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JIO
05-24-2004, 01:04 PM
I wonder what will become of the 500 hp Mercedes and BMWs? If gas gets much higher, the resale value of a high powered car with terrible gas mileage will drop drastically. I'm betting SUVs will be taking a big hit by September.

quickburn7
05-24-2004, 01:10 PM
gas prices. I think last month they were down 17%. However people buying the 500hp MB and bmws dont care if gas is high so those sales should still be normal.

Stolen on 12/30/03 recovered on 01/12/04
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/quickburn7/sig2.jpg" height=207 width=294>


2003 Six Speed Coupe
titanium silver/black napa leather
UUC ssk
PSS9s coilovers

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 01:10 PM
The high end exotic cars will be the last to get hit by high fuel costs. Folks that buy a $100k 500hp luxo rocket are _not_ worried about their fuel bill going from $1000 to $2000 per year.

What _should_ get whacked are the affordable full-size gas guzzling SUVs, where people barely put together the monthly $300 on their 6 year loan for their Ford Extinction that gets 12 mpg - they are the ones who will go screaming to something more affordable since the fuel bill has doubled their monthly car expenses.


StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

JIO
05-24-2004, 01:12 PM

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 01:14 PM
Can you imagine the appearance of used car lots if gasoline goes into the $3 to $4 region for a while?

Acres and acres of 8000 pound former grocery gathering monsters :)

StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

2002M3Drew
05-24-2004, 01:17 PM
As bad as $34 is to fill up my tank and get 25 mpg or so, I thought of all of the SUV people out there crying over spending probably north of $50 a tank...and looking forward to going back to the pump every couple of days! he he he I really don't care how the dinosaur becomes extinct, so long as it happens! Sick, huh?

jason2
05-24-2004, 01:20 PM
racing gas in at $5/gal to feel those extra ponies :)

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 01:20 PM
The millions upon millions of huge SUV driving single-occupant morons in the US were like a huge train headed towards a series of sharp curves in the track. The thing was _going_ to come off the rails eventually when gas prices went up. The only question was exactly when. That appears to be now, thus I sit in morbid fascination as I watch the locomotive begin to roll onto it's side :)

StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

Ryan_D
05-24-2004, 01:21 PM
<table width='600' style="font-size:9pt;font-family: Comic Sans MS"><tr><td style="font-size:11pt" width="294"><b> - Ryan D.</b></td></tr><tr><td><table style="font-size:8pt;font-family: Comic Sans MS"><tr><td width="6"></td><td colspan='2' width="284"><b>'04 ///M3 Cab</b></td></tr><tr><td width="6"> </td><td width="9"> </td><td width="271" >Silver Gray / Cinnamon</td></tr><tr><td width="6"> </td><td width="9"> </td><td width="271" >SMG,NAV,HK,Lumbar,etc</td></tr></table></td><td><table style="font-size:8pt;font-family: Comic Sans MS"><tr><td width="6"></td><td colspan='2' width="284"><b>'01 ///M Coupe</b></td></tr><tr><td width="6"> </td><td width="9" > </td><td width="271" >Titanium Silver / Imola Red</td></tr></table></tr></td></table>

StMedina
05-24-2004, 01:26 PM
<font color=#660000><font size=1><font>

JIO
05-24-2004, 01:27 PM
it was only driven by a little old lady to the gas station and back".

SchnitzerM5
05-24-2004, 01:28 PM
hehehe!
I'm rubbing my hands with glee! and am hoping you lot have to pay around $5 - 5.5 per gallon like we do !!!!

I know i've posted on this subject before - and we know it'll probably never be that you lot pay the same as us...

but it's nice to hope.. !!!!!!!!

some of you lot might wanna part exchange yer M3's.. for a 318i !!!

hahaha!!!

Dennis!! West London (expensive)UK!!

JIO
05-24-2004, 01:29 PM

evan...
05-24-2004, 01:29 PM
High Gas prices, War in the Middle East. Interest rates all wacky. Watch out or Ralph Nader might become a politican... Whats next big hair, funky colors and small fuel efficent vehicles from Japan???

txse46m3
05-24-2004, 01:32 PM
drive high end sports cars that get 16mpg in the city sling the term 'moron' around when it comes to gas mileage. Unless you're driving a 4 banger w/ barely enough space to fit your groceries, you're just as stupid as the soccer mom (who has to be able to seat her 3 kids, the groceries, and the neighbor kid she's carpooling around town).

I have 3 cars, none of which get better that 16MPG, and will be the last person throwing stones from my glass house.<p align="center"><a href="http://www.doubledracing.net">
<img border="0" src="http://members.roadfly.com/txse46m3/dd-sig.jpg"></a></p>

<a href="http://www.doubledracing.net">DoubleD Racing</a>
Mod List: Buncha stuff that makes is sound like a barrel of washers rolling down the street.

AndyO
05-24-2004, 01:44 PM
Same observation of single operator of a SUV, makes no sense, those folks must be P/O'd at their fill-up.

Sad thing is their "upside down" on their payments (which were 60 months) by about $5-$6 on their trade-in (which means they own more than their value)so the option of trading to a smaller car is expensive, and dealers aren't giving much on trade-in's for them either.

Tsk,Tsk

AndyO
05-24-2004, 01:46 PM

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 01:46 PM
Um...

My M3 gets nearly _double_ the fuel economy of a Ford Excursion (and it's tons easier to park).

I have _no_ feeling of panic as gas rises to $3.00 (or $4.00 for that matter).

I did not mark "gets lousy fuel economy" on my JD power survey of "initial quality problems" with my car - I knew exactly how efficient my car was going to be.

I have a daily driver which I can drive instead of the M3 when appropriate.

And most importantly, I am _not_ the one whining and moaning at the gas pump right now. I'm _fine_ when tanking up my M3.

That's why I get to make fun of the SUV crowd.

StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

AndyO
05-24-2004, 01:48 PM
Anxious to see what the April-June sales will be for Chevy Ford Dodge on SUV's
Sedan's are terrible for the big 3 and all that kept them going was SUV's with big INCENTIVES!!!

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 01:49 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/dls/chair%20grind.gif">

AndyO
05-24-2004, 01:51 PM
Besides, owners of Exotics and 400HP cars don't drive everyday.
SUV owners are the one's wondering......
"why did I buy that F#%^&N thing for, plus, I have 48 more months of payments!" and it's $4,500 less than what I owe!!!

l.charlton
05-24-2004, 01:52 PM
add, that are not whining at the pump either. I can afford the vehicle, I can afford the fuel. No problem here either. Thank God we live in America where we can choose a vehicle or vehicles that best fit our lifestyle needs.<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/l.charlton/sig3.jpg" height=342 width=250>

StMedina
05-24-2004, 01:52 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/STMEDINA/acmeguard2.jpg">
<font color=#660000><font size=1><font>

jason2
05-24-2004, 01:53 PM

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 01:54 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/dls/chair%20grind.gif">

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 01:54 PM
If you've got an SUV and aren't complaining, I'm fine with ya. It's just the rafts of single-occupant "I need a big car to help me see and feel safe" folks who are also now moaning and whining that the government needs to "do something" about gas prices - those are the folks I'm laughing at.

Someone with 5 passengers and towing a boat behind their big american iron? Play on. No worries.

StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

95DayVI
05-24-2004, 01:56 PM
_______
GC RSM
GC T/S Coilover
Koni DA f/SA R
450#f/550#r
Mintex C-Tech 1144 blend
Euro fLoAtErS,
accessory UDPs,
M roadster lever

StMedina
05-24-2004, 01:57 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/STMEDINA/acmeguard3.jpg">
<font color=#660000><font size=1><font>

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 01:59 PM
In a recent JD Power survey of initial quality, the Hummer H2 was rated near the bottom. Wanna know the #1 complaint from new owners? Had nothing to do with build quality, body integrity, or NVH. Nope, it was about the lousy fuel economy.

How stupid are people? They willingly pay $50,000++ for a rebodied 5,000+ pound Tahoe, on whose windo sticker, in very large type, are the woeful fuel economy numbers, and then they are surprised that this wallowing road whale gets mileage as bad as advertised?

I guess money does not equal smarts.

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 02:00 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/dls/chair%20grind.gif">

AndyO
05-24-2004, 02:00 PM
And I wonder how many times they were rushing for one reason or another, and almost tipped the SUV over.
Tow yard near my office, when I drive by, 1 new SUV tip-over in the lot totalled every week.
"But honey, I thought it was safe, the SALESPERSON said it was REALLY safe" LOL!!!

StMedina
05-24-2004, 02:01 PM
<font color=#660000><font size=1><font>

StMedina
05-24-2004, 02:01 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/STMEDINA/acmeguard2.jpg">
<font color=#660000><font size=1><font>

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 02:01 PM
The EPA sticker was on the window folks! It gets lousy gas mileage by _design_. There is no "quality" problem here. It's just a big honking SUV. It's like dinging the M3 for having "too much acceleration" as a quality problem :)

StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 02:02 PM
StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

JIO
05-24-2004, 02:04 PM

JIO
05-24-2004, 02:06 PM

Green///Machine
05-24-2004, 02:07 PM
Gas prices weren't just high, there was a shortage and in some areas you couldn't buy it at all... And when you could buy it there was an hour long wait in line at the gas pump.

Interest rates were in the high teens, like 18% for a 30 year mortgage.

So, count your blessings it's not like the late 70's... I'll take my $2.10/gal and my 6% mortgage any day of the week... It could be a whole lot worse.

StMedina
05-24-2004, 02:09 PM
little ragged...but the album is clean.
<font color=#660000><font size=1><font>

Bill-SD
05-24-2004, 02:10 PM
and I am grateful for that and the fact that I have a very nice car to drive. I'm certainly not a big SUV fan either. However..I do complain about the prices! I think it's crazy that the prices jump 10-20 cents every week.

Just my 2 cents.

Green///Machine
05-24-2004, 02:10 PM
Gas prices are going up in the US because the source is demanding more $$$$... Unless you live in an Oil rich country, you get your oil from the same places we get ours... If it goes up here... it will eventually go up there...

So if we are paying $5/gal... You will be paying $10!

StMedina
05-24-2004, 02:11 PM
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AndyO
05-24-2004, 02:11 PM
H2 owners are the "Gotta have the newest thing crowd" and one-upping their freinds for SUV bragging rights, and then to fill out the JD Power info with that claim is actually pretty sad, about the intelligence of people.

Hummer, to add to their product line to combat the poor fuel efficiency issue is developing the H3 based on the Chevy Tahoe platform another dumb GM marketing strategey that ranks up there with:

1. SAAB's rebadged as 9-2's that are actually Subaru's
2. GTO's from Holden Australia not selling.
3. Suburbans re-badged as Cadillac ESCALADES
4. NE want to add to the list....of Dumb GM marketing strategies?

Dave04M3
05-24-2004, 02:12 PM
4wd and avg. according to a test I read 44+mpg in the city!! It drove very well and will only be about $3500 more than the standard 4wd Escape.
<a href="http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/index.asp?bhcp=1">Ford Escape Hybrid</a>

Hope the link worked. Dave

2004 M3 Coupe
IR/Blk leather
Nav
19"OEM w 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 Nitto 555 Extreme
HK
Xenons
Moonroof
Alum Trim
Mods: SuperSprint Headers, Race cats and Borla muffler
<img src="http://cmw.ne.client2.attbi.com/Cobra_Page/public/officebush.gif"

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 02:15 PM
Not sure where you're seeing 44 mpg. Estimates I've found are in the upper 20's. Official numbers are still "pending" which I think means they're desperately trying to score better. It'll be a small ute with the efficiency of a sedan, which is a good thing, but not revolutionary.

StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

StoneWalk
05-24-2004, 02:17 PM
And I believe that's going to be on the high side.

StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

AndyO
05-24-2004, 02:18 PM
Your Right, I forgot about that!!! right there on the window next to the MSRP.
I guess ARN HOLD will be keeping a low profile.

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 02:18 PM
Rap stars, big jocks, and other taste-challenged dipschits with more money than brains have gobbled them up en masse...and apparently continue to do so. Aleggedly, it is GM's single most profitable vehicle of all time.

JIO
05-24-2004, 02:20 PM

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 02:20 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/dls/chair%20grind.gif">

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 02:21 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/dls/chair%20grind.gif">

2002M3Drew
05-24-2004, 02:27 PM
Car people spend $35 for a tin of wax...real people opt for Hot Wax every other car wash!

My point is that people that drive enthusiatst cars cannot be mixed up with regular folks. SUVs would be fine if they were driven by enthusiasts...once upon a time that's the way it was! Now, they are a same-cost-or-lower alternative to a boring sedan or hatchback, cheaper to lease than a Taurus. And a truck offers more "fun" and personality, not to mention space, than a usual $299/month auto. And this is the problem! There are too many of these friggin things on the road, and wayyyy too many people have developed this unholy fearlessness of the laws of physics when driving them! Not to mention, they kick up every rock and stone, and I can't see through or around them from any of my cars. I want my road back!

Thus, I relish the high cost of gas and hope against hope that the masses will gravitate back to the Renault Alliances, Chevrolet Caprice Estate Wagons and Reliant K's of the past! (Okay, maybe the K Cars and the Appliance are a stretch...)

Seriously, though, the people that truly use SUVs for the purpose they were intended (beach, off-road, towing, etc.) will not be detered by prices of gas, just as those of us with 333 hp monsters won't be affected.

txse46m3
05-24-2004, 02:27 PM
"The millions upon millions of huge SUV driving single-occupant morons", I didn't realize you were only talking about those who are complaining.

Yeah.<p align="center"><a href="http://www.doubledracing.net">
<img border="0" src="http://members.roadfly.com/txse46m3/dd-sig.jpg"></a></p>

<a href="http://www.doubledracing.net">DoubleD Racing</a>
Mod List: Buncha stuff that makes is sound like a barrel of washers rolling down the street.

shep01
05-24-2004, 02:28 PM

Dave04M3
05-24-2004, 02:30 PM
it was MSNBC one of the Java script ads with a review of the Ford Escape Hybrid. Actually they rate the FWD at 38+ and the 4rd at 36+. They were impressed as they only expected high 30s and got 44mpg. Either way to get 36-38mpg in the city with a manageable sized SUV is impressive. Could be my wifes next vehicle...anyone want to buy a very low mileage 03 325i with sport package???? Dave

2004 M3 Coupe
IR/Blk leather
Nav
19"OEM w 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 Nitto 555 Extreme
HK
Xenons
Moonroof
Alum Trim
Mods: SuperSprint Headers, Race cats and Borla muffler
<img src="http://cmw.ne.client2.attbi.com/Cobra_Page/public/officebush.gif"

AndyO
05-24-2004, 02:31 PM
May 2004 issue page 142, 1 year results showed 41.6 MPG versus Toyota claim of 60 city/ 51 highway.
Plus look at how much more you have to pay above a Corolla, something like $7K!!!!

Dave04M3
05-24-2004, 02:32 PM
2004 M3 Coupe
IR/Blk leather
Nav
19"OEM w 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 Nitto 555 Extreme
HK
Xenons
Moonroof
Alum Trim
Mods: SuperSprint Headers, Race cats and Borla muffler
<img src="http://cmw.ne.client2.attbi.com/Cobra_Page/public/officebush.gif"

Dave04M3
05-24-2004, 02:36 PM
this time and it was a 5 mile flat test loop, no wonder they got 44mpg. Dave.

2004 M3 Coupe
IR/Blk leather
Nav
19"OEM w 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 Nitto 555 Extreme
HK
Xenons
Moonroof
Alum Trim
Mods: SuperSprint Headers, Race cats and Borla muffler
<img src="http://cmw.ne.client2.attbi.com/Cobra_Page/public/officebush.gif"

Dave04M3
05-24-2004, 02:38 PM
a little car, its actually a SUV with V6 like performance. Dave.

2004 M3 Coupe
IR/Blk leather
Nav
19"OEM w 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 Nitto 555 Extreme
HK
Xenons
Moonroof
Alum Trim
Mods: SuperSprint Headers, Race cats and Borla muffler
<img src="http://cmw.ne.client2.attbi.com/Cobra_Page/public/officebush.gif"

2002M3Drew
05-24-2004, 02:39 PM
The thing couldn't get out of its own way, but it did get 50 MPG pretty consistantly. Hard to see what all the fuss is about when these new hybrids can't beat a twenty-two year old VW!

At the same time, we had a 1979 Mercedes 300SD Turbodiesel, and that got easily in the 30's as well! All 2 tons of it!<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/darkjay/drew_miata.jpg" height=320 width=410>

AndyO
05-24-2004, 02:41 PM
Did U ever notice on the back of the ESCALADE (Suburban) the Cadillac Crest is HUGE.
It looks like a WWF (World Wide Federation) Boxing Belt!!!!

AndyO
05-24-2004, 02:46 PM
with toyota technology.
NE ways glad to see ford offering something and developing new technolgy.

dbauer78544
05-24-2004, 02:55 PM

Pimpalicious Tantric D
05-24-2004, 03:44 PM
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/dls/chair%20grind.gif">

juno
05-24-2004, 03:44 PM
for a track car and trailer. :-)

biodan
05-24-2004, 05:09 PM

Denis54
05-24-2004, 07:13 PM

spook
05-24-2004, 08:35 PM
...shared with the TrailBlazer/Envoy/Bravada (RIP)/Rainier/new SAAB. The HUMMER pickup concept that was circulating at this years' auto shows is supposedly based on the new mid-sized pick-up (Colorado?).

The H2 is already based on the full-sized Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade/Suburban platform.

I don't think the 9-2 (nee SAAB) is as bad an idea as the aforementioned upcoming 'new' SAAB SUV based on the dated and weak to start with mid-sized GM SUV platform. In fact, the SAAB version of the WRX looks much nicer than the Subaru inside and out. With all of the WRX mods available, it can be made into a damn nice, fast, affordable, practical car. A bit funky, perhaps, but that's what SAABs have always been about.

I like the GTO; I think it's a shame nobody's buying them.

The Escalade, as mentioned below, was a great marketing strategy and has reinvented the Cadillac brand. Not only is it hugely profitable, but it must still be bringing huge smiles to Cadillac's marketing people that, up until now, have wondered how to sell cars to a market that is literally dying off.

spook
05-24-2004, 08:42 PM
...I believe the H2 has a high enough GVWR that the EPA doesn't provide fuel consumption estimates, so there is no sticker on the window.

Not that buyers complaining about poor gas mileage are any less stupid...

supertrl
05-24-2004, 08:44 PM
On exhaust and on chip.

I had a SS on my 2002 M3, but it was not deep enough. What are you using?

evan...
05-24-2004, 11:53 PM

urban_alchemist
05-25-2004, 03:58 AM
Count yourselves lucky!

RonCT
05-25-2004, 06:53 AM
You spend $50,000 or $250,000 on a sports/GT car and say you drive it 12,000 miles a year. That's only 800 gallons of gas at 15 MPG. So, gas goes from $2 a gallon to $3 - a piddly $800 more to drive the car in a year.

Perhaps SUV drivers will feel the psychological pinch as a fill-up goes from $50 to $75.

Futuro
05-25-2004, 01:46 PM
that we pay a grand in gas guzzler tax, while 8mpg Hummers are exempt. Ridiculous.

M3Fan
05-25-2004, 01:53 PM

RickKap
05-25-2004, 05:17 PM
just how terrible was the new Chrysler 300 in terms of sales?


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