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  • 12-14-2010, 11:14 AM
    Bmw540san

    Re: No muss, no Fuss DIY Thermostat Housing DIY

    Euro, I'm reading your write up while my car is sitting on lift, portable heater is blasting hot air and I'm considering removing more clothes as I'm stating to sweat...just kidding.

    You did a good job. I didn't use any sealant and I had no leaks. The only I'd do and if you haven't done it yet is to replace both radiator hoses, especialy if they're original.

    Have a happy holidays!



    1998 BMW 540i 6 speed
    Arctic silver, M sport suspension (euro delivery), prod. date 05/98, non VANOS
    Staggered 18" style 32 OEM wheels
    3.15 open differential
    Remus exhaust
    AFE CAI with improved heat shield
    Z3 shifter
    VDO oil pressure and temperature gauges in place of headlight/fog switches
    Powder coated valve covers-satin black
    CDV delete
    Debadged
    AEA DRL module (aftermarket daytime running lights)

    1997 BMW 528iA
    Alpine white, premium package, prod. date 04/97, single VANOS
    Staggered 17" style 32 OEM wheels
    Debadged
    AEA DRL module
    Custom made sun blinds for rear seating area

    2000 Nissan Frontier Desert Runner, AKA "The Work Horse"

    Garage aids:
    Direct Lift Pro Park 8
    Campbell Hausfeld 28 gallon oil lubricated air compressor
    Newair ACP-1400H portable air conditioner and heater
    Auto Enginuity scan tool with BMW enhanced option
    Actron 9135 scan tool-for quick readouts


  • 12-14-2010, 12:11 AM
    jimlev

    Ha, that 32 coupe was more than my 540 when new!






    "Drive It Like You Stole It, A Sickness for Quickness"
    The Bottle Rocket "King of Spray" 2 Stage Nitrous Oxide
    Dare to be different and stand out among the crowd of me-to-cars!
    No guts, no glory! Tire smoke, not traction control!
    Zionsville all aluminum radiator to replace the 3 leak prone Nissens Radiators!

    NOS Progressive 2 Stage Controller with port injection
    Snow's Performance Methanol/Water Injection
    Dinan downloads, VAC Under Drive Pulleys
    Dinan Carbon Fiber CAI
    Dinan Front Strut Bar
    Electric Cooling Fan w/PWM controller
    NGK Iridium Plugs
    DDE Enhanced Angel Eyes, Smoked Lenses
    Koni FSD's/H&R Springs, BAV Brass Caliper Bushings
    Eisenmann Race Exhaust (from H8-Rain's car)
    ///M5 3.15 LSD
    ///M5 Sway Bars, Front & Rear
    Energy Suspension Polyurethane Sway Bar Bushings
    ///M5 Gauge Cluster Rings ///M5 Lip Spoiler
    ///M5 Mirrors and Switches
    Leather Z weighted shift knob (thanks H8-Rain)
    Rogue “Octane” Short Shift kit w/WSR
    Rogue Tranny Mounts
    StopTech Brake Lines Front & Rear
    Axxis Deluxe Plus pads Front & Rear
    Staggered M Parallel 66, Xenons
    Modified CDV, UGDO
    Euro Storage Tray (thanks Zombywolf)
    Redline in Diff and Tranny
    Passport 8500 X50, Escort ZR3 Laser Jammer
    G-Tech/Competition Pro Data Logger
    Auto Enginuity OBD-II Scan Tool
    25% Tint, X-Pel, LoJack
    PIAA Driving Lights
    BMW CCA Member Boston Chapter
  • 12-13-2010, 10:30 PM
    Ed CT

    I've had some Fords with that check valve too...

    Seems to allow all the air bubbles to pass thru.

    Good to see you too, Jim. And I gotta say, the new fuel system in your 540 is very impressive.
    Yes, some really nice cars there at F40. But my wife won't let me buy that 427AC, even though there's enough equity in the house and 401ks. Maybe you'll have better luck with that '32 Ford coupe.
  • 12-13-2010, 09:07 PM
    jimlev

    The V8 t-stat comes with a hole in it plus a (m)

    small ball (BB) that acts like a one way check valve.
    Nice seeing you again Ed. To bad Wayne C stood us up, still haven't heard from him. He did have some nice cars to drool over.
  • 12-13-2010, 07:55 PM
    lezonebay

    why the hole ? my problem is the always cold car

    it warms up so slow... stuck open thermostat so I ordered a new one but haven't had a chance to install. too cold. 21-26F and even in a garage it was 35F today so I wait till tomorrow when it will be 41 outside :-)

    this write up couldn't have come in a better time !!! Thanks David !!!



    1997 BMW 840CiA
    1990 BMW Z1
    1999 BMW 528iT (Hauler mobile)
    2002 Astro Van AWD
    2003 Nissan 350Z Enthusiast Package
    1987 BMW 535i with 5spd manual (for sale)
    1992 BMW 735iL (needs head and interior)
    1977 BMW 320i (project racecar)
    2007 Mazda CX9 AWD (Wife mobile)
    1998 Yamaha Blaster+Breeze

    1995 850CSI CD00177 (SOLD)
  • 12-13-2010, 07:18 PM
    Zardoz2025

    Re: Euro-Why is your t-stat in backwards???

    Craig,
    I re-used the same t-stat. It was new at the last coolant change.

    I too heard that the vent hole helped in the bleed procedure, but the main reason I drilled it was to create a constant coolant flow just in case the t-stat failed in a closed position - I'm very cautious to NOT overheat and warp the head.
    Ed CT
    1998 528i (aka, best car I ever owned!)
    5-Speed
    Aspen Silver
    Aubergine Leather
    Zeckhausen CDV
    Nokia CK-7
    D-Con Cache on Fuel Pump Cover
  • 12-13-2010, 07:05 PM
    Craig in Canada

    Re: Euro-Why is your t-stat in backwards???

    I drilled my t-stat too because I saw it as a tip online, but I didn't find it made anything any easier at all. I probably won't bother next time. I know that the M62 does not have the t-stat vent which I've found to be the secret to a good fill (not the one at the e-tank). I can't remember if the M52TU is also lacking the t-stat vent.

    Once in a while when it's cold (like winter cold) I think the engine might be taking a little longer to heat up than it used to but not in any serious way. Are you sure that there just isn't a problem with your new t-stat not closing fully?

  • 12-13-2010, 06:48 PM
    Zardoz2025

    Euro-Why is your t-stat in backwards???

    Just kiddin' ya.

    Just for the board's info pool, did you have the ignition on, heat on full hot, fan low when you refilled? I'm guessing you did, since you didn't have to add any more coolant.

    Also, when I changed my t-stat housing 2 weeks ago, I too drilled a small hole at 12:00. This made the bleed go much easier (I did it with the car on the level!)

    But the biggest change that I noticed is that the car takes twice as long to warm up in the morning. Hard to believe that an .093" dia. has such an effect. Did you notice this, too?


    Ed CT
    1998 528i (aka, best car I ever owned!)
    5-Speed
    Aspen Silver
    Aubergine Leather
    Zeckhausen CDV
    Nokia CK-7
    D-Con Cache on Fuel Pump Cover
  • 12-13-2010, 04:50 PM
    jimlev

    Don't lose any sleep over it.






    "Drive It Like You Stole It, A Sickness for Quickness"
    The Bottle Rocket "King of Spray" 2 Stage Nitrous Oxide
    Dare to be different and stand out among the crowd of me-to-cars!
    No guts, no glory! Tire smoke, not traction control!
    Zionsville all aluminum radiator to replace the 3 leak prone Nissens Radiators!

    NOS Progressive 2 Stage Controller with port injection
    Snow's Performance Methanol/Water Injection
    Dinan downloads, VAC Under Drive Pulleys
    Dinan Carbon Fiber CAI
    Dinan Front Strut Bar
    Electric Cooling Fan w/PWM controller
    NGK Iridium Plugs
    DDE Enhanced Angel Eyes, Smoked Lenses
    Koni FSD's/H&R Springs, BAV Brass Caliper Bushings
    Eisenmann Race Exhaust (from H8-Rain's car)
    ///M5 3.15 LSD
    ///M5 Sway Bars, Front & Rear
    Energy Suspension Polyurethane Sway Bar Bushings
    ///M5 Gauge Cluster Rings ///M5 Lip Spoiler
    ///M5 Mirrors and Switches
    Leather Z weighted shift knob (thanks H8-Rain)
    Rogue “Octane” Short Shift kit w/WSR
    Rogue Tranny Mounts
    StopTech Brake Lines Front & Rear
    Axxis Deluxe Plus pads Front & Rear
    Staggered M Parallel 66, Xenons
    Modified CDV, UGDO
    Euro Storage Tray (thanks Zombywolf)
    Redline in Diff and Tranny
    Passport 8500 X50, Escort ZR3 Laser Jammer
    G-Tech/Competition Pro Data Logger
    Auto Enginuity OBD-II Scan Tool
    25% Tint, X-Pel, LoJack
    PIAA Driving Lights
    BMW CCA Member Boston Chapter
  • 12-13-2010, 04:49 PM
    jimlev

    Might be good for SQW






    "Drive It Like You Stole It, A Sickness for Quickness"
    The Bottle Rocket "King of Spray" 2 Stage Nitrous Oxide
    Dare to be different and stand out among the crowd of me-to-cars!
    No guts, no glory! Tire smoke, not traction control!
    Zionsville all aluminum radiator to replace the 3 leak prone Nissens Radiators!

    NOS Progressive 2 Stage Controller with port injection
    Snow's Performance Methanol/Water Injection
    Dinan downloads, VAC Under Drive Pulleys
    Dinan Carbon Fiber CAI
    Dinan Front Strut Bar
    Electric Cooling Fan w/PWM controller
    NGK Iridium Plugs
    DDE Enhanced Angel Eyes, Smoked Lenses
    Koni FSD's/H&R Springs, BAV Brass Caliper Bushings
    Eisenmann Race Exhaust (from H8-Rain's car)
    ///M5 3.15 LSD
    ///M5 Sway Bars, Front & Rear
    Energy Suspension Polyurethane Sway Bar Bushings
    ///M5 Gauge Cluster Rings ///M5 Lip Spoiler
    ///M5 Mirrors and Switches
    Leather Z weighted shift knob (thanks H8-Rain)
    Rogue “Octane” Short Shift kit w/WSR
    Rogue Tranny Mounts
    StopTech Brake Lines Front & Rear
    Axxis Deluxe Plus pads Front & Rear
    Staggered M Parallel 66, Xenons
    Modified CDV, UGDO
    Euro Storage Tray (thanks Zombywolf)
    Redline in Diff and Tranny
    Passport 8500 X50, Escort ZR3 Laser Jammer
    G-Tech/Competition Pro Data Logger
    Auto Enginuity OBD-II Scan Tool
    25% Tint, X-Pel, LoJack
    PIAA Driving Lights
    BMW CCA Member Boston Chapter
  • 12-13-2010, 04:48 PM
    Gans

    why the hole in the thermostat



    Jay Gans 2000 528 MT Non-sport.Titanium Silver, Grey Leather. Premium Package, Cold Weather, Fold down seats. Oct 99 production.ash try mod so not bone stock. CD changer. Garmin C510 Nav..Honda CH150D scooter






  • 12-13-2010, 03:57 PM
    bilbmw

    I'm glad everything...

    ...worked out, especially with the noise issue. I never left. I just prefer to keep quiet if I don't know the answer to someone's query rather than offer up a simple-minded response :O . If I don't have a clue to the subject at hand, I'll my keep my mouth shut (or fingers away from the keyboard). You and your family have a safe holiday as well.



    '00 M5
    -Carbon Black
    -Blk/Blu interior
    -Rogue short shift kit
    -Dice iPod integration kit

    '97 528i
    -'99 Double VANOS motor
    -Jet Black
    -Sand Beige interior
    -Black Dashboard (upper/lower) and Center Console
    -Black all leather shift handle
    -Debadged
    -Mr. MPL lower mesh grille
    -Shadowline (diy) ext. trim
    -Frenched high beams
    -Clear front turn signals
    -Red/clear taillights
    -Clear side markers
    -Amber fr. fog lamps
    -Rear fog lamps
    -In-dash CD player (CD53 Business)
    -Dice iPod integration kit
    -CMT5000VR cell phone (old tech.)
    -Bav. Autosport mats w/ B/A icon (blue)
    -Burlwood e-brake handle
    -///M dead pedal
    -Rear view mirror w/ compass
    -Chrome instr. rings
    -...and a rebuilt GM 4L30E transmission!!

    '86 528e

    '87 Chrysler Conquest TSi w/5spd.

    '89 Merc. Grand Marquis

    BMWCCA member since 1998
  • 12-13-2010, 03:40 PM
    Eurodavid

    Re: Nice pics and write up (m)

    Darnit, Jim! Are you trying to give me the worries?! I knew I should have put the thermo housing on there without any sealant, I didn't know how much was too much and just tried to get a thin bead on. Now I find out my thin bead is really a whale load of snot! Now it's going to leak for sure and I am going to be back out there cussing up a storm, probably in colder weather, because I didn't ask here ahead of time what was and was not too much gasket sealant.

    No sleep for me tonight.

    Euro "Gasket-Maker-NOT!" David
  • 12-13-2010, 03:23 PM
    jimlev

    Nice pics and write up (m)

    That's a lot of sealant. I just put a skim coating on the o-rings.
    I think I'll get one of those pumps on my next visit to HF, looks like it will come in handy for more than just coolant jobs.
  • 12-13-2010, 02:35 PM
    Eurodavid

    Re: Hi Euro. I think the...

    Hi Bilbmw!

    Yes, it was definitely a few sec rattling (a slight spinning marble sound) coming from the transmission itself. I had a stethoscope, and once I put the stethoscope on the tranny pan, it nearly blew my ears out. I am fairly sure it is because the car sat for a number of days, the tranny fluid was dead cold, plus I immediately pulled the car up on Gorilla ramps after starting it. The tranny fluid thus had no time to warm and expand just a little, so it caused the tranny system to act like it was momentarily under a "low fluid level". It disappeared in 25-30secs as the fluid warmed; was just lucky I had my stethoscope when it happened (was originally going to listen to all the pulleys while I had access).

    As soon as the car was restarted later today, after I finished the thermostat housing work and it was back on level ground, the noise wouldn't occur and was completely gone. Also, the tranny has never made the noise before, and I doubt it will ever again (wait, I have to go run and knock on some wood!!).


    Glad to see you on RF, it has been a while. Hope things are going well your way, and the you & yours have a fantastic holidays and an even better New Year!

    Eurodavid
  • 12-13-2010, 02:26 PM
    Eurodavid

    No muss, no Fuss DIY Thermostat Housing DIY

    Hi Gang!

    Did the Thermostat housing this afternoon, and with the sub freezing weather, my mind was working on improvisation.

    Now, instead of going the hell-bent-for-leather approach of having to get under the car, remove the bra, then prepare to drain the radiator at its bottom drain plug (and dealing with the subsequent mess it can bring), and then maybe go around and drain at the block (using a clear hose to pinch over the drain plug--still is a mess, plus ytou have to remove the O2 sensor and cover it), I thought "why not just remove rad fluid through the rad neck". Voila, problems solved!

    Here, you will see the pics of what I am talking about:





    This is a simple handpump ($4.99 at HFT, I have about 4 of them, they are awesome for everything, tranny, engine oil, and radiator). Anyhow, I simply took off the rad cap, put one of the pump in the radiator, then one in the bucket, and pumped. I ended up taking out approx 2 litres, which was enough (as evidenced by the bleed screw on the thermo housing closest to the thermostat) to clear the upper rad hoses.

    I then simply popped off the two hoses attached to the thermostat housing, removed the 4 bolts of the housing (1 bolt is part of the engine lift bracket on my 1996 I6 M52; the other 3 are 10mm bolt screws that require 15Nm of torque when put back on, as does the 1 bolt of the engine lift bracket---the upper bolt of this engine lift bracket, which in now way affects the thermostat housing, requires something like 80Nm). Here are some pics:





    My Thermostat and water pump are virtually new, so there was no need to mess with them. Also, notice the little hole at 12 o'clock (that I drilled) in my new thermostat before installing it. I am sure some of you know why I drilled that little hole ;-)


    This next pic is of the new thermostat housing, where I put a thin layer of grey silicone gasket sealer on it. I am unsure if this is/was necessary, as sometimes more is actually less and I was worried the gasket sealer would interfere with the smooth sealing of the plastic housing & its gasket. Only time will tell as I drive the next few weeks.



    Now I am assuming in this little DIY here you know how to get the fan shroud off (two simple pop rivets), the clutch fan nut (remember, reverse thread, 32mm, get a bicycle tool 32mm and also a long handle open-end 32mm wrench) and also reinstall them both. The major advantage of doing this thermostat housing work my way with the hand-pump for the rad fluid is that it actually took me less than 20mins to remove the required fluid, then remove the old thermostat housing, then reinstall the new one & also get the fan clutch and fan shroud back in. Plus, it covered refilling the cooling system. Think about it, less than 20 mins for all of this (and I timed myself when I started). This was crucial as I was working in 29 degree weather, not in a garage, but out in an open driveway.

    I also heartily recommend following JimLev's little tip of pouring fluid into the bleed screw on the thermostat housing itself. I have a wide range of funnels, and thus I had one perfect size where, when I removed the bleed screw completely, the funnel fit in snugly and I didn't have to hold it. I then simply poured fluid in there and kept pouring until the rad was at the correct level (again, a little more than 2 litres went in, the exact same amount that came out). For my integrated rad/expansion tank, this all is and was so easy.

    I also, after doing the pouring in the bleed screw on the housing, provided a little pucker power on my expansion tank while throttling that thermostat housing bleed screw until fluid ran out clearly, with no bubbles. Human lung power is easily able to pressurize the BMW system, as human lungs can approach 23-25psi. I then puckered up again, and throttled the bleed screw on the radiator neck until fluid ran clearly out of it, making sure all air was gone from the system. This method requires me to not even do any other bleed method, but I still do Jim Cash's excellent run through a couple of times, just to be sure. But after doing the above, I have never had to add any additional fluid to the rad system ever, as I have done the complete cooling system a few times now (please note: the car was up on Gorilla ramps the whole time).


    Hope these little DIY tips help. It sure saved me a whale load of time draining the rad and engine block, and refilling & going through the full fill and bleeding process. Those hand pumps have saved my bacon many time, from working on this thermostat housing, to working on the transmission filling, to also working on any fluid in the e39. I have dedicated pumps now that are only for, i.e., the rad system, one for the tranny, etc. They are, like I said, only $4.99 each.

    Eurodavid





  • 12-13-2010, 01:09 PM
    bilbmw

    Hi Euro. I think the...

    ..."clanging" that you hear are the cats or heat shields getting warmed up as someone else just mentioned and the engine settling down to it's correct idle speed (when started cold). My 528 has always done that, with the original and the replacement trans. It's only for a few seconds when started cold and goes away. Not to say that it could not be something else (hopefully not), but that's my experience with that same noise. My M5 seems to has a similar cold start characteristic as well although not neccesarily a "clang" but more of a um... Oh hell I can't describe it!






    '00 M5
    -Carbon Black
    -Blk/Blu interior
    -Rogue short shift kit
    -Dice iPod integration kit

    '97 528i
    -'99 Double VANOS motor
    -Jet Black
    -Sand Beige interior
    -Black Dashboard (upper/lower) and Center Console
    -Black all leather shift handle
    -Debadged
    -Mr. MPL lower mesh grille
    -Shadowline (diy) ext. trim
    -Frenched high beams
    -Clear front turn signals
    -Red/clear taillights
    -Clear side markers
    -Amber fr. fog lamps
    -Rear fog lamps
    -In-dash CD player (CD53 Business)
    -Dice iPod integration kit
    -CMT5000VR cell phone (old tech.)
    -Bav. Autosport mats w/ B/A icon (blue)
    -Burlwood e-brake handle
    -///M dead pedal
    -Rear view mirror w/ compass
    -Chrome instr. rings
    -...and a rebuilt GM 4L30E transmission!!

    '86 528e

    '87 Chrysler Conquest TSi w/5spd.

    '89 Merc. Grand Marquis

    BMWCCA member since 1998
  • 12-13-2010, 12:21 PM
    jimlev

    I always use sealant, it keeps gaskets in place (m

    and will fill in any minor surface pitting/voids or irregular surfaces.
    Euro, your blowjob method on the cooling system will help, but getting most of the air out before starting the engine is the key to reducing bleeding problems. I don't even raise the front end when I do I6's.
  • 12-13-2010, 11:03 AM
    Craig in Canada

    Re: hi Jim and Craig!

    I used just a little grey sealant too, and also wondered whether I was either doing something unnecessary or which would make things worse down the road.

    Did you notice any erosion of the block around the t-stat housing ports? I noticed a little bit. It made me check for electrolysis (measuring voltage in the coolant) but I didn't find anything. I've also never let my coolant get "old" so I don't know what's up with that.

  • 12-13-2010, 10:07 AM
    Eurodavid

    hi Jim and Craig!

    Hi,

    Jim, yes, it's coming from my tranny, I left it idle, popped out, and got under the car with the stethoscope, like you taught me some years ago when I am not sure where the sound is coming from. It was a very slight clanging or marble in a tin can sound (no, it's not the vanos ;-) ), but as the car idled 20 secs more, it was almost gone. Maybe I'll throw some more fluid in there, but I am wary because I think I am overfilling it, as when I did the tranny fluid last year, the stuff was gushing out the fill hole as I tried to get her shut, lol. also, will do on the bleed screw. Wonder if I am doing the same thing my pucker method??

    I figured out a new mini procedure on how to do the thermostat housing without draining the fluid, took me less than 15-20 mins. I also put a bead of grey gasket sealant this time, but I am not so sure that was a good idea as the new housing fit flat and snug. Hope I didn't make a good situation bad by trying to over do it. Ok, gotta run, I took pics of what I did and will post it a bit later. Have to run to the base right now
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