6-cyl double vanos problem assessment

[chivas]

or Montvale.. can't remember but MB is up there too. you would think an engineer up there would have this problem and tried to get a fix out there... or maybe they know about it, reported it and management just sent a letter out to SA managers to ignore it until the warrenties are over and then charge the clients so BMWNA doesn't have to fork over any cost of repairs.

look how long this thread is and how much participation BMWNA has so far.

going back to get a 300ZX... at least Nissan stands by their bad PTU problem and fixes it for free.

[abaroiant]

I have this exact same issue, which brought me to this forum (via E46 fanatics).

Rajaie and Loach; excellent work. I can't say enough about the value of your investigations..

My story:

2000 328CI M52TU 77k miles on the dial.

It started w/ very minor cold idle drops about 2 or 3 years ago.. it only did it a few times when it was really cold. Progressively, this has gotten worse.

This winter (I live in the SF Bay Area, it doesn't get that cold...) it actually stalled a few times. The idle will suddenly drop a few times every time the car starts cold, almost regardless of the temp.

The engine idle, even when warm, dances around a little.

Over the past month, the "Service Engine Soon" indicator light has come on, completely rendomly. It stays on for a few days and it clears itself. I have yet to read the code, but I almost believe they're related.

This is extremely annoying and dissapointing if a $2 part will cause thousands of dollars of damage and repair, and if BMW does not own up to this design flaw.

Next step for me, is to read the fault codes and to see if they're in any way related to this issue.

Thanks again for all the work and input everyone.

[rajaieq]

You have a good understanding of the situation. Your suggestion is reasonable and possibly viable.
Upon startup the DME will immediately advance the exhaust timing and retard the intake timing. But BMW obviously felt this was not good enough and inserted the spring. Is the issue just initial startup or is it also the oil pressure buildup delay?
I don’t know how detrimental to startup it would be to have a full valve overlap adjustment. Will the engine start? Will it just be rough? Can we setup this test? Very cold weather/engine would probably be the worst condition.
There’s also another important factor to consider. Is any of the DME software adapted to address the presence of the spring? The DME modulates the vanos valves at 100+ Hz between the two oil chambers to keep up the oil pressure. Is the software algorithm skewed due to the spring? We don’t know the answer(s) and it’s probably not worth while speculating.

I would think practically the effective way of addressing your idea is to simply try it and see what happens. This will take some effort on someone’s part. Any volunteers?
Rajaie
528i 5sp 06/00

[rajaieq]

One way of putting pressure on BMW is to prove the EGR is not functioning. If the vanos is malfunctioning then the EGR should be failing. The DME not setting an OBDII code as a result of EGR failure should be an EPA violation. The EPA would be interested in this info. BMW will likely act under EPA pressure.
California now has dynos at the inspection stations which allow for fully testing the EGR. We need owners in California to have their cars inspected and report the EGR results.

California owners, please be involved and help facilitate acquiring this data.
Rajaie
528i 5sp 06/00

[tdhardin]

I have the problem as well.I think that compiling a petition for review by an attorny who is a class action attorny is called for.
Damion

[rajaieq]

Rajaie
528i 5sp 06/00

[tdhardin]

they have successfully won class actions in the music biz, maybe worth contacting them.
Damion

[David G]

I wanted to get outside the office during lunch, so I just sat in my car in our large parking lot and read a magazine. It was cold out, so I turned on the engine and ran the heater. The engine kept studdering badly while it was warming up. It almost stalled and at times I pressed the gas pedal to make sure it stayed on. As it warmed up the stalling decreased but the RPMs continued to fluctuate.

I took the car to the shop a few weeks ago to check for this problem. They checked the throttle body, the idle control valve and replaced a vacuum hose.

I thought the cold idle condition had improved but today confirmed that it remains the same. The car runs perfectly other than this condition with 73k miles.

Thank you Rajaie and Loach; if it weren't for you I would be back at the shop. At least now I know it is an inherent design issue.

David

[SRR2]

... unfortunately the best I can do for BMW test platforms at the moment is a high-mileage M60 and a low mileage M62TU, neither of which is going to do you a lick of good.

If BMW doesn't support their owners on this one it would be nice if a solution as relatively easy and inexpensive as this would work out for everyone.

[SRR2]

[chivas]

many other states.

[dc52240]

Has anyone thought about starting a petition online and sending the information to NHSTA,EPA,BMW etc?? Would this be a good idea?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/?ltl=1143639835 example petition page

[abaroiant]

I have the Peake ODBII code reader coming in the mail in about a week.

I'll be able to see if/what fault codes are being generated by this (I have the "CEL" coming and going intermittently).

I'm also due for SMOG this summer.. so I should be getting my DMV notice any day now.. I will take it in and see what the outcome is and if any of these are related and support our arguement.

Stay tuned... (<-- no pun intended...)

[rajaieq]

Rajaie
528i 5sp 06/00

[rajaieq]

Rajaie
528i 5sp 06/00

[rajaieq]

Rajaie
528i 5sp 06/00

[rajaieq]

Rajaie
528i 5sp 06/00

[dc52240]

[tdhardin]

maybe one thing to do would be to start flooding certain reciepients with letters ( media, dealer, bmwna,EPA) these could go through one initial mail box to compile a master list.

[k1e46]

Thanks Rajaie,
Well, I have had the same problem with my Wifes 2000 328i.
Less power, Idle problem when it's cold (live in Utah) etc.
The first time I encounter this problem was three years ago when
My check engine came on. I took the car to the dealer and they changed my cam sensor under warranty (which now I know they just reprogrammed my DME). Right after I got the car back I noticed the loss of power and complained to the service rep and she had a Mechanic drive the car around the block and he concluded that the car was fine. This was in summer and the following winter my idle problem started. I took the car to the dealer and left it over night for them to start in the morning. They called and said that there is nothing wrong with the idle and no codes showing and as long as there aren't any codes they can't do anything. I complained about the loss of power again and the rep told me to use high octane gas. I told her I used nothing but high octane gas in all my cars, and her reply was well we can't find any codes so oh well.
To make the story short, after reading your post now I know what's going on and I am very veryyyyyyyyyy angry. I like to fix the problem but I think I'll wait to see if BMW would do anything about it first or at least come up with better parts so I don’t have to do it again next year.
Thanks again for your post.
Keyvan M.
1970 1602 (TRACK CAR)
1974 2002Tii (SHOW CAR)
1989 325ix (Daily Driver)
1991 325ic (summer car)
2000 328i (wife's car)