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Hmm, after qualifying maybe 15sec wasn't enough

Re: Any predictions for the Spanish GP?

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Re: Thanks for the explanation, but does that mean the

well, remember that F1 specifies a minimum weight, so in that sense all the teams, top or not, have the same weight. The trick is WHERE the weight goes. The basic approach is to design as light as possible. This will put you under the weight limit. However, you now have freedom to add ballast, and to put it wherever it is most advantagous for the particular track/driver.

Regardless of whether the chassis is twin or single keel, one always runs the risk of being too eager to minimize weight (and maximize ballast) and thereby compromising the chassis structurally. Jag did that big time with the R3 in 2002, and that was a single-keel design.

The twin keel posses an extra dilemna because it tends to be heavier in the first place, PLUS extra material is required to offset the structural deficiencies inherent in the design. This creates a huge incentive for the designer to compromise in an effort to regain all that ballast he's loosing versus a single keel.

My thought with the McLaren is that Newey cars always have been very well balanced, and they were worried about being able to obtain that balance after losing ballast due to the twin keel. The result is that they pushed the numbers just a little too far and ended up with too much flex.

speculation on my part, but in line with what Machett is talking about.

Thanks for the explanation, but does that mean the

other top teams have a more rigid chassis and yet have the same weight as the McLaren? Then is the twin keel design the sole reason for the extra body flex over the other cars?

91 325i "Cashmere"
69 tattered and hailstorm dented 1600/2002 "Reno"
Racing is life. Everything before or after is just waiting."

I don\'t know enough about chassis development to

venture an opinion. I thought Machett's theory is interesting, although I have no opinion whether he's right or wrong. I assume, however, Machett has knowledge of McLaren's previous designs and didn't form his opinion on thin air. 91 325i "Cashmere"
69 tattered and hailstorm dented 1600/2002 "Reno"
Racing is life. Everything before or after is just waiting."

Newey\'s first attemt at a \"twin keel\"

I think there might be something in what Machett says. Whether the Mercedes engine is at fault in and of itself is uncertain; it is conceivable that there is too much flex in the tub itself, forcing the engine to absorb more torsional stress than it was intended to absorb.

The McLaren is Newey's first twin-keel design and this design has some fairly obvious structural issues not seen with a single keel. the tradeoff is supposed to be better aerodynamics because the twin-keel allows more efficient use of the diffuser. It certainly is possible that in their attempt to compete with Ferrari, McLaren became too weight-conscious and made the chassis too light and flexible.

the twin keel also involves different front suspension geometry, with shorter control arms. maybe that is screwed up too, as Kimi and David sure don't look happy fighting that car around the course.

not really

. . . because the suspension does not remove all the force transmitted by the forces acting on the tires.

Further, the suspension arms themselves act as levers, and have a torque-multiplying effect.

Try this simple experiment: take a pen and place it between your thumb and forefinger. The pen is a control arm; your fingers are suspension mounting points. Now thwack the pen a few time at one end. Is there a force transmitted to your fingers? Of course there is. Not exactly the same force as what is directly thwacking the end of the pen, but a force nonetheless. And your fingers tend to want to twist in the direction the pen/lever/control arm is moving toward, right?

Engine flex is a problem with F1 motors because they are fully stressed chassis member and they are designed to be as light as possible, with minimal safety margins. Flex was so bad with the original Renault 111 degree V10 that they had problems with the cylinders seizing the walls due to deformation in the block (yikes!).

Re: You really think Button will make it two consecuti

All factors indicating BAR is the #1 number 2 team right now..

a. Aero- Strong aero developments from Geoff Willis, the adaptation of Ferrari wings and innovation on the rear torso integrated wing, are putting Williams at least a few steps back. We have to wait and see if FW26’s aero upgrade slated for Spanish GP will include those 2 important pieces. BAR 1 up.
b. Engine- At this point I believe the 2 engines are a draw. P86 might have more revs, but the Honda engine is just as powerful. Both are upgrading, too close to call. Even.
c. Tires- Let’s skip tires, since its from same source. And unlike Ferraristone, Michelin isn’t favoring a particular team. Even.
d. Drivers- ahhhh ….the fun factor, given all 4 drivers from the 2 teams had extensive tests at Circuit de Catalunya. Should give them a clear advantage over MS. Between JB and JPM, I pick JB at this point.


Renault might be in the mix, but AF is saying R24 lacks qualifying pace. We just might see a surprise top 6 from Kimi, he’s way overdue.

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isn\'t that a totally wrong analysis?

if you went along with that wouldn't you have to believe that the Mercedes Engine block twists easier than the rear suspension attached to it?<p align=center>
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According to Steve Machett, the current car has

too much body flex. see link.

<a href="http://www.formulaoneupdate.com/index.php?article=201">http://www.formulaoneupdate.com/index.php?article=201</a>91 325i "Cashmere"
69 tattered and hailstorm dented 1600/2002 "Reno"
Racing is life. Everything before or after is just waiting."

Is the MP-4/19 Newey\'s first \"dog\"?

This being a Bimmer board we can gloat over how poor the "Mercedes" (really Ilmor) engine is doing, but the McLaren seems to have problems everywhere. You'd think a car with about 30 fewer hp would be easier to control, but Kimi and DC are fighting to keep it on the track.

It does feel strange not mentioning McLaren in the

top six, but Kimi has to get off the schneid sooner or later.

91 325i "Cashmere"
69 tattered and hailstorm dented 1600/2002 "Reno"
Racing is life. Everything before or after is just waiting."

You really think Button will make it two consecuti

ve poles? I have a feeling the Williams/BMW is better suited for Barcelona than Imola.91 325i "Cashmere"
69 tattered and hailstorm dented 1600/2002 "Reno"
Racing is life. Everything before or after is just waiting."

Qualifying is more interesting..

My guess on qualifying:

JB
JPM
MS
RS
RB
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MS by 15 seconds and after that it's a tossup

between Ruebens, Button, JPM, Ralph, and Alonso.

Feels strange not to even mention a McLaren!

Any predictions for the Spanish GP?

91 325i "Cashmere"
69 tattered and hailstorm dented 1600/2002 "Reno"
Racing is life. Everything before or after is just waiting."