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  1. #21
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    Yes | No

    mind if i post this on other forums?




  2. #22
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    Excellent post but-

    a long, long time back there was another post from someone who compared a new vanos unit with an older one. BMW had made a slight change to fix something that was binding. I can't for the life of me remember what it was nor can I find this on the board (don't have enough time to go back through all post on vanos". If anyone has a link to that post you might forward link for Rajaie and his sidekick to study and incorporate into their study. As I remember it also fixed the problem.

    Anyone remember this?

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    Yes, please do

    Rajaie
    528i 5sp 06/00

  4. #24
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    Yes | No

    V8 cats are under the car, not on the manifold...

    less heat on the VANOS?
    Ed in San Jose. BMW CCA member since 1980 (Nr. 62319).

    '97 540i 6 speed. Build Date 3/97. Aspensilber over Aubergine leather.

  5. #25
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    Re: Great team work! Maybe Loach doesn't enjoy writing

    Thanks!

    I must say, it’s not really a matter of Loach “doesn’t enjoy writing”. Loach is married with young kids. He also has a full time demanding position. I’ve had much more flexibility with my time. I can also be quite persistent. It was a natural fit that I lead the post diagnosis efforts.
    Rajaie
    528i 5sp 06/00

  6. #26
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    Yes | No

    V8's have 2 more cyliinders to produce more heat??


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  7. #27
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    Not so crazy!

    My recommended 'work-around' would be to install a timer ($25 from Radio Shack) that disconnects the intake VANOS solenoid +ve wire for the first 5 minutes of a drive cycle, thereby avoiding the oscillations and/or stalling. I have the timer but didn't fit it, since I replaced the VANOS myself. Anyone budget-sensitive and understands basic electrical stuff might want to consider trying this though.

  8. #28
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    Re: A crazy idea ...

    Wouldn't it be easier to figure out the seal material/size and source them from a 3rd party (some place like this http://www.marcorubber.com/orings.htm).

  9. #29
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    Re: V8 cats are under the car, not on the manifold...


    If our hypothesis is right, the i6 cats were moved closer to the engine due to the ability of the double vanos to strictly contain high combustion temperatures. This is the primary design feature of EGR. Lowering peak combustion temperatures lowers the creation on NOx.
    On single vanos autos BMW kept the cats under the car further away from the engine. This is the normal positioning in most autos.
    The E60 V8 received a double vanos and in conjunction the cats were moved up onto the exhaust manifold.

    There are new emissions restrictions coming online for auto manufacturers. Addressing the late delay before cats begin to function on cold starts is apparently an important aspect of meeting the new criterion. Moving the cats closer to the engine can significantly shorten the time needed to bring them to operating temperatures.
    Rajaie
    528i 5sp 06/00

  10. #30
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    Yes | No

    Has different design vanos

    Rajaie
    528i 5sp 06/00

  11. #31
    badger8
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    Yes | No

    RECALL!

    Same issue and out of warranty.

  12. #32
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    Re: Yes, great work ...


    At the end of the writeup there's a section that addresses this idea. It's more complicated than is initially perceived.

    We don’t know what type of inner seals BMW is currently utilizing. It may very well be Nitrile. Using Viton (DuPont) could address the deterioration the Nitrile is experiencing, but Viton is known to be more prone to cracking in dynamic movement applications. Viton is used for static movement high temperature corrosive chemical applications. Nitrile is more susceptible to high temperatures and chemicals, but can do wonderfully in dynamic movement application.
    This is my understanding.
    Rajaie
    528i 5sp 06/00

  13. #33
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    Yes | No

    Good write-up! I went through 2 vanos already!

    Mark
    Phoenix, AZ

    TAKE THAT MERCEDES!


    Retired on 7/16/04 @44k :-(
    2000 528/5. Production 8/2000,
    BLK/BLK, PP, CWP, HTD WHEEL, XENON
    custom stereo, DVD nav, hands free car phone
    CDV delete, RSK, trans mounts
    Fresh-scent Pine Air Freshener

    Problems to date-symptoms (all covered under warranty):
    defective A/C climate control headunit- fan settings non-functional @38k 4/07/04
    final stage unit & recode A/C module - fan settings non-functional @35k 12//03
    fuel door lock actuator - keyless door entry fuse kept blowing @ 30k
    camshaft position sensor - check engine light @27k
    battery replacement - low voltage, @ 25k, 2 yrs old
    vanos - rough idle when cold. took 3 dealer visits. @24k (problem resurfaced 1 year later!!)
    O2 sensor - check engine light @19k

  14. #34
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    Yes, they will never admit to a defect in the

    cooling system, as that would make them liable for all the engines that get fried when they overheat. The pixel issue is much easier to deal with for them and the goodwill generated is worth the cost. Its all about money.

  15. #35
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    We tried this idea


    It may be that you’re referencing an issue with the i6 pre 99 single vanos.

    As stated in the assessment letter to BMW, one of our first ideas came from a head BMW dealership mechanic. He said the problem was due to tight tolerances on the helical gears. The splined shafts had also been redesigned. We acquired the latest design splined shafts and installed them. There was no improvement. Loach had an expert consider the new and old design splined shafts. The expert said they were identical except for the obvious key tooth change. Upon further conversation with the BMW mechanic, he acknowledged that his assessment had not been validated.

    We also replaced a vanos valve. This somehow worked on the first attempt, but the problem reverted. We chocked it up to coincidence.

    There aren’t really other areas to cause binding problems. Replacing only the vanos pistons on a failing vanos and having the problem resolve, still till today, is a significant finding. As noted the piston inner seals had also clearly deteriorated and hardened. The vanos piston has three contact points. Two are the two sets of seals with the vanos cylinder. The third is its mounting with a bolt to the splined shaft. This mounting is quite flush and partially incased. When removing the bolts we did not find that they were loose. We had also removed and remounted these bolt as part of our first trials and there was no change in the symptoms.

    Thanks for the note. If you do find the link, I’d be interested in seeing it.
    Rajaie
    528i 5sp 06/00

  16. #36
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    Also file complaint on NHSTA

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/

    Click on Consumer Complaints and file a complaint.

    Below is mine. I used to own a 00 528i 5sp 8/00 production

    My ODI complaint:

    Make : BMW Model : 528I Year : 2000
    Manufacturer : BAYERISCHE MOTOREN WERKE
    Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
    ODI ID Number : 10056914 Number of Deaths: 0
    Date of Failure: February 16, 2003
    VIN : WBADM5348YB...
    Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
    Summary:
    2000 BMW 528 IDLES ROUGH IN COLD CLIMATES (2002/2003). THIS PRODUCES NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS. THE PROBLEM GOES AWAY ONCE THE CAR IS WARMED UP OR IN WARMER CLIMATES. DEALER CONSTANTLY STATES "PROBLEM UNREPRODUCABLE". AFTER NUMEROUS VISITS I LEFT THE CAR OVERNIGHT AT DEALERSHIP AND THE FOLLOWING MORNING WENT BACK, GRABBED A TECHNICIAN AND HAD HIM SIT IN THE CAR WITH ME. AFTERWARDS TECHNICIAN SAID IT'S PROBABLY A PART CALLED THE VANOS UNIT. HAD PART REPLACED THEN PROBLEM WENT AWAY. THIS WINTER (2003/2004), PROBLEM RESURFACED.*AK
    Mark
    Phoenix, AZ

    TAKE THAT MERCEDES!


    Retired on 7/16/04 @44k :-(
    2000 528/5. Production 8/2000,
    BLK/BLK, PP, CWP, HTD WHEEL, XENON
    custom stereo, DVD nav, hands free car phone
    CDV delete, RSK, trans mounts
    Fresh-scent Pine Air Freshener

    Problems to date-symptoms (all covered under warranty):
    defective A/C climate control headunit- fan settings non-functional @38k 4/07/04
    final stage unit & recode A/C module - fan settings non-functional @35k 12//03
    fuel door lock actuator - keyless door entry fuse kept blowing @ 30k
    camshaft position sensor - check engine light @27k
    battery replacement - low voltage, @ 25k, 2 yrs old
    vanos - rough idle when cold. took 3 dealer visits. @24k (problem resurfaced 1 year later!!)
    O2 sensor - check engine light @19k

  17. #37
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    Yes | No

    agreed!


  18. #38
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    don't forget to mention bad dealer behavior

    great post! I hope BMWNA is reading this.

    Should emphasize more on how HARD was for many of us to even get the dealers to want to admit that the car has the problem, when they were already aware of this; how they use tricks, like starting your car in the morning form another parking lot & bring it to you, showing the cold engine gauge and “customer stats rough idle when cold – can’t duplicate symptom”.

    I personally had to go to 3 dealers in order to find one that WANTS to listen to the engine when cold and than replace the Vanos – I also heard a lot of people on this board only that simply gave up.

    Great post, keep us posted.

    max

  19. #39
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    Re: 6-cyl double vanos problem assessment

    Excellent and interesting post. I'm very interested in this as I'm currenly shopping for an E39 and have been digging into problem areas with these cars in the archives.

    Hope this doesn't sound dumb but has anyone ever considered looking for replacement O-rings for the piston anywhere else? I can't beleive BMW doesn't have a rebuilt kit (maybe coming?) but there are a lot of suppliers of O-rings out there in many different comounds. It would take some work and willingness to experiment but it might be possible. A company like McMaster-Carr (great web site) has thousands of different O-rings.

    I also wonder if it's possible to clean the bore of the unit (as you might do with a brake caliper) Probably a last resort before caughing up $500 for a new unit but I would sure be temted to try it if I had this problem.

    Mike

  20. #40
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    Yes | No

    This is probably the way forward from here


    Pursuing this issue with the government and particularly the EPA seems to be the logical next step.
    There are several issues that can be taken up including the cats, but I suspect our strongest card is the non presence of an OBDII EGR fault code.
    Loach had pointed this out to me on several occasions early on, but I was just having a hard time keeping up with him. I didn’t even know what EGR was.
    Monitoring the EGR function and posting a code when the EGR is faulty must surely be an EPA requirement. The whole idea of OBDII is to monitor and report emissions anomalies. EGR is a primary emissions control function.
    To pursue this, it would be quite valuable to first prove that the EGR is faulty. In North Carolina, only hydrocarbon (HC) and carbon monoxide (CO) is tested (sniffed). As of this year these tests are no longer mandatory for pre 96 (OBDII) autos. State inspection facilities no longer even need to retain this equipment.
    We need to find a facility that would test for Nitrogen Oxides (NOx). I’m not sure if revving the engine at idle is sufficient criteria for enabling the EGR, or if the car actually needs to be moving. If the second, then a Dyno would theoretically be needed.

    It would be great if someone could look into this matter.
    Rajaie
    528i 5sp 06/00

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