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  1. #1
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    M5 Waiting Lists and M5 bashing

    There has been alot of posts bashing the M5. One common theme is that the waiting lists are now non existent. Dealers have cars on the ground and are actually calling customers to come and see them. So all of a sudden that means the car is junk??? The waiting list dynamic will happen on every high end car. You'll always get the speculators trying to take advanatge of the guy/gal who wants to be the first in his state to drive the latest. What we are seeing now is supposeed to happen. The speculators are gone, the first in the state syndrome is done. US production is fully allocated. We're supposed to be able to get these cars and we are supposed to be able to buy them at MSRP or less. I waited a year to buy the 645cic, I bought it well under MSRP. I was lss patient and only waited 4 months to order my M5 and guess what, I paid a little less than MSRP. The same thing is already happening with M6's. They aren't even on the ground yet and the waiting lists are shrinking quickly. Simple Supply and Demand. Economics 101. Lack of or declining hype does not make a car junk. If the car was still selling at a $10k premium everybody would be squawking about that. The M5 is one of the 2 best sports cars on the market under $100k. And it's the only Sports Sedan of it's caliber. Sorry MB fans, distant 2nd at best.


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    I agree 100%...

    I couldn't locate a dealership here at my location (Tampa) that had one in stock so I simply ordered one (WITHOUT waiting, car went into production 3 days after order was placed) from a huge dealership in the Atlanta area. And guess what? Mark-up $0.00.

    It's on the vessel already. 3 months ago, I almost bought a M5 from a local dealership with a huge mark-up (almost 10K). I'm happy I didn't...

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    all true plus...

    did anyone consider BMW might have increased dealer allocations and overall supply from past M vehicles due to the overwhelming demand shown with them, like the E46 M3 which had waiting lists and high prices for a long period of time.

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    with what?

    I'm not sure I follow the point in the original post. If you've already ordered or bought the new car, I can't think of a good reason why you'd care about others "bashing" it. Spend your time driving it rather than trying to rationalize the purchase. But if you really do want to rationalize, how does the availability of the car so soon after its introduction (especially relative to the e39) help make your case? That just tells me that demand for the new car is soft.
    '01 M5

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    So difficult to read my post?

    I agree that it's not necessary to pay over MSRP. I thought I made myself clear in my first post??!!!

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    no, yours was easy

    You're happy you "only" paid MSRP, right? I think I got that.

    The original post got my attention and left me wondering why someone would be worried that their new M5 is "junk" because of what someone wrote on a website. Then I was even more confused when he or she seemed to be pleased that there are no waiting lists for the car, and that demand appears to be soft. What part do you agree with?

    Given the supply/demand, I'd be thinking that in 2-3 years, the car is going to be worth about half of what I paid for it. Which is fine if you can afford it, but hardly something to feel good about.

    BTW, I like the car (mostly), though I won't be buying one.'01 M5

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    Re: no, yours was easy

    I'm not worried about my car being junk. I'm simply stating that unsold cars on the ground does not equal junk. At some point BMW Dealers will want a few cars on the ground for the instant gratification crowd. BMW wants a resonable supply/demand curve. My point was supposed to be simple. You can't measure a cars value by the length of the waiting list. Too many speculators and too much initial hype.

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    Yep, that's what I meant..

    I agree on that. First, you shouldn't pay a penny above MSRP for the new M5 (basically, that applies to any car). Second, demand doesn't equal quality. I don't think the demand for the E60 M5 decreased that much - I think they simply increased production.

    Higher production doesn't turn a "supercar" into a "piece of junk" just because you needn't wait for the car for several months.

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    They definately did... M cars are not meant to be


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    Re: no, yours was easy

    You have a great driver's car, no doubt. I'm a fan. But I think the availability of M5s is a result of their price, competition in a market segment which BMW previously had to itself (though I'd include the M6 as a competitor), and the luke warm reception from journalists and enthusiasts. So while a waiting list is not a perfect indicator, it does tell you something about where the market is and where it's likely to go.

    Dealers do not want new M5s on their lots for one day longer than it takes to sell them. It costs them money. A 12 month waiting list of buyers at MSRP is a cash cow. Dealers are not in business to cater to the "instant gratification" crowd, and wouldn't stay in business very long if they were.

    But look, cars are almost never good investments. Like I said, enjoy it, and drive it like it was meant to be driven. Like Ferris said, "if you have the means ..."

    '01 M5

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    Silverstone M5 has been sitting in the showroom

    for over two months at a dealer in the heart of Silicon Valley where money still flows like water. Obviously it's not the price of the car that's holding it back. What else could it be? The car is just too controversial in terms of styling. Plain and simple.

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    That's just YOUR opinion...

    ...plain and simple..

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    At least we got some good discussion going

    The Forum has been kind of slow lately

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    A car that has SAT in the showroom for 2+ months

    in one of the richest spots on this planet Earth says something about the desirability of the car. Can it be the name brand? Nope. Can it be the performance? Nope. Can it be the price? Nope. Can it be STYLING?????

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    Maybe it's something different...

    My dealer in Sarasota had a M5 in his showroom and told me that this car won't be sold at all for the next few months, not even above MSRP since they wanted to use it as a model for potential buyers to sit in. How does that sound?

    A different dealer had one in his showroom as well. I wanted to get it (was offered at MSRP as well). Unfortunately, I was already the 6th potential buyer so the car went to somebody else.

    And you're trying to tell me this car has no demand because it is ugly or has a bad appearance? That doesn't sound right...

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    So why are there waiting-lists??

    So due to this bad styling, all dealerships in the US should have their lots loaded with M5s because nobody wants them (or ever wanted them). Well, this is not the case. I don't know what's wrong with this specific car you are refering to (maybe it's the dealership who wants a $20K mark-up), but you can't apply this situation to the entire US-market. My dealer in Florida told me: "If you want a customized M5, you have to wait 6 months". And why? Because nobody want's this car because the styling is too bad? I doubt it..

    80% of the M5s that are currently in stock have a mark-up. Did you ask this dealer how much he is asking for? If he is looking for a huge mark-up, he might have this car sitting on his lot for an additional 4 months. This has nothing to do with styling - that's just common sense. Even when you're rich, you needn't burn your money and spend more than necessary.

    You can be sure that BMW has no problem in selling their M5s. They don't have a styling problem. The only problem they had was the limited supply for the US-market but they took care of that by increasing the number of allocations for US-dealerships. Another proof that this is a high demand vehicle.

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    Re: M5 Waiting Lists and M5 bashing

    "The waiting list dynamic will happen on every high end car. You'll always get the speculators trying to take advanatge of the guy/gal who wants to be the first in his state to drive the latest. What we are seeing now is supposeed to happen. The speculators are gone, the first in the state syndrome is done. US production is fully allocated. We're supposed to be able to get these cars and we are supposed to be able to buy them at MSRP or less."


    Yep, it is supposed to happen... just not in the matter of months like is happening to the M5. It took over 2 years for the M3 waiting lists to dwindle and prices to drop to MSRP or below. I'm not saying the M5 is junk, just making an observation. Perhaps BMW's strong sales in the entry level market with the 3-series and such is hurting the sales of their higher end models because of the illusion of a lack of exclusivity.

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    I think the price scared off lots of buyers....

    The E39 M5 base price was $70K, but that included a CD changer and FULL leather standard. A fully loaded E39 M5 was $75K (I owned a 2003 M5). In comes the E60 M5 and BMW gets tricky...raises the base to $81K but now full leather is $3500, the seat adjusters are $1900 and the CD changer will cost about say $500. Now you're at $85K (I didn't include the $1900 seat adjusters). A fully loaded M5 is now $96K or so.

    So from 2003 to 2006, the M5 has increased about $20K. Is the car $20K better than the 2003 E39 M5?...500 hp V10...does that do it? I don't know. I just guessing that the price had lots to do with the waiting lists becoming smaller.

    I hope they don't do the same thing to the E90 M3.

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    Re: Maybe it's something different...

    I'm not saying the car has no demand, but rather the demand is much softer than anticipated because the styling is so controversial. Another large dealership in Silicon Valley, Stevens Creek BMW, has two M5s sitting in the lot. I don't ever remember seeing the E39 M5 pile up in dealerships only three months after introduction and I highly doubt a measley $20K difference in price is the overriding factor. There is no doubt the 5 series styling is controversial, as many auto magazines have focused on this issue. In my opinion, a successful car that sells in the $100K range has to be perfect. It has to appeal from the inside and out, possess strong brand recognition, and offer ample performance. The E60 M5 does not hit on all these factors.

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    Re: So why are there waiting-lists??

    The same issue existed with the E39 M5 and the E46 M3 after introduction. The dealers had NO problems moving the cars even with the mark up. I am using Silicon Valley as an example because it takes the price variable out of the equation. If the product is good, it will be sold. The M5 is not being sold.

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