back the steering wheel angle at low and medium road speeds. The driver will immediately enjoy the reduced steering force, for example when maneuvering in confined parking spaces or when taking a sharp turn in town.

Crossing over your hands on the steering wheel, for example on a winding mountain pass, is hardly necessary any more with Active Steering. So while the driver often has no choice in a car with conventional steering but to cross over his arms, in a BMW equipped with Active Steering his hands will always remain where they should be: in exactly the right position on the steering wheel. This guarantees unrestricted, smooth and easy operation of the multifunction buttons and SMG paddles shifting the Sequential Manual Gearbox directly on the steering wheel, ensuring superior safety and response in every situation on the road.

The greater agility and enhanced dynamic performance provided by Active Steering comes out particularly clearly in the slalom test, simulating sudden steering maneuvers at low and medium speeds: Active Steering gives the driver much better control of the car than conventional steering, combined with significantly enhanced steering precision and an equally significant reduction of steering forces. And ultimately, the greater comfort and control provided by Active Steering helps to keep the driver fit and avoid any fatigue at the wheel.

With increasing road speeds, Active Steering reduces the steering wheel lock and makes the steering transmission ratio more indirect. To put it in simple terms, the driver would now have to move the steering wheel further than at low speeds in order to obtain the same lock on the front wheels. This efficiently avoids common mistakes at the wheel, for example with the driver abruptly wrenching round the steering wheel when panicking at high speeds. A further advantage of an indirect steering transmission ratio at high speeds, finally, is the perfect straight-line tracking stability.

Agility, comfort and - last but not least - safety. These are the benefits provided by Active Steering acting as an ideal match for BMW Dynamic Stability Control (DSC). In critical driving situations - for example when suddenly changing direction at high speeds on the highway in order to pass another vehicle and move back in line - all vehicles tend to oversteer with the car following a smaller curve radius than dictated by the steering and therefore provoke potentially violent yaw reactions (with the car spinning round its vertical axis), and the driver possibly losing control of his car altogether. In such a situation Active Steering intervenes by dampening any yaw motion right from the start, stabilizing the car smoothly and efficiently, with the driver and passengers hardly noticing the system at all. As a result, DSC Dynamic Stability Control featured in the driver's BMW is not required to intervene to the same extent as usual. And unlike DSC which reduces road speed (albeit in some cases only very slightly) through intervention of the brakes, Active Steering only modifies the steering angle and therefore keeps its stabilizing effect almost unnoticeable. DSC therefore only intervenes if Active Steering is unable to keep the car under control, meaning that the two systems are a perfect match, with Active Steering supplementing DSC in an ideal manner.

In contrast to systems being developed by other carmakers with the focus on steer-by-wire alone, without any mechanical link between the steering wheel and the drive wheels, Active Steering still features a mechanical steering column permanently connecting the steering wheel and the front wheels. This guarantees fully functioning steering even if any of the assistance systems might be defective or break down altogether. "Simple" steer-by-wire systems, on the other hand, require comprehensive and multiple redundancies and back-up units far more complicated and expensive for the driver.

Mechanical steering is also necessary in order to give the driver the authentic feedback he wishes to feel at the steering wheel. Currently no "genuine" steer-by-wire system is in a position to simulate a realistic feeling of actual motoring conditions. A further point is that complete isolation of the driver through all-electronic steering would not fit in with BMW's motoring philosophy. Active Steering serves consciously to reduce the steering activity required of the driver.

Steering Me Right?

Opting in favour of Active Steering, BMW is not giving up the development of "genuine" steer-by-wire solutions. Rather, BMW is the first car maker in the world to complete the development of Active Steering as a trendsetting innovation on the way to all-out steer-by-wire concepts, thus introducing this new technology in one of BMW's next model generations. The big advantage for the BMW customer is an even more dynamic driving experience with superior safety and motoring comfort, while at the same time retaining all the authentic steering and driving characteristics so typical of a BMW.


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02-25-2003, 06:57 PM

02-25-2003, 06:58 PM

02-25-2003, 07:04 PM

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02-25-2003, 07:07 PM

02-25-2003, 07:13 PM

02-25-2003, 07:15 PM

02-25-2003, 07:46 PM

02-25-2003, 07:47 PM

02-25-2003, 07:52 PM
or they are like 90 yrs old... that could be it too.


02-25-2003, 07:52 PM
"Aaron said the E-Class doesn't impress him", I'm sure they'll base their decision on that. I'll give you credit Aaron, ya got moxie kid! :-)

02-25-2003, 08:53 PM

02-25-2003, 09:05 PM

02-25-2003, 09:36 PM
car! My 03 M3 this is a fun car...of course my wife doesnt like the harsh ride...but its great to have both in the family..
San Diego
1130 miles....getting there

02-25-2003, 10:24 PM

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02-26-2003, 04:38 PM
comparing apples with oranges here...

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