Z8 Structural Design flaw

[Z8Bud]

This is tragic news and I hate to bring reality to this forum and I know that this issue has been debated previously....BUT....I just spoke with a very high level engineer specializing in (among other things) race cars, who owns two Z8's and has intimate knowledge of the design flaw issue. It is his opinion that there is a very serious
design flaw in our Z8's which will eventually lead to failure in nearly all of them. (The strut tower/bracing frame issue). He believes that this is NOT fixable in any simple or cost effective way (struts, bolt on braces etc.). Moreover, he and others believe that there are only two options. One is a MAJOR retrofix (read expensive) and the other is a wholesale buyback of all cars by BMW. He recommends that our Z8's NOT be driven at all, since the minor flexing of everyday driving will eventually cause failure, which is accelerated by a more sudden impact such as driving over railroad tracks or a pothole. The consensus of those in-the-know is that BMW WILL NOT act without a lawsuit....period.! And the more time that goes by without anyone taking action, the more BMW will hunker down and stone-wall owners. I don't know about you, but I did not spend 150K for a paperweight!

[Z8Andy]

[Michael]

I am always amazed when anyone defends the factory with such passion.

I am sure the cost analysis would show that litigating and possibly even losing some suits will be far less costly than a buyback or fixing the flaw.

I don't want to sell. Not to the factory, not to anyone.

Those of us who believe their is a flaw and want to keep their cars may want to focus their energy on correction. I am sure it will bring a faster resolution than waiting for BMW to do anything.

[z8.bob]

“Defends the factory with such passion” when a reasonable question is asked? To turn a reasonable question into a defense is a disturbing leap IMHO

You have to admit that such statements as

<i>“I just spoke with a very high level engineer specializing in (among other things) race cars..”</i>

<i>“It is his opinion that there is a very serious design flaw in our Z8's which will eventually lead to failure in nearly all of them.”</i>

strains anyone’s level of credulity without more facts. Who is this guy? How does he “know” what he knows? What tests has he done? If he is so smart, how come he owns two Z8s? Is he going to be the star witness in the lawsuit?

<i>“He recommends that our Z8's NOT be driven at all, since the minor flexing of everyday driving will eventually cause failure, which is accelerated by a more sudden impact such as driving over railroad tracks or a pothole.”</i>

Before I stop driving my car, its going to be on something more than an anonymous tip. The Internet is full of bad advice and rumor, sprinkled with occasional truth and fact. Without hard facts it’s hard to separate the wheat from the chaff around here. I for one have an open mind on this matter, but I want facts not BS.

BTW don’t drive any of your internal combustion propelled cars, I have it on very good authority that the fumes will kill you. That’s a fact.

[Z8mania]

Focus on correction. Don't wait for BMW... who is going to do a correction if needed? Wouldn't it make sense to get the help from the manufacturer?

Aren't you making some pretty big assumption with your cost analysis? I think if you want to post something that is akin to shouting fire in a crowed theater then you owe us more than rumor and speculation.

[Robbie Robbins]

I think it would benefit all if you would check out the other Z8 board still up and started by Macfly. There is less speculation and more common sense conversation regarding this issue. It is a positive force I think we all need to be tied into. www.bmwz8.us and go to today's posts.

[z8.bob]

[Robbie Robbins]

No in actuality it does not address this particular statement. However this statement is so equivocal in true value that it doesn't need to. What the other site does do is try to find an international direction to confront the issue and resolve it. All Z8 owners should check it out(the Z8 site) and come to their own conclusions given more information than is available here on Roadfly. Now my sttements are not meant or should be construed as a ding on the information here, merely to help owners get some idea of the direction this issue is going.

[Robbie Robbins]

correction "should NOT be construed"

[dwz8]

[Bimmaluva]

contact me at (860) 985-3283.

Regards,
David R. Peck, Esq.

01' 740i sport
04' 325xi
04' x5
05' K1200S

[e8on]

Spell Check anyone??

[z8.bob]

[Wldeyefoto]

To begin with, suggestions that the aluminum used in the Z8's chassis is deteriorating under normal driving conditions and that eventually all Z8's will suffer structural failure is a complete fabrication. There is absolutely no evidence that this is the case and I do not believe a knowledgeable engineer would make that claim without real proof. I don't know who your source is but there is no conceivable way he or she could have done the necessary testing to support such a conclusion.

Furthermore, the amount of data gathered so far is well below what would be required to make a definitive determination as to the cause of the deformations some have experienced. Estimates of 25% of all Z8's showing deformation damage are ludicrous since only a small sampling of overall production was taken and those polled were not randomly chosen. Statistics like these are specious and self-serving. And the qaulity of the available data is highly suspect since no verifiable procedure was used to determine the extent of damage involved. Eyeball assessments made by untrained owners may be able to verify deformation but by no means provide reliable or useable data for an engineering analysis. Plus, no disclosure of driving history has acccompanied the reported damage making it impossible to determine the real cause.

The point here is not to deny that some owners have experienced deformation damage to the shock towers of their Z8s. I believe they have. The point is to avoid jumping to conclusions about the extent and the cause of the deformations. Currently, BMW does not believe they are related to a structural defect in the Z8's chassis design and they may be right. Or they may be wrong. We just don't know. But making unsubstantiated claims about engineering defects and frightening owners into parking their cars by insisting they are going to fall apart under normal driving conditions is totally irresponsible.


Grease Monkey

[Z8Bud]

Sure....point taken. But here we analog guys (read non-engineers) are stuck in between automotive ("digital") engineering experts, each of whom take radically different positions on this issue. The fellow from whom this information was obtained has excellent engineering credentials related to the auto world. I cannot "name" him out of respect for his privacy. I do not know that he would have any ulterior or hidden agendas. I intend to keep my Z8 and would like a "fix" from whomever it comes. Realize that there is an element of chess playing necessary to achieve this goal. Some moves create more of a stir than others.

[Wldeyefoto]

Hey, who're you calling "digital"? I'm a red-blooded analog guy from way back. I think the best use for a CD is as a coaster for my drink and the heart of my all tube stereo system is a Goldmund Reference turntable with an Air Tangent tonearm and Clearaudio Insider Reference Wood cartridge. Digital indeed! Grease Monkey