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BMWMotorsport
07-17-2003, 05:24 PM
Does anybody know if there are plans to introduce a 660Ci later in the vehicles lifespan? That would certainly be quite a machine...

edu328
07-17-2003, 05:41 PM

GeorgeUK
07-17-2003, 08:09 PM
close in performance to an M6 to justify it from the factory. I certainly think its an excellent idea and would provide a top of the range six with a different objective to the M6, i.e. super cruiser as oppose to out and out sports coupe.
CL500 vs 660ci
CL55 vs M6
Would b quite a nice contest!

edu328
07-17-2003, 08:14 PM

GeorgeUK
07-17-2003, 08:42 PM

Colin in Belleville,IL
07-18-2003, 07:31 AM
.

mfling
07-18-2003, 02:01 PM
There's still a significant number of us awaiting our turn at a new 8 series to replace the E31. Given what we've seen from Mr. Bangle, I doubt any of us would jump. Maybe BMW could lure Fisker back from Aston Martin.

<center><img src="http://www.fibersonde.com/e31/images/misc/850CSi.jpg"></center>

In the two years this puppy was available, it sold out it's entire allotment in a matter of weeks. Pretty impressive at $108K in 1994 dollars.

<br><img src="http://www.fibersonde.com/e31/images/e31sig.jpg" alt="1992 E31M70B50 Auto Mauritius Blau/SilberGrau">

dissappointment? (m) Rohith
07-18-2003, 03:04 PM
I obviously never got an opportunity to drive an 8, or the previous 6 for that matter, so I'm in the dark as to why every article I read about the 645ci has a sentence claiming that it's going to "wash away the bad taste the 8 series left" or something to that effect. I always thought they were good looking cars cars. Was it because they didn't handle as well as the old 6's?

GeorgeUK
07-18-2003, 03:20 PM
1) Was expensive relative to the 6
2) The economy wasn't in the greatest state when it was released
3) 850CSi apart, the handling wasn't as overtly sporty as the 6

I think the 8 was a lovely car, really nice looking, excellent cruiser. Shame it just didn't have the success it deserved. Lets hope the new 6 can make up 4 it.

mfling
07-18-2003, 03:43 PM
Most E24 owners where amped about the upcoming E31, only to find BMW moved upmarket and introduced a true pillar-less GT coupe. It's bigger, heavier, faster, but less "sporting" than the venerable 6 series. The V-12 was super smooth, and the ride was calibrated toward touring and less responsive in the twisties. The E31 was also BMW's technology flagship at the time, with the introduction of electronic throttles, ASC+T, i-Bus, multilink rear suspension, integrated seat restraint system, all-wheel steering, and a bazillion motors to control everything. BMW spend almost a billion DM in its development back in the late eighties. Unfortunately, the economy tanked in the early 90s, making the market for a $90K car somewhat limited.

BMW did attempt to up the performance with the introduction of the rare 850CSi in 1994 and 1995. Powered by an M-spec 376 HP SOHC 5.6 liter V-12 backed up by a six speed tranny and re-calibrated Motorsports suspension. Only 225 were imported into the states, and your chance of even seeing one of these, much less sitting in one, is astronomical.

E31 performance is all about one thing: speed. Think of a land Learjet and you get the picture. I've never driven anything than can turn cars in your rearview mirror into dots faster than a V-12 E31 - the midrange torque is phenominal, and top speed handling is probably the best of any BMW, including the M5. 155 in an E31 is simply a non-event. Here's a site with a bunch of top-end <a href="http://www.e31.de/videos_e.html">850CSi videos</a> showing how effortless these cars can get moving out on the open highway. Check out the sound that V-12 makes on acceleration. The thing simply wails unlike any other BMW engine. Even the starter motor sounds cool.

The E31 today is certainly loved by its enthusiasts, much like the 6-series owners are rabid about theirs. But they're two entirely different cars, and the new 6 series simply does not address the market the E31 filled, namely an extremely high speed, tastefully restrained, luxurious grand touring coupe for two.

Next time you see an E31 owner, introduce yourself. We don't bite.


<br><img src="http://www.fibersonde.com/e31/images/e31sig.jpg" alt="1992 E31M70B50 Auto Mauritius Blau/SilberGrau">

caylan
07-18-2003, 04:22 PM

bmwta
07-18-2003, 04:56 PM
Was it just the 850Csi with the "M" engine in the 8 series?<br><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/bmwta/sigm6.jpg">

mfling
07-18-2003, 05:09 PM
The 850CSi is labelled as such due to internal disputes within BMW Marketing and the Motorsports group. The CSi does have the requisite "WBS" VIN prefix, making it a product of Motorsports, and not "WBA" for BMWAG. The engine is labelled an S70, rather than an M70, again indicating a Motorsports product. Heck, even the steering box has a "red" label versus the normal "green", and the interior stitching is the tricolor M pattern, along with red instrument needles.

However, there was actually an <a href="http://www.e31.de/modelle_e.html#M8">M8</a> developed by Motorsports, with a DOHC 6 liter V-12. Alas, for whatever reason, BMW saw fit not to continue development of this monster, and relegated the prototype to a super-secret banishment in some garage in Munich.

So, yeah, the CSi is an M8 in theory simply because the intended M8 never made it into production.

<br><img src="http://www.fibersonde.com/e31/images/e31sig.jpg" alt="1992 E31M70B50 Auto Mauritius Blau/SilberGrau">

bmwta
07-18-2003, 08:22 PM
You gotta love them M cars, from BMW!

Carl H
07-18-2003, 08:56 PM

Spoonie
07-19-2003, 10:38 AM
This is the only place where people are comparing the CL with the E63. Everywhere else (auto mags/websites) the E63 is compared with the W209(CLK). The CL MB is a 2-door S-class. The E63 is not a 2-door 7-series. The E63 is built on the 5-series platform. So basically that makes the E63 a 2-door 5-series(E60). The CLK Mercedes is much closer to the weight, size, and price of the E63, more so than the CL. So why is everyone comparing the E63 to the CL? <br><img src="http://mysite.verizon.net/vze28g3k/330I/sig.jpg">

2001/330i/18" Breyton Magic Racings/NAV/ Yadda, Yadda
<a href="http://mysite.verizon.net/vze28g3k/">My Current Ride</a>

(nt) RohithT
07-19-2003, 04:03 PM

Edan-Z4
07-19-2003, 08:12 PM
Funny about the whole

"your chance of even seeing one of these, much less sitting in one, is astronomical."

I live in south Florida (Think fort lauderdale/miami) and I've driven 2 850s (yes, the 12 not the 8) and been in a few more. I never thought them all that rare...just late model hotties that were being pampered instead of used as day to day drivers.

Imagine the gas bill on that one ;) Makes me miss the 750iL protection...what a beast

dagootee
07-21-2003, 03:28 AM
I am an 850CI owner and a high performance car buff. I feel the 850 was too expensive for the performance. The 850 cost over $100k out the door. While the mid-range to high end speed was solid, the 0-60 time was over 6 seconds and handling in turns was average to good. I think most folks preferred the Ferraris or Porche twin turbos, etc. Although, many people I knew bought them more for thier looks, and the performace was acceptable.

I went for the best of both worlds. I read an article in Road & Track (around 1993), about a Twin Turbo modification by DINAN Engineering. This now allowed me to own a car with great looks and luxury, but also have the performance.

For what it is worth, the modifications consisted of:
Engine & transmission chips, large intake manifold, free flow exhaust system, high stall converter, shift kit, removal of speed limiter, changes to electronic "black box", twin turbo and related hardware, Dinan Stage III suspension, 18" wheels and big brakes and tires. It pumps out 528 HP and 601 lbs of torque. It pushes the 4200 lb car to 60 MPH in around 4.2 - 4.3 seconds and the qtr mile around 12.5 seconds. I will not admit in writing how fast I have had it, but it got there real fast and it was smooth.

Regards,

Don

Rhansen162
07-21-2003, 02:27 PM
Let's see....bad gas mileage on the V12's, crappy interior (not what you'd expect in a six figure car, there's almost no leather except for the seat fronts), headlight adjusters never worked and are just being replaced now (2003), DK motor problems, limited # of 6 spds, most were auto and disappointing to drive. Interior design was simple and nicely laid out, but materials were cheap. Have had several 928's (front engine, 4 seater GT car...direct competition for the 8 series) and the interior was all leather, everything including window trim, sun visors, entire dash, etc, etc If it wasn't the carpet on the floor or glass, it was covered in leather. That's what I expect from a high end car. The CSi has some more power, but the standard 850's were fast but not FAST, which I would expect too. Really looking forward to the 6...

-Rhansen162
'91 850i 6 spd
'00.5 aprilia RSV Mille R

johnfuston
07-24-2003, 02:00 PM
There were only 225 CSi\'s imported out of a total 6,000 or so 8-Series. Check the website that Mark cited (www.e31.de) for specific numbers.<br>- John

BMWCCA #288391
'92 850iA
'00 R1100RT


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