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  • 01-20-2007, 05:35 PM
    Kaptain

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    What about Panoz?

    They've already got 25 orders for the DP01. They've set up a European base for the sale, service, and repair of Esperante GTLMs for the GT2 class. They've sold a coupe Esperante GTLMs to other teams.

    http://www.teamlnt.com/2006/News/201206-Chad.htm

    http://champcarworldseries.com/News/...e.asp?ID=11186
  • 01-12-2007, 02:52 PM
    PTG Sport

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    This is in line with what i was trying to say. Factory funding for the supercars usually doesn't make sense.

    The 997 is still basically the same 996 chassis with every upgrade that have been developed over the years incorporated if it makes sense. Switching between 3.6 and 3.8 was already being done and the race and turbo motors have nothing to do with the naturally aspirated 996 and 997 motors...much closer to the 993 type water cooled turbo motor than anything else.

    The point is that Porsche has managed to build, if not a profit center that handles racing then at least a neutral cash flow entity that handles racing. The sale of 996 and 997 cup cars and the associated parts is very profitable, the development costs and lower numbers involved in the R,RS,RSR GT versions keeps profit down but on the whole, probably doesn't lose money world-wide.

    As far as I'm aware, Porsche is the only manufacturer to manage to go racing at a zero or positive net cost and this is only possible because of the extremely unique make-up of the company and its products.
  • 01-12-2007, 02:45 AM
    Kaptain

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    The Saleen S7 Twin Turbo has a tube frame chassis. The MC12 has a monocoque manufactured entirely from carbon fibre and nomex (the Enzo using a carbon tub supplemented with aluminium honeycomb).

    Aston Martin is still for sale.

    The Prodrive DBR9 effort wasn't funded by Aston Martin or the Ford Motor Company.

    Racing the 911 has helped Porsche, but the new 997 GT3 RSR isn't as production-based as the standard 996 GT3 RSR (3.6 vs 3.8 liter motor, 12 inch tires vs. 14 inch tires).
  • 01-09-2007, 12:45 AM
    ptgsport

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    I agree that the expense of GT1 is prohibitive but there is also little reason to race most qualifying supercars in this class because of the expense. GT1 is a true race car class, advanced beyond the unibody based GT2. The expense means that in order to justify racing with a factory effort, you need either to have the potential to sell a lot of cars, profitably, or build your brand image in a huge way.

    Ferrari sells cars through Michelotto, which helps keep Michelotto in business but the real brand marketing (or is that National Marketing for Italy) is of course F1.

    Corvette is a small part of GM's racing budget and can lean on Corvette sales due in part I hope to a rejuventated image directly tied to their 10 year program of road racing.

    Beyond that it's hard to think of many models available in the world that can be competitive, have the potential sales at a significant profit to benefit the model and have the wherewithall to accomplish success.

    For LeMans there have historically been enough wealthy gentleman driver/owners to fund expensive GT cars, sometimes with help from the MFG. Corvette's kind of hurt that by doing a fine job and having the staying power that only deep pockets can generate. (See Audi and P1)

    So. basically we're looking for a car company that can afford to spend $20-50 million, have a platform that can be competitive and have either a brand (Audi, Corvette/Chevy) that they believe can be increased in value by racing; or a model...(????) that can realize significant profit by racing exposure and be sold in sufficient quantities to make sense. (Bye.Bye Ford's Aston, VW/Audi's Lamborghini, Chrysler Viper and hello, well, I haven't figured that one out yet). Ouch, I depress myself sometimes.

    Schnitzer spent about $8m in 2001, PTG Under $4m, I'd guess GM spends between $10-15m but doesn't have to account for the research (engine development, wind tunnel, cfd, etc) costs.

    Bring back the days when Bscher would foot the bill for running a F1GTR or LMP like we would buy a cup of coffee, instead of trying to sell the impossible Bugatti!

  • 01-03-2007, 07:01 PM
    Kaptain

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    The GT1 cars use a lot more carbon fiber and expensive parts and materials than GT2 cars.
  • 01-03-2007, 03:40 PM
    Hallen

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    Historically, different series always keep escalating the capabilities of a race car to the point where it is just too expensive to be competitive. I wouldn't doubt that it costs as much to run a GT1 car as it is to run a P1 car.

    Manufacturer "Works" cars seem to push this even faster. I think the rules need to be modified to bring these cars back into the realm of reality. If that means slowing them down some, then so be it. If that means they have to slow down GT2 as well, then OK.

    If you get rid of GT1, then GT2, or just the GT class at that point, will eventually (and it won't take that long) be right where we are now with GT1. Too expensive and too few cars. The reason that GT2 has bigger fields is that it is less expensive and it stays less expensive because GT1 is there.

    So, my opinion is you have to keep GT1. You just have to find ways to make it less expensive so more teams can participate.
  • 01-02-2007, 07:50 PM
    Kaptain

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    LMGT1 needs to be cut or let just mid-engined supercars race (Saleen S7R, Maserati MC12, Lamborghini Murciélago R-GT, Pagani Zonda, etc).


    FIA GT frontrunners given Le Mans 24 Hour invitations

    http://www.qv500.com/paganizondap4.php
  • 12-27-2006, 06:02 PM
    ptgsport

    Re: M6 GTR 'chop

    I would have to say that the 5 and 6 series are much to heavy and oversized to ever be a street-car based race car. Possible for GT1 style but at the moment that category is going slowly but surely away both in the states and in Europe. Nice looking concept but the sheer size would strain brakes, tires and track safety if built to GT2 type rules.
  • 12-26-2006, 08:22 PM
    Kaptain

    M6 GTR 'chop

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