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Agent7
11-26-2003, 10:48 AM
The brake pedal feel of my 02 M3 was very mushy from day one. I complained to the dealer and asked them to bleed the brakes and they told me that's the way they all feel. I bought a can of Super Blue and had Tweak change the brake fluid. The pedal feel improved greatly but still is not what I would call anywhere near solid. My Roadtser has a nice hard feel to the brake pedal. The free play is taken up and the pedal stops and feels hard. You know what I mean, right??

I just dropped off my Roadster at the dealer and they gave me a new 2003 325 to drive. The 325 has a good hard brake pedal like my Roadster. This makes me think there is something wrong with my M3's braking system. <br>


Agent7
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2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

Useless Message Poster
11-26-2003, 10:50 AM
lines.

txse46m3
11-26-2003, 10:51 AM
<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

Agent7
11-26-2003, 10:51 AM
<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

Useless Message Poster
11-26-2003, 10:55 AM
fluid bleed. This usually makes the pedal firm. That bullshiit suction or pressure bleed they use at the dealership is BULLCRAP. Do it the old fashion way. If you watch a REAL touring car type racer with a million $$$ in tools, even with spare engines in the trailer, they all do the two man, pump bleed. What does that tell you? It works.

mjs1
11-26-2003, 11:01 AM
But I think mine is due to cooking the fluid at a couple of DE events. You can actually here the pedal swooooshing when you press it down. Very mushy.


Mike


<br><p><font face="Fixedsys">

Go Buckeyes!</font></p>
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Agent7
11-26-2003, 11:03 AM
<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

Useless Message Poster
11-26-2003, 11:04 AM
your girlfriend in the drivers seat, turn the ignition to the on position without starting the motor. Go to the caliper farthest away from the master cylinder. Have her pump the brake pedal and count 1,2,3,4,5 on the 5th pump, unscrew the bleeder and have her push the pedal to the floor WITHOUT LIFTING, when she gets to the floor have her yell "floor", screw in the bleed nipple and have her pump again. 5 sets of 5 pumps for each nipple. Go passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front. Make sure you keep the reservoir filled at all times and make sure she NEVER lifts on the pedal when the bleed screw is open. This will _SUCK AIR into the system.
Got it ? All the tools you need is a old plastic 2 liter pepsi bottle and some plastic hose (which fits snugly on the bleed nipple) you buy at Home Depot. Don't gorilla the bleed nipple closed, just snug it tight.

Agent7
11-26-2003, 11:06 AM
<br>


Agent7
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2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

darkjay
11-26-2003, 11:06 AM
If you can't find one, there should be one in the trunk toolbox. I ruined a whole day looking for it.<br>
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/darkjay/ripped_car_cover_border.jpeg"></IMG>

Useless Message Poster
11-26-2003, 11:08 AM

Agent7
11-26-2003, 11:11 AM
<br>


Agent7
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2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

Useless Message Poster
11-26-2003, 11:11 AM
every size ratchet, wrench and airtool known to man. I never like to be caught with my pants down. :-)

Useless Message Poster
11-26-2003, 11:13 AM
she did my race car...although I had 4 piston calipers on each rotor.
Two nipples per caliper, so it would be twice the work compared with your car.

Agent7
11-26-2003, 11:13 AM
Nothing worse than working on a project at 1AM in the morning and not having the right tool to finish the job.<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

Agent7
11-26-2003, 11:14 AM
<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

jrw
11-26-2003, 11:17 AM
From StopTech.
<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/howtobleedbrakesright.htm">Brake bleeding instructions.</a><br><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/jrw/Charlie's%20Angel.jpg">

cbailey781
11-26-2003, 11:20 AM
<br>


<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/cbailey781/reard4.jpg">

sgalaba
11-26-2003, 11:22 AM
It requires help from the dealer, you need to run the 'ABS System Bleed Program'. This programs cycles the ABS actuators separately for each brake at each wheel one at a time. Even after replacing the brake calipers and bleeding the system with a pressure bleeder, air was still in the ABS side of the house and we could not fix the soft brake pedal until we ran the program. One may even have to run it a second time just to make sure all the air gets out. Once we did this I was able to bleed the brakes after every track weekend and never had a soft pedal again.

Agent7
11-26-2003, 11:30 AM
<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

juno
11-26-2003, 11:32 AM
Bleed your brakes. Go out for a drive and brake HARD. Hard enough to activate ABS (wet parking lot is good for this). Then go home and bleed brakes again.

BobK02
11-26-2003, 11:39 AM
Something to do with the ABS system? The reason I ask is that I have seen bleed instructions both with and without this recommendation without an explanation either way.

Also, thanks for the advice on not muscling the bleed valves shut--I've always wondered how hard I should tighten those guys.

Useless Message Poster
11-26-2003, 11:46 AM
they were some fuucking FAST, professional monkeys, so I did the same.

sgalaba
11-26-2003, 11:52 AM
wheel(s) that are showing lockup. It may not clear enough fluid (air) from the system.

mike_m3
11-26-2003, 11:54 AM
at the site if that helps. I bled mine a couple times now and the pedal is excellent. I do have SS lines in which seems to have helped quite a bit.
The thing that Scott said about ABS pumps also seems to make sense though mine worked fine without it. I think Steve had problems with his last car until they did it with the car running. Seems like there is a little black magic to all of this.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://osbdesign.com/webpics/m3v3.jpg" border=0></a><br><br>

txse46m3
11-26-2003, 11:55 AM
<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

bmwm3coupe
11-26-2003, 11:58 AM
soft.

I got lucky and picked an used 14" StopTech BBK with Stainless Lines for about $1000 and after installing and flushing with ATE Super Blue my brake pedal feel is awesome.

I think that stainless lines, good fluid, and a good bleeding (like stated below) is enough to get our brakes to feel good. I did not needed the BBK, but at that price it was hard to say no :-)

<br>William
Richardson, Texas
2002 M3 Coupe - Alpine White/Black Leather/SMG/Custom Stereo

txse46m3
11-26-2003, 12:02 PM
<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

sgalaba
11-26-2003, 12:03 PM
Sold it yesterday. 2004 E46 M3 Silver Gray on it's way soon to the dealer, maybe by the end on the month I'll have it.

Agent7
11-26-2003, 12:13 PM
<br>


Agent7
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2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

CBsaksiri
11-26-2003, 12:19 PM
i don't really think that the stock pads could be squishing enough to make the pedal feel mushy... but given the large amount of brake boosting on this car, i think the friction qualities of the pad can determine how much boosting is done by the system and subsequently pedal feel (?)

so i would give pads a try... i definitely noticed a difference switching between stock and axxis ultimates (back and forth a few times)

the pedal effort just feels more consistent i guess. less of the feeling i got with the stock pads where the pedal feels like it sinks in after some amount of initial travel.<br>
<HR width=512><B>CBsaksiri</b> Sunnyvale, CA
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CARBONSCHWARZ416

CBsaksiri
11-26-2003, 12:19 PM
<br>
<HR width=512><B>CBsaksiri</b> Sunnyvale, CA
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CARBONSCHWARZ416

Alfanick
11-26-2003, 12:22 PM

Agent7
11-26-2003, 12:34 PM
It's not the pads or the lines causing this. It it were, the 325 would have the same problem.<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

KEF
11-26-2003, 12:36 PM
you need to flush that fluid and do a good manual bleed. You driving that thing in the winter?

I took a month of vacation mid-December to mid-Jan, so we could always get together and sort it out.

The same goes for jbM3.... mush....

Cheers,
Keith

<br><img src="http://members.roadfly.org/kef/Night4_Sig_R9.jpg">

Go Buckeyes!

Agent7
11-26-2003, 12:38 PM
<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

juno
11-26-2003, 12:41 PM
You need to make all four wheels lock up (which isn't too hard in the rain in a parking lot). Doing it via the dealer is better, but less convenient (appointments, etc.), and less fun. :-)

sgalaba
11-26-2003, 12:43 PM

mjs1
11-26-2003, 12:46 PM
Don't drive it much in the winter. I can't help myself sometimes though and on nicer days(dry roads/warmer) I break it out. I try to keep the salt off of it though....

I think I need new pads anyway, so come spring I'll take it to the dealer. If it's still mushy after, I'll tackle the manual bleed process.


Mike

<br><p><font face="Fixedsys">

Go Buckeyes!</font></p>
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/mjs1/sig3.jpg">

KEF
11-26-2003, 12:50 PM
Mine from the factory was mushy. The pads surely have some effect, but the majority is in the fluid and bleeding.

I bet a good flush and manual bleed would do wonders....

Cheers,
Keith

<br><img src="http://members.roadfly.org/kef/Night4_Sig_R9.jpg">

Go Buckeyes!

txse46m3
11-26-2003, 12:52 PM
Curious why?<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

mike_m3
11-26-2003, 12:56 PM
trying to build a machine for my house to play with video files - never been on the AMD side of the fense so I figured I'd ask the expert :-)

Thanks<br><br><br><br><a href="http://m3.madrussian.net"><img src="http://osbdesign.com/webpics/m3v3.jpg" border=0></a><br><br>

Agent7
11-26-2003, 12:58 PM
<br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

CBsaksiri
11-26-2003, 12:59 PM
<br>
<HR width=512><B>CBsaksiri</b> Sunnyvale, CA
<A HREF="http://members.roadfly.org/cbsaksiri"><img src="http://members.roadfly.org/cbsaksiri/sig_sm.JPG" border=0></a>

CARBONSCHWARZ416

darkjay
11-26-2003, 03:17 PM
<br>
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/darkjay/ripped_car_cover_border.jpeg"></IMG>

Stl_Don
11-26-2003, 03:19 PM
I can't get over how much firmer and responsive the the brakes are with these lines. I almost didn't install them because of the PITA factor. I finally had the dealer do it when the car was in for the 2 yr. brake flush. Now I regret not doing it 4 months ago when I bought the lines.

D<br><br><hr><br><A HREF = "http://stl_don.home.att.net"><img src = "http://members.roadfly.com/stl_don/kitten_sig.jpg"></A>
<br><small>pretty cool eyes</small>

Stl_Don
11-26-2003, 03:20 PM
<br><br><hr><br><A HREF = "http://stl_don.home.att.net"><img src = "http://members.roadfly.com/stl_don/kitten_sig.jpg"></A>
<br><small>pretty cool eyes</small>

vahan1
11-26-2003, 03:29 PM
i just loved playing with the brakes on my '00 328CI because they were so sensitive and responsive.

my 02 M3 Cab. is not nearly as sensitive or responsive, have no idea why.

but again, i loved playing with the brakes on the 328 so much that they only lasted about 16k miles.

Also the pads on the 328 were a lot noisier then the m3 ones. not sure why.

-v

bmwm3coupe
11-26-2003, 03:31 PM
I have done it for. Come to think about it, I have done this to ALL of my last cars (RX-7, Miata, 535i, and M3) and in all of them there was a significant improvement.

SS brake lines - a GREAT bang for the buck, specially when changing to a good brake fluid and doing a good flush.

<br>William
Richardson, Texas
2002 M3 Coupe - Alpine White/Black Leather/SMG/Custom Stereo

bmwm3coupe
11-26-2003, 03:31 PM
<br>William
Richardson, Texas
2002 M3 Coupe - Alpine White/Black Leather/SMG/Custom Stereo

StahlGrauM3
11-26-2003, 08:10 PM
how were your brakes bled? describe technique.

StahlGrauM3
11-26-2003, 08:11 PM

StahlGrauM3
11-26-2003, 08:14 PM
yeap and tap the caliper with a rubber mallet while she's pumping....helps break loose any air bubbles inside

Agent7
11-26-2003, 08:17 PM
And then went to each rotor and released fluid from the_nipple. It was a single man operation. He did this twice. <br>


Agent7
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/sig.gif"><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/agent7/sig/boobie.gif">

2002 M3 Coupe SMG
2001 M Roadster

sgalaba
11-26-2003, 09:08 PM
I think this somes it up....
http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif


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