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jtrichel
12-05-2003, 01:33 PM

txse46m3
12-05-2003, 01:36 PM
up? SMG.

Buying and planning to keep? Manual.

Just an opinion, sure to be contradicted.<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

StoneWalk
12-05-2003, 01:37 PM
I don't see SMG/stick as a track/street choice.

It depends on the personality of the driver and his/her needs.

Both are good gearboxes. SMG is more nifty high tech, and can be a bit easier in certain types of traffic. Stick is more visceral and in theory allows greater stop light heroics if you really want to punish your clutch.

Not a bad choice here. Depends on what the would-be owner likes.
<br>
StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

jtrichel
12-05-2003, 02:03 PM
to the SMG once out of warranty? Its the same Getrag transmission, right? SO the added cost would be the hydraulics, software, etc... am I correct? Are there any articles/reports out there on predicted reliability of the SMGII? Unfortunately, yes- I plan to probably keep for at least 5 yrs...perhaps a little longer.

jtrichel
12-05-2003, 02:05 PM
No interested in burning rubber or punishing clutch at a stop light. However, I am interested in knowing that I will have all of the engine at my disposal should I get an occasional itch to race a 911, corvette, or whatever else from a stoplight...not in the habit of that type of thing very often, but every once in awhile......

hdclown
12-05-2003, 02:09 PM
Hasn't the SMG II box been out for long enough to be beyond warranty in europe. Surely there are people with 60k miles or more on an SMG II box, are there not? The transmission is the same isn't it? So mostly uyour talking about the addition of hydraulic systems and software. The software isn't going to really break, and updates are usually $90/pop or so, so its just extra hydraulics and what not?

If you treat the transmission right, it should last just as long I'd think.

IMO, ANYONE who bases their choice on SMG or the traditional 6sp based on if they plan to keep it our of warranty or not is NOT making the choice the right way. They should decide on which transmission they want and base it only on that, which one they want, otherwise you may end up spending 55k or more on a car that wasn't REALLY what yuou wanted.

hdclown
12-05-2003, 02:13 PM
if you look through the past pages of posts, you'll see the SMG ends up only being about 2 to 3 tenths slwoer than the regular 6sp in terms of 1/4mi and 0-60. This is excluding the more recent 12.7x times put out by someone with a 6sp as I understand his high times to be based on a near 4500rpm clutch drop, something you simply CAN'T do in the SMG because the software doesn't allow. If the SMG software let you, the fastest SMG 1/4" my would probably be within 2 or 3 tenths.

On the drag strip, 2 or 3 tenths is A LOT. For the occasional stop light racers, that isn't going to be a factor.

I'm choosing SMG because it's so high tech and it's different. I also like he fact that it has automatic shifting, which is great for traffic. I was on the fence, then I started reading Leo's website and the BMWUSA.COM info on SMG and I was hooked on it. It just sounds to cool not to have.

StoneWalk
12-05-2003, 02:14 PM
SMG in no way prevents you from accessing full engine power (the DSC button does sometimes, but that's another matter :)

This car can light up the tires from a relatively low rpm clutch drop - the SMG will let you smoke the rears if you like. What SMG won't do is get you the last 0.1 second which a serious drag pro would gain by launching at very high rpm and riding the clutch to slip for just the right amount of traction through all of 1st gear and part of 2nd.

SMG is likely to be more consistent at the stop light grand prix, stick in the hands of the expert would probably eventually post best time of day by a tenth or two. Some folks feel passionate about chasing those last 0.2 seconds without understanding the wear and tear that getting them will put on the car.

I specicially recall one of the early test magazines getting a series of 0-60 runs in one of the stick M3's, eventually posting one of the often-quoted 4.8 second runs, and then completely destroying the gearbox on the next run trying to get a 4.7 - thus the official time was put up as 4.8...
<br>
StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

jtrichel
12-05-2003, 02:15 PM

txse46m3
12-05-2003, 02:17 PM
My opinion is based solely on what I've seen reported here, and that's certainly not the best source in the world, but is the best available to me.

We've seen countless numbers of posts here about SMG's that would not start, would not go into gear, etc. Often, it's related to hood sensors, booster pumps, relays...all things unique to SMG. I've seen a few reports of synchro failures in manual cars, but nothing which indicates potential reliability problems on par with SMG. Frankly, BMW's service is a) too expensive and b) too poor for me to be willing to risk owning an SMG out of warranty.

Simply stated, the more parts you have, the more likely you are to have a failure. With SMG, the failure is likely to require dealer service (god help you if you take an SMG to AAMCO!).

<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

The Bishop
12-05-2003, 02:18 PM

darkjay
12-05-2003, 02:22 PM
cost here. It's SMG. It's not like you can take it to any mechanic or work on it yourself. It's probably safe to say that if there's a problem with it, a BMW dealer is the only one you can trust to fix it. It doesn't mean they'll do a good job but they're the only ones who have any experience with it.

With that said, I bought a stickshift because I really enjoy shifting and all that comes with it. Buy what makes you feel comfortable.<br>
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/darkjay/ripped_car_cover_border.jpeg"></IMG>

txse46m3
12-05-2003, 02:24 PM
<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

darkjay
12-05-2003, 02:27 PM
read your post and saved me the trouble of typing all that up. I could've just said "ditto" under your post.<br>
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/darkjay/ripped_car_cover_border.jpeg"></IMG>

txse46m3
12-05-2003, 02:33 PM
<br><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/haha.gif height=98 width=152><img src=http://members.roadfly.org/txse46m3/87309.gif height=56 width=75>

darkjay
12-05-2003, 02:48 PM
posts instead of on the main thread because it gives me another chance to stare at those double Ds :)<br>
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/darkjay/ripped_car_cover_border.jpeg"></IMG>

gpj
12-05-2003, 02:49 PM

StoneWalk
12-05-2003, 02:56 PM
Throwing money into the engine to try and drop 0-60 times is a lousy way to go. 0-60 is mostly about the launch. The M3 can already spin its wheel most of the way through first gear. Adding HP won't help there. If you gotta have those extra tenths, you'd be into drag radials, tire pressures, carefully selected gear ratios, extra stiff rear springs, etc before you needed more hp.

The Hartge M3 with the 400 hp M5 motor in it did not post improved 0-60 times and word had it that driving it was "scary" from a standing start.

If I was going to modify the engine, I'd want real-world hp which could be used on the street where smoky burnouts are just not part of the equation. Trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile is what to look at for engine thrust you can use everyday.

<br>
StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

2002M3Drew
12-05-2003, 04:10 PM
Seriously, they both obviously work well. This is completely subjective. It's high tech vs. classic controls...no bad choices here.<br><img src="http://members.roadfly.com/darkjay/drew_miata.jpg" height=320 width=410>

2002M3Drew
12-05-2003, 05:01 PM
That old axiom that "power windows are just one more thing to break" applies here, but obviously to a much greater extent. The SMG II system relies on the perfect workings and calibration of many sensors to work properly. At best if something is off, you will get rough shifts...at worst, the car won't start (like when the sensor reads the hood is open, for example). Even older automatics need more work than standard shift cars, and most of those (non-BMW of course) work on simple torque converter principles, no computers or sensors involved.

This isn't a knock on SMG, though, as it's true about all technology. Anyone remember the high-tech air suspensions on the Mercedes Benz 6.9 Sedans? They were a wonder back in the day (the whole car was), but as the cars hit the used market and the suspensions needed to be repaired, many chose conventional hardware as replacement over the very very expensive air system replacements. As long as your life with the car doesn't exceed the warranty, then nothing is to worry...choose a 5 year lease on a three year warranty, well, you could end up fixing that roof on that summer house you rented.


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