Replacin ESSO LT71141 Tranny fluid W/AMSOIL (long)

[Hollywood]

After Extensive research into this whole Lifetime BMW/ESSO tranny fluid thingy... I have much input on changing my fluid in the 5HP30 A5S-560Z Transmission.

If your transmission has high miles 100K+ and has never been changed... be very careful shocking the transmission by flushing all the GUNK and VARISH out of it, it will clog the filter, valves, etc... From many INDY BMW shops recommendation is: absolutely 2 changes of fluid and likewise, having 2 filter kits.

Noteables:

I contacted both REDLINE & AMSOIL and called their bluff (Generalization of being fully compatiable) on doing testing and commiting to FULL compatiability with changing from one manufacturer to another 'AFTEMARKET' brand of Transmission fluid. Both manufacturers fully support compatibility in the 5HP30 trannys.

So instead of paying anywhere from $13-42 a liter for the ESSO LT 71141 stuff, you may want to save quite a bit of money switching to one of the fully synthetic brands. I know REDLINE's new D4 tranny fluid has done plenty of testing to ensure meeting requirements of the Dexron IV standard that's in the works... of course fully backwards compatiable with Dexron III & II. But, if you have money to burn or need a secure state of mind... go with BMW dealers and Pay The Man.

I will let you all know how things evolve after I change the fluid for the 1st round this weekend. I will be using AMSOIL, since I did get a very good deal with a connection I have (No Affiliation to AMSOIL). I am unsure about MOBILE 1's fully synthetic ATF and compatibility with 5HP30 trannys. Maybe someone can chime in on Mobile One. Until then, More to follow...

Hollywood

PS: here's a very late Compatibilty ATF chart AMSOIL technical support emailed to me:

Technical Support Bulletin

TSB: DT - 2005-09-20
Date: 09/19/2005
Revision: 02/24/2006 <====== "Very Recent Revision"
Page 1 of 2
Subject: AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid Applications Guide
Technical Service Bulletin
Product Description: AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Submitted By: KD Reviewed By: DY Approved By: Alan Amatuzio
Distribution: ___Internal X All

OBJECTIVE:
To define the automatic transmission fluid specifications
and oils where AMSOIL Synthetic Universal
Automatic Transmission Fluid can be recommended.

ISSUES:
Many automotive manufacturers are requiring special
fluids for their automatic transmissions. Some
specialty automatic transmission fluids vary greatly
in viscosity, or frictional characteristics requiring
specific fluids for each application. AMSOIL Synthetic
Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid can
be used in many of them.
TECHNICAL DISCUSSION:
Automatic transmissions are becoming more complicated
and are manufactured with specific frictional
characteristics and viscosity needs. There are many
special automatic transmission fluids and specifications
required by manufacturers. AMSOIL Synthetic
Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid is
formulated to meet and exceed many of those specifications.
Specifications may include manufacturer
specifications, manufacturer recommended oils and
manufacturers part numbers.


RECOMMENDATION:
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission
Fluid (ATF) is a fully synthetic transmission
fluid designed to be used in place of many domestic
and foreign automatic transmission requirements for
automotive, heavy-duty on and off road, hydraulic
and power steering applications requiring any of the
following.
Automotive:
• GM DEXRON II and III
• GM Part# 12346143 or 123478470
• Ford MERCON
• Ford Part# XT-2-QDX
• Ford MERCON V
• Ford Part# XT-5-QM
• Chrysler ATF+ thru ATF+4
• Honda ATF-Z1 (not for use in CVT transmissions)
• Honda Part# 08200-9001
• Toyota Type T & T-IV
• Mitsubishi/Hyundai DIAMOND SP II & SP III
• Mercedes Benz 236.1, 236.6, 236.7 & 236.9
• Mercedes Benz Part# 001 989 21 03 10
• BMW Part# 83 22 9 407 765
• BMW Part# 83 22 0 026 922
• Nissan Matic D
• JWS 3309
• Porsche Part# 000 043 204 41
• Shell LA 2634 & 3403
• Texaco ETL 7045E
• LT 71141 (ESSO)
• VW/Audi part #G 052 162 (-A1, -A2)
Heavy-Duty on and off road:
• ALLISON C-3, C-4
• CATERPILLAR TO-2
• VOITH G 607 & G 1363
• ZF TE-ML14A, B and C
Hydraulic:
• VICKERS I 286S and M 2950S
Power steering:
• DEXRON
• MERCON
Although AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic
Transmission Fluid is recommended for many of the
specifications required by several manufacturers,
there are a few special automatic transmission fluid
types or specifications AMSOIL Synthetic Universal
Automatic Transmission Fluid does not replace.

AMSOIL INC., AMSOIL Bldg., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2006
Date: 09/20/05
TSB: DT - 2005-09-20
Date: 09/19/2005
Page 2 of 2
Subject: AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid Applications Guide
Technical Service Bulletin
Product Description: AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Submitted By: KD Reviewed By: DY Approved By: Alan Amatuzio
Distribution: ___Internal X All


AMSOIL ATF is NOT recommended to replace the
following oils:
• FORD MERCON SP (Part #XT-6-QSP)
• GM AUTO TRAK II (Part #12378508)
• HONDA CVT
• LAND ROVER TEXACO N402
• MAZDA ATF M-V
• NISSAN MATIC J (Part #999MP-MTJ00P)
• NISSAN MATIC K (Part #999MP-MTK00P)
• NISSAN CVT FLUID NS-2 (Part #999MPNS200P)
• Volvo Part# 1131540-8
• Not for use in CVT transmissions
AMSOIL INC., AMSOIL Bldg., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2006
Date: 09/20/05

[jlevie]

Given the amount of fluid that will be trapped in the torque converter, I'd say to run through two filter/fluid changes and an additional fluid only change if you are changing the fluid type.

BMWCCA 335857, Are you?
http://www.bmwcca.org

[Hollywood]

You can never be too cautious in removing as much of the orginal ESSO LT fluid.

2 - Filter changes

3 - Fluid changes

[357]

Is flushing with say, BG equipment advisable, as I
think it would flush the entire system including
Torque Converter on an Auto?

[SRR2]

... where did those two BMW fluid part numbers come from? I happened to have realoem open and dropped them into their part number lookup just for the heck of it. No hits. I don't know how comprehensive realoem is, but so far, they've been infallible every time I've used them, and all the fluids I'm familiar with are listed there somewhere.

[jlevie]

On a higher mileage transmission a power flush can knock deposits free and a complete change can dissolve & loosen varnish, which can plug valves and passages. After a good bit of mileage (say over 40-50k) it seems to be better to do several partial changes spread over time.BMWCCA 335857, Are you?
http://www.bmwcca.org

[kbsilver]

The Amsol may be a suitable replacement, but is it fully compatable with the Esso? Dropping the pan will only change half the fluid so you will have 50/50.

[Hollywood]

The first change this weekend will be the pan drop and cleaning of the pan. I will let it drain for 24 hours... so I will measure the total fluid expelled. No other changes. AMSIOL states their Full Synthetic ATF is completely compatiable with ESSO LT-71141.

I will run it through the gears and drive it... then do another drain/clean of the pan and this time I will replace the fluid & filter.

The last one is to change all the fuild with the BG machine and drop the pan clean a final time and replace all the fluid with new AMSOIL and a new Filter kit

I have 2 5 gallon JUGGs of the Synthetic AMSOIL ATF, so I have plenty to do these incremental changes and non shocking flushes.

Totals:
3 changes of the fluid, the last, a complete BG machine flush
2 changes of the filter

Because of the mileage 120K and I have no records/history of the fuild ever being changed, this is why I am taking all these steps. Once this is all completed, the future servicing will be one quick change of fluid and filter with the BG machine at about 40-45K mile increments.

Hollywood

PS: Has anyone tried replacing the LT fluid with Royal Purple or Mobile 1 FULL Synthetic ATFs?

[Filehorse]

perform as well in the long-term AND is compatible with the Esso LT71141, then by all means go for it. All I ask is that you file follow-up reports every 5,000 miles so long as you own the car. With regard to substituting/mixing other fluids for/with the Esso fluid, the rest of us need a guinea pig to take that bold step and move out ahead of the curve. I think your approach - from a process standpoint - is excellent. The only question I keep asking myself it whether it's worth the ~$200 you may save to potentially(keyword) risk damage to the 2nd most expensive component in the car. I'm just skeptical that this is the best place to try and save a buck to service the lifeblood of a multi-thousand dollar ZF transmission. Good luck.


http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/6960596-2.html


2002 525i Steptronic Sport/Premium | Build Date: 05/02
47,000 Ultimate Driving miles
Xenons
Style 81s | Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s
Titanium Gray | Gray Leather
35% LLumar ATR LLumaStar tint
Valentine 1
Steering wheel position memory w/Alzheimers

[jmarchun]

I've been studying this issue myself- I've decided to go with the VW/Audi Pentosin replacement fluid available online for approx $9/q. I'll post if I have any problems. I think the Audi/VWs have the same ZF lines of transmission and have been more brave about trying out different formulas. See the links below for their experiences.

On the audi boards I've heard that people have had success with the Redline, but not the BG.

I think while I've been reading posts here that SOME don't believe in changing the fluid but the consensus on the other boards seem much more geared to changing. But's thats probably just my perception.


http://www.taligentx.com/passat/maintenance/atfchange/
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothrea...int&id=1064342

[jmarchun]

also note that they sell the same Pentosin ATF on bavauto as a direct replacement for the Esso



bavauto picture of ATF replacement

[Filehorse]

Esso LT71141 in an Audi or VW container. Since the Esso was available from Jaggi Imports at a very reasonable price, I elected to keep dancing with the same partner.


2002 525i Steptronic Sport/Premium | Build Date: 05/02
47,000 Ultimate Driving miles
Xenons
Style 81s | Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s
Titanium Gray | Gray Leather
35% LLumar ATR LLumaStar tint
Valentine 1
Steering wheel position memory w/Alzheimers

[texmln]

I tried it with BG fluid and the tranny just doesn't work properly. Sure, your wife wouldn't know the difference until the $4,000 tranny shredded but I could tell immediately that moving away from Esso was a bad call. A highly respected SoCal BMW independent swore up and down it was "compatible" and said they never had a problem but I'm here to tell you it isn't compatible. I put 1,000 miles on it before I called it quits and getting Esso back in there was the best decision I've ever made. Whether it's Amsoil, BG, Redline, Mobil, Quaker State do not take the risk.

For the switch back I got my Esso from Jaggi but I can also confirm the Audi/VW fluid is 100% Esso too. Not only did a local VW tech confirm it to me but VW and Audi use some of the same ZF tranny models. I also bought a quart just to compare and if you put brand new Audi/VW fluid next to the Esso it's clear from the look, the feel, the smell, and the viscosity it is the same stuff.

Don't leave the Esso, it is simply not worth the savings.

[Hollywood]

I'll be the Guinea Pig on this one... BTW,

I sent an email back to AMSOIL, letting them know exactly what I am doing... and who's watching and listening.

I am holding them responsible for ANY Anomalies!!!

We shall see all!

Riffs, Zack

[kbsilver]

Have a 540iT and will be doing this in a few years. Transmission was replaced by previous owner (blew reverse). Was planning in changing fluid every 30K miles (just what you can get from dropping the pan and filter).

[Filehorse]

The dealer would only have sell me the full 20 liter container at double the cost. Since Jaggi Imports is also a recognized ZF tranmsission service center, I also ordered the filter and pan gasket from them. Most of the details are included in my writeup.

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/6960596-2.html


2002 525i Steptronic Sport/Premium | Build Date: 05/02
47,000 Ultimate Driving miles
Xenons
Style 81s | Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s
Titanium Gray | Gray Leather
35% LLumar ATR LLumaStar tint
Valentine 1
Steering wheel position memory w/Alzheimers

[maggot]

The main reason for using LT71141 is that it was formulated to work with the ZF transmission. The fluid combined with the way the lockup torque converter is applied gives it a controlled apply. This is computerized. Use of another product may cause slip codes and go into failsafe. When I rebuild these transmissions I always use the Esso ATF. If I am asked to do an oil and filter change I am wary to ask if there are drivability problems. Often customers think a change of ATF will fix the tranny. Save your money, wait for the box to fail. Most failures are not the oils fault. If you must change it, cut open the filter to check for debris. If there is some present a new filter is not going to stop the inevitable.

[Mike S]

Maggot, could you please clarify. Are you saying DON'T change the fluid unless there are driveability problems? Or are you saying that if driveability problems show up then changing the fluid is a waste because the tranny's already shot?

[bmwm3coupe]

I don't rebuild transmissions, but I have done PLENTY of re-search on the subject, including fluid analysis on my own tranny. The Esso fluid is not that special, and using other fluids does not necessarily make the tranny work bad/weird. Myself and many more have moved away from Esso to other compatible fluids and our trannies still work wonderful.

My tranny was working great before my first fluid change, but the fluid analysis showed clearly that the fluid was abrasive to the transmission internals, so a change after 86K miles was already overdue. After the second fluid change, the fluid analysis showed a very significant improvement, and now after 20K miles, my tranny is still working perfect.

Here is my first post on the subject and fluid change:
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/8573521-1.html


Here is my second fluid change:
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/8618599-1.html


I will be doing another fluid change and analysis within the next month or two, in order to keep fresh fluid in there.

The real bottom line, our trannies would last MUCH longer if fluid is changed often, unlike the bull-[Oops!] we get from BMW about "lifetime fluids".

William
Richardson, Texas
2005 BMW 330i Auto, TiSilver, Prem Package (her car)
2000 BMW 540i Auto, TiSilver, Sport/Prem Package (my car)

Retired/sold:
2006 Dodge Charger Daytona - Top Banana
2002 M3 Coupe with SMG
1995 525i auto
1991 535i 5-speed manual