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Thread: M5 has been a mistake for Me
11-04-2005 07:19 PM #81
I for one admire your statements about the M5...
It takes a lot of courage to admit a mistake on your part plus have to listen to all the flames directed toward you after posting your results.
The M5 with SMG is really not a car for everyone. As I've stated before, I've owned 3 M3's with SMG and I love the transmission...why?...because I track the car lots. My car is barely 1 year old now and it's been tracked 12 times in only 6000 miles (2 sets of tires and 4 sets of brake pads in 6K miles). I love SMG on the track. I don't drive the car much around town, and I'm sure if I didn't track the car, I would probably opt for the 6 speed manual as it really is much easier to drive in traffic.
I'm sure there are lots of people laughing now because they think they love SMG, but after a year or so of driving the car around town with the typical SMG quirks, they may tire of it quickly.
A typical SMG quirk...the transmission will not shift into 1st gear unless the car is absolutely stopped...so you have 2 options, shift it manually into first or wait for the car to come to a dead stop. After driving SMG for a while, it's easier to forget about the manual downshifts and let the car do it for you. What typically will happen is just as the traffic starts up, the car is in the process of shifting into first just as you give it gas. The car will not move while it's shifting down and then when it does, you've already fed it lots of gas and the car just takes off quickly that everyone in the car asks what happened; what did you do? It makes you feel very foolish.
There's the starting quirk...you leave the car in gear when it's turned off. To start...foot on brake; move the shifter into neutral (nothing happens for about 3 seconds) while the car is building up hydraulic power to move the shifter into neutral. Not it will start, but not go into gear if your hood is ajar or the door is open. It can be very frustrating.
I'm basically saying that you have to love SMG to put up with it. Hopefully some of the electronic components don't break because the car is dead...you can't move it. It needs to be dragged onto a flatbed truck because you can't get the car in gear.
I'm hoping the SMG III is more reliable than SMG II, because lots of people have had trouble with the transmission. I've been lucky with my 3 as to never had any problems with SMG. Of course I've only driven the 3 M3's a total of 14,000 miles.
If I buy an M5 (I'm reconsidering) and had the option of 6 speed manual or 7 speed SMG...I'll go with SMG...I don't mind the frustrations since I'm retired and have lots of time to deal with the problems.
JAL doesn't need all the flames...please cut him some slack. It may turn out that in 6 months people will be telling you: "I told you so about SMG...You never should have bought it."
11-04-2005 10:01 PM #82
11-04-2005 10:56 PM #83
11-05-2005 02:39 AM #84
Re: I for one admire your statements about the M5...
While I continue feel like a fool, I appreciate your insights about the SMG. I wasn't aware of the Neutral lag was caused by the need for the car to build up hydraulic power, etc. For such a fast car, it certainly requires a bit of patience. I too have noticed a few times when riders asked "what did you do" because the revs were up priot to the transmission's finally engaging - this is especially true when turning to go up a hill - sometimes, the car even bucks like a stick when the clutch has been let out too fast.
I noticed that someone mentioned taking an M3 for a spin "in the boondocks." I want everyone to know that the car drives fine in the boondocks - where the driver is free to drive as they please. Believe me, if you are simply talking about driving in an wide open space, it's fine, but who has that luxury - I wish we all had the time/money to cruise out to Palm Springs and enjoy driving through the mountains, etc.
For all you driving instructors out there, listen up, my complaints are limited to daily bump and grind traffic, where it there is constant starts and stops. I liken it more to the kind of traffic where, in a stick, one might simply need to let out the clutch only to re-engage it immedialey, or partially engage it, etc. The SMG is simply not well exectuted for this type of situation.
While I agree thre are work arounds: starting in 2nd, keeping the revs up a little more, etc. but I believe that these detract from the simple enjoyment of the car.
I think your statement "you have to love the smg to put up with it" speaks volumes about what I've been writing about. Since I have no plans to take this car to the track - I won't even have the opportunity to get to know the smg as you do. I can only imagine that it is special in this situation.
Hey, enough said, I don't mean to beat a horse to death...I'm just advising my fellow BMW fans, that if you are serious about buying one of these, dive it in rush hour traffic, with small turns (no sweepers please), where you have to parellel park (with a lot of heavy traffic), etc. and go from R to D or 1 quickly...until you have gone through this drill for a couple of hours straight, I don't think you will completely have a feel for what I'm talking about.
I'm only writing this so that guys reading these notes will keep their eyes wide open if they get serious about buying one of these.
JAL, aka the dumbass/fool/non-researcher/rich guy/person who shouldn't own an M5, etc. etc.
11-05-2005 12:41 PM #85
- irvine, california, United StatesMember No: 11051
- Join Date
- Jun 2001
- Rep Power
BMW CCA Article not much off!!
First of all, after reading through this thread, I am going to say that I truly appreciate JAL for sharing his personal thoughts about the car. He might have just saved me from buying a new M5 without a test drive first. I am now waiting until I can actually drive one before I make my final decision. To those that have flamed him, SHAME ON YOU for not seeing the value of his post!!!
With that, I went back to my Sept. issue of Roundel, and re-read the M5 Road Trip article. With the knowledge of this thread, I am now able to read between the lines and WOW. My opinon is that, JAL is DEAD on with the author's findings!!! We can debate over my opinion for weeks over this to no end, so let's not bother OK.
Parts of the article(I am quoting here):
(For those that don't have Roundel, the Nav. didn't work right, and sent them through the Alps for a 200 Km detour by mistate..)
"Our detour, in fact, was a revelation, a dramatic turnaround in my opinion of the car."
"The verdict could so easily have gone the other way, had the sat-nav not had the forethought to sent us via the most challenging route it could find. But maybe is knew what we really wanted all along; it is quite clever, and all."
I got thinking, how stupid man. The Nav. system SUCKED, and put them in a long 200Km detour route. Yes, they had load of fun driving that route. But...had this not happened, what then? Based on these two quotes, I think they would have been disappointed too just like JAL.
Ok...if have Roundel, go read the article. I now feel there was another story behind the printed words that BMW CCA just can't print...if you know what I mean.
11-05-2005 03:10 PM #86
My M5 Mistake
I believe Peter may have something. While we can't be sure about the editing of the article he mentioned, the fact is that most people who publish articles about cars have a vested interested in helping sell them. I think it was last year that GM announced plans to pull their advertising from the Los Angeles Times following a negative article about a new Pontiac. While they backed down, the message was clear...auto execs do not enjoy bad reviews!
After one of my critics wrote that I should have done better research (about gas tank capacity, etc.) I was wondering if I had overlooked warnings about the this iteration of the SMG. While I must admit, I already fell like a putz for buying this before driving it, I decided to go back and try and see if I had fair warning and simply decided to ignore it because of the lust factor in waiting so long for the new M5 to hit the streets. Note: Everyone of us has a story about overlooking some fundamentals when going after a beautiful woman - only to discover later (after you know what) that she was/is bad news - it's just one of those lust things, right?
With this in mind, I had to ask myself, if indeed, the putz in me had overlooked the SMG warnings:
The following was part of a Dec 2004 piece in Road and Track. It's the paragraph which I remembered clearly put to rest my earlier SMG concerns:
"Some die-hard manual fans may take issue with the M5's SMG-only status, but after some time behind the wheel, only the most stubborn will miss the clutch pedal. The performance of this latest iteration has been improved significantly, delivering 20 percent faster upshifts during hard acceleration, while also smoothing out shifts at lower speeds or in stop-and-go traffic. Gone is the occasionally unpredictable behavior in automatic mode, replaced by noticeably smoother clutch engagement regardless of engine revs. And for Formula 1 wannabes, all downshifts are accompanied by perfectly synchronized throttle blips in both manual and automatic modes."
The above comment about smoothing out the shifts at lower speeds and the one which states "Gone is the occasionally unpredictable behavior in automatic mode" is simply BS. As stated by another poster, people actually say "what was that," or "can't you control that." Also, while the "perfectly synchronized throttle blips in both manual and automatic modes" sounds great in print, the realitiy is this mother is constantly shifting up, down, blipping, etc. it would almost be comical if I hadn't blown all that dough!
While quoting the above to help justifiy why I let myself buy a car which I hadn't driven, the fact remains auto mags need to keep their advertisers happy. It's little wonder why we never read an article about the smoking/cancer link until the cigarette companies were banned from advertising!
Of course, I can walk each of you through the decision making process, but I will spare you this as it doesn't quite help ameliorate the fact that I'm t he dumb schmuck whio bought this car wihtout driving it first!
Needless to say, I realize that I'm taking up everyone's time tyring to work out this frustration by writing about it. I also appreciate that there are a lot of bright people here who are trying to help a soul in need of something - a refund would be great!
Meanwhile, I only have two audiences to work this out, you guys and my wife, since she also has to drive this thing, she already knows the whole story. So that leaves you guys!
11-05-2005 08:48 PM #87
11-05-2005 09:53 PM #88
- irvine, california, United StatesMember No: 11051
- Join Date
- Jun 2001
- Rep Power
11-06-2005 11:57 PM #89
Re: My conclusion- YOU DON'T HAVE A M5
i've read and supported many of your posts over at Mbworld.org on the E55 thread because i thought that many of the other posters treated you poorly. instead of responding to your posts they made direct personal attacks on you. now on this forum i see that you are calling a poster a "liar". maybe my support was misplaced. it seems to me that jal is not as happy with his M5 as you are. he is being candid about a very difficult spot he is in. everyone on this board should be appreciative of jal's post. it's refreshing to read an honest assesment as opposed to fanboy bs.
11-07-2005 11:40 AM #90
11-07-2005 01:59 PM #91
Re: You had to know all of this BEFORE buying ....(M)
This is why I now own an E34 M5 Touring, the guy I bought it from found out he liked a 540i better. And he might be right, probably a lot more comfortable, not even that slow, less bumpy, less costs (a lot less probably!)
So, how do I feel? Like a dumbass too, but a very fast one :). And an exclusive dumbass too, there can't be more than not even 900 other dumbasses like me, that feels good! And you know what, my car is 10 years old, so a lot more affordable than this E60 M5. And because of that I can afford more than one car (8 I believe), among them an '84 745i. That one I use for the smooth drive if I want to.
I'm probably one of the biggest BMW dumbasses around, but my wife allows me to, so that's a very good excuse, isn't it?
11-07-2005 02:46 PM #92
- Wall, NJ, United StatesMember No: 20605
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Rep Power
Re: M5 has been a mistake for Me
Thanks for your observations. My dealer (NJ) just called and said he has two new M5s on the lot and asked if I wanted to come and see them. Thought #1: I agree that if I can't drive it, I won't buy it. Thought #2: If he has two (countem) two M5s on the lot, the people on the long waiting list may have changed their minds.
11-07-2005 06:54 PM #93
11-07-2005 09:21 PM #94
11-08-2005 05:20 AM #95
- LA, CA, United StatesMember No: 87079
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Rep Power
Go to M5board.com
As a person seriously looking at the new M5 I appreciate your input.
Your mistake was sharing your thoughts on this board. Some of these guys have no constructive input so they flame away and ridicule you.
very boring and tedious.
Go to M5board.com and share your input on the car and I'm sure the feedback you recieve both good and bad will rise above the name calling and petty insults.
Log on, give it a try.
11-08-2005 02:46 PM #96
11-08-2005 02:49 PM #97
11-08-2005 02:49 PM #98
11-08-2005 05:12 PM #99
Re: top gear found the same thing to be true,
Jeremy Clarkson is the king of drama. Watch that review again. First half is complaining about everything from SMG to the suspension, to not being able to figure out how to turn off the nav lady or turn signals. Second half is gushing with praise. As they say in the UK, he's always over-the-top with his reviews...one way or the other..and in this case...both ways!
<IMG SRC="http://forums.e60.spam/uploads/1107289508/gallery_1420_148_73700.jpg" HEIGHT=228 WIDTH=350>
<A HREF="http://forums.e60.spam/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=user&user= 1420&op=view_album&album=145">My 2005 545i pix</A>
2005 545i, silver gray, black leather with anthracite maple wood, sport package, premium sound, navigation, cold weather package, electric rear sunshade, folding rear seat, satellite radio prep, PIAA 4150K fogs, red rear reflectors, hardwired Valentine One
11-09-2005 04:59 AM #100
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