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    Is EML the same as Motoronic in a 1994 750IL ,E32

    O meed help please. My 1994 750IL with only 90,000 miles on it goes to lipm mode where half the cylinders don't work. When that happens the car does not go more that 20 miles per hour. I took it a independent mechanic and he put his tester on it and said the EML module is bad. He said he can not read any error codes. I asked him how many EML modules were there and he said two. Worse than the stealers, he said it would cost me $2100 to replace the EML module. Needless to say I declined.

    I opened the e-box and found two Motoronic modules with part numbers 0 261 200 352. Of cource in the e-box there are 4 slots. The first one on the right facing the radiator looks like a big connector, then one motoronic module with the above part number, then another module without any part number and another motorinc module in the far end facing the dash with the same part number as above.

    SO it looks like there is one motoronic for each bay of the 6 cylinders. My question now is which one is refered to as the EML modules. Or maybe the EML module is in a different place all together and I don't know.

    Can somebody help me please? Thanks, Kazmainiandevil


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    change the mechanic immy- he does'nt know anything

    First of all, the EML module sits between the 2 MOTRONIC units in the e-box in engine room passenger side. And there is only ONE in the engine room.
    But I am for 99,99% sure that the EML is o.k.
    An EML you can buy in any case for less than 100 $ or similar as a used part in the part of the wold where I live, because there is oversupply as no one needs it. They become very, very seldom defective.
    I have one for the pre-facelift engine just right in front of me, the Bosch p/n is 0 205 000 005, BMW # 1 725388078 and it is out of a 1988 750iL.
    So your p/n will be 015 instead of the end # 005.
    Here is one
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-850I-850CI-750IL-E32-E31-TRANSMISSION-EML-015_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33596QQihZ014QQitem Z330006717549QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
    Vines is just selling one for 125 $ buy now, but that is the old one (005). if you really want a spare EML, contact them
    http://stores.ebay.com/Vines-Automotive
    Ask them for an EML for the facelift M70 engine.

    Now to your problem:
    1. When you switch the ignition into positionII: do you see the EML light on in the cluster for about 2 seconds and then it goes off? Is that the case, fine, first possible fault solved.

    " He said he can not read any error codes."
    Does that mean, he got an error message on the fault reader?
    Which diagnostic tool?
    If he cannot read anything and just get's an error message, then the reporting system between the main engine cable loom and the diagnostic box is interrupted. That means there are maybe some or one pins not properly connected between X20 and X21 and the diagnosis box.
    I had this once about 6 months ago. I could not read any faults on my code reader system. I exchanged the 2 MOTRONIC units, the EML, cluster and many other things, as I have a lot of spare parts and several 750. Finally it turned out that there were 2 cable connections loose from the main cable loom of the engine to the diagnostic box.

    But first of all pls answer if you can see the EML light or not.
    And look for a good technician which understands electronics or can at least read wiring diagrams.
    Do you have a Bentley repair Manual for the E32?
    If not, you need one for the wiring diagrams.
    A 750 is so easy when it comes to fault finding. One can switch so many things from one side to the other as the parts are identical.
    So then remove the plug from one of the MAF. Is the engine dying, you know which side is wrong. And so on.
    So, just calm down, think about everything what he told you and I told you and let us have your detailed info what the actual situation is. And then we proceed. Step by step. But we need your detailed input.

    Go to this website, further down there is a link to european transmissions, click that one, almost at the end there is a link about the EML, how the EML works, that explains you a lot.



    http://tridem.han-solo.net/auto/erich/auto.htm

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    Re: change the mechanic immy- he does'nt know anything

    Thank you so much for the details. It looks like you know more than the mechanic I visited already. The EML lights come on and goes off the way there are supposed to. There are no error massage showing up. The engines comes up like a champ and runs very smooth. But the RPM does not go higher than 1500 9 out of 10 times. Here is what has been done on the car about a year ago:

    1 - The lower and upper oil pan casket was replaced,
    2 - The main bearing for the drive shaft was replaced
    3 - The two oxygen sensors were replaced
    4 - New belts were put on the motor
    5 - A new battery
    6 - Gas throttle valves replaced (rebuilt ones) and another set the second time just in case the first set did not do trick
    7 - New distributor caps and rotors were put in.

    You mentioned about those broken wires. Can you point me exactly how I can find them. I do not have a Bently's manual at this time.

    Thank you so much. Kazmaninandevil

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    Jim Derrig 93 750
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    Re: change the mechanic immy- he does'nt know anything

    clarification please:

    when engine is in limp mode are you getting an eml or check engine light?

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    o.k., now go on and test

    First of all you have to test all wirings in the engine room which are related to the engine ECU.
    Sounds terrible, but not that much. You have seen the diagnostic box in the engine roon on drivers side, the round one with many pins inside. each pin has a certain function. And they get the info from X20 and X21, that are similar round, black connection boxes sitting besides the diagnostic box towards the firewall.
    I tell it to you simple so that you hopefully understand it without special knowledge.
    Then you need or the trustful mechanic needs wiring diagrams to check all the wires going from the engine into X20 and X21, and from there to the diagnosis box. that is the first thing you have to do. Sounds terrible for someone not involved in electrics, but any electrician will know what to do, once he has the wiring diagrams.
    This is an example then how to check from the MOTRONIC, but this is the old version
    http://ow.no/images/stories/files/ecu-pin_88-90_750il.pdf
    Go to the website below and look for
    Wiring diagrams / Stromlaufpläne
    http://tridem.han-solo.net/auto/erich/auto.htm

    There you or your electrician will find the details for exactly the production year you have. Note that it is important to talk about production month and year, not the first registration date.

    Establish first the functional system of the diagnostic system and then go on.
    Have you ever tried a stomp test?
    If you do not know, go to above pade again and look for stomp test.
    Maybe you also do not get any fault codes because the reporting system is lacking of communication between the systems.

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    EML issues. I don't get check engine at all howeve

    r evry so often when I turn the engine off I get Trans program. I also get check break light which has to do with one of the light bulbs in the tail light but that's the least of my worries. The car is shifting just fine when it's not in limp mode so I don't really think there is a transmission problem. Kazmainiandevil

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    Re: o.k., now go on and test

    I know where the diagnostics and the X20 and X21 round black connectors are. I have done high level visual inspections and did not find any obvious breaks, wear or tears on the wires. I will do what you suggested starting with a stomp test.

    One other thing I want to add, is that the other day when the engine was running idle, I pulled out the oil stick to check the oil level, and all of a sudden oil poured out from where the oil stick is inserted. Is that normal? Is it possinle the driver side bay does not have proper oil circulation? Could that have impact on the engine going to limp mode?

    Thanks for your help so far. You have been very helpful. Kazmainiandevil.

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    oil pour out means PCV faulty

    There are two PCV valves and as many non-returning valves underneath the two DK's (throttle motors). The PCV system is there to suck out the blowby in the crank space. The blowby is combusted gas slips through the piston rings; the gas increases the pressure inside the crank and as a result pushes oil up the dipstick tube. Even new engines have some blowbys. Correction is to clean the existing PCV valves or to change to new ones.

    About your original problem. There are more than one reason but one you should check is whether one of the two fuel pumps has failed, or fails intermittently.
    If the 94 750's engine control is designed same as my 88 750, then the DMEs have no way of knowing whether the fuel pressure to each bank is at the correct level. You might even have zero pressure and the rest of the DMEs will continue to run, until sometime later it suddenly realizes the O2 sensor output has not moved, and then raises a fault code.

    Similarly the DME/tranny CPU will recognize (I don't know how) that the throttle control input (gas pedal), engine output, and transmission gearing don't match each other. So when you run with 6 cylinders for some five minutes (when one fuel pump fails, for example) the TRANS PROGRAM error will flag and switch operation into Limp mode; the Red EML light will illuminate. Before the switch, the V12 can run on 6 cylinders but can go up to, say, 3000 rpm.Patrick C 88 750 149K

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    the transmission warning signal

    is just a preventive measure of the system to go into limpmode to avoid more damages. Usually it is not the trans itself but different things.
    Patrick's comment should also be checked if both fuel pumps are really running and bring full pressure. Check the fuel pump relais, also press with your fingers both fuel hoses in the engine room where they come up at the fire wall if they are both under pressure or not.
    Check on Johan's page about fuel pressure testing, also there is the info about the solving of the problem with the engine oil spilling out. See under VCV/PCV valves http://bmwe32.masscom.net/
    If the VCV valves are not in order, this could have caused that the trottling valves are dirty inside. Check them and clean them inside.

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    EML light does not come on at all, Sorry about the

    the confusion. There are 5 green led to the left of the EML light which comes on solid when inginition is in possition 2, but the next two light on the right does not come on. I see an amber dash in the sixth light and a red half square light in the seventh position which I believe is the EML light.

    So now my limp mode problem takes a new twist. Once the engine is running, the green LED lights go off completely. I also noticed blue smoke coming out of the exhust this afternoon when the engine was running. I am going to check the led light to make sure I don't have a burned light bulb there and take it from there.


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    EML light burnt bulb

    My Red EML light is located middle between the speedometer and the RPM gauge. Shogun has some posts about the EML circuit uses two incandescent bulbs, one acting as the load of the other...I am not quite clear on this one but is in the archive, or Johan's website, or e38.org/e32.

    The EML circuit is one thing to look at, but for now, the behavior of your 750 may or may not indicate Limp mode as in my last post about fuel pump failure. In that case the car is running on 6 but not in Limp mode at the beginning, but in a few minutes switches into Limp mode.Patrick C 88 750 149K

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    Re: Is it possible the EML module is bad?

    Thank you. What is the possibility of the EML module being bad as the independent mechanic suggested? I am going to look for the posts to fix the light bulbs first, but I was just wondering if I should also be looking for a used EML module that fits my 750 as well.

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    EML light does not come on at all????

    Alright, that is nice. Now I think we get closer to it.

    The green lights, red lights and yellow in the CC = check control under the speedo you can forget at the moment, that are service and oil interval lights.
    See owners manual.
    The EML light is between the RPM meter and the speedmeter. EML is written on it.
    So you have to check all wires for continuity.
    I think pin 15 on the EML is connected to the EML light in the dash cluster. Do you get continuity from the dash cluster to X21?
    Nothing from X21 to the EML connector?
    So either a broken cable in engine room, or the cluster itself is the problem.

    I have once written an instruction how to repair that:

    For those cars with EML:
    The EML light should come on when engine is started in ignition position 2 for about 2-3 seconds and then go off. This is a kind of test for the 2 bulbs inside the motherboard of the cluster. One bulb acts as a kind of resistor for the other, to speak in my no-electric expert words.
    People have paid hundreds or thousands of $ to repair shops because they replaced unneccessarily MOTRONICS, EML and other parts of the car, as the car was in limp mode and they could not solve the problem.
    Limp mode, also known as failsafe mode, limits throttle openings etc and runs off a preprogrammed setting, limits rpm and speed as well...
    Vmax after 2 minutes approx.50 kmh in 3rd gear, at max. 1500 RPM, no ability to climp uphill and so on.

    A member of 7er.com has just made a write-up with pics. Of course it is in German, but the pics are most important to understand.
    Main points I just translate in brief into English, I will omit the general info on how to remove the cluster from the dash, and other points known to all of you which are regular visitors on this board.

    Pin 16-17, the only connected soldering points of the "white" plug are to be connected to the "upper contacts" of the 2 EML lights.

    Option: Pin 12 of the "brown" plug to be connected (soldered) with the "lower contacts" of the EML lights.
    As connector he used hot glue.
    Leave cable long enough to assemble the cluster again.

    Notes:

    No guarantee for correct translation. It is your car when you repair it.
    Description is based on a cluster from a 750iL from 05/1989.

    If you are not able to see the pics in the link to the German board, you might have to register first. Easily done, no cost involved, and they have a very good repair page, done and maintained mainly by Erich = shogun ;-)

    Pins location/how to count:

    1 26
    2 25
    3 24
    4 23
    5 22
    6 21
    7 20
    8 19
    9 18
    10 17
    11 16
    12 15
    13 14
    http://www.7-forum.com/forum/showthread.html?t=41084


    http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kabelbrckeemlleuchte1989erfuff.jpg

    http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emlkontakte1oben0la.jpg

    http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emlkontakte1oben3wr.jpg




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    I have posted it above, Patrick- EML light repair

    Pics once more.

    click
    http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kabelbrckeemlleuchte1989erfuff.jpg

    http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?im...te1oben0la.jpg

    http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?im...te1oben3wr.jpg

    For cars with EML:
    The EML light should come on when engine is started in ignition position 2 for about 2-3 seconds and then go off. This is a kind of test for the 2 bulbs inside the motherboard of the cluster. One bulb acts as a kind of resistor for the other, to speak in my no-electric expert words.
    People have paid hundreds or thousands of $ to repair shops because they replaced unneccessarily MOTRONICS, EML and other parts of the car, as the car was in limp mode and they could not solve the problem.
    Limp mode, also known as failsafe mode, limits throttle openings etc and runs off a preprogrammed setting, limits rpm and speed as well...
    Vmax after 2 minutes approx.50 kmh in 3rd gear, at max. 1500 RPM, no ability to climp uphill and so on.

    A member of 7er.com has just made a write-up with pics. Of course it is in German, but the pics are most important to understand.
    Main points I just translate in brief into English, I will omit the general info on how to remove the cluster from the dash, and other points known to all of you which are regular visitors on this board.

    Pin 16-17, the only connected soldering points of the "white" plug are to be connected to the "upper contacts" of the 2 EML lights.

    Option: Pin 12 of the "brown" plug to be connected (soldered) with the "lower contacts" of the EML lights.
    As connector he used hot glue.
    Leave cable long enough to assemble the cluster again.

    Notes:

    No guarantee for correct translation. It is your car when you repair it.
    Description is based on a cluster from a 750iL from 05/1989.

    If you are not able to see the pics in the link to the German board, you might have to register first. Easily done, no cost involved, and they have a very good repair page, done and maintained mainly by Erich = shogun ;-)

    Pins location/how to count:

    1 26
    2 25
    3 24
    4 23
    5 22
    6 21
    7 20
    8 19
    9 18
    10 17
    11 16
    12 15
    13 14

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    Yes | No

    do a search for: eml light ken garchow

    And you will find something like

    he spent more than $ 500 before he fixed it as I explained.

    When he came here he had almost the same questions like you had, but unfortunately had already spent > $ 500 for a new EML and other cost for the shop.
    If a mechanic does not know what is going wrong, they usually says it is the 'black box', an ECU = MOTRONIC, or EML, transmission module and so on.
    According to a good friend who makes his living from repairs of ECU's more than 80% of all the ECU's he get's for repair are actually not defective.

    Of course it is wise to have all these expensive units as spare at home and it is easy to swap a part in and out just to test if that solves the problem.
    So if you have a chance, buy used:
    MOTRONIC unit, EML, LKM-L, CCM, GM, RM, a complete cluster (same year as your car, pay attention to the right color of the backplate), heater sword, heater control panel, heater control module, relais, switches.
    If you are good at soldering electronics, you do not need any of these parts, because most can be repaired by soldering.
    But if you have a chance to get them used for small money, buy them.
    There are plenty of used parts on the market nowadays.

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    Re: I have got the instrument cluster out, but...

    OK, Folks, now I have taken out the instrument cluster and checked all the light bulbs in the vicinity of the EML position, but they all look good visually. However, there 4 light bulbs missing all together inluding the one for Check Engine. Is that why I never saw check engine light come on? Should I try the instrument cluster from my 97 750IL or go for the pin connecttion etc.?

    Please help, Thanks Kazmainiandevil.

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    97 750IL cluster does not fit

    You need one from the same model and it must be from 09/1990 production year or younder = should have a blue backplate. Earlier produced E32 have white or grey backplates. Info here
    http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/299960/299960.html

    "checked all the light bulbs in the vicinity of the EML position"

    do not mix up the normal ilumination light bulbs in the clutser with the EML lights, they are not with a socket where you just can replace the bulbs.
    Disassemble the cluster complete and then you will see more.
    This is the instruction how to replace the caps on a cluster. Not exactly what you have to do now, but it shows you anyway how to disassemble the cluster. And the pics of the cluster in the link are of the oldest clutser with grey backplate, maybe from late 1987 or 1988. Does not matter that much, just for reference how to disassemble
    http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/dash_caps/dash_caps.html

    Missing bulbs: Depending on the country versions there are some bulb holders not used and empty. For example non-US specification cars do not have the possibility to make the socalled stomp test to see the check engine light. So in my Japan specification car the place for the check engine light is empty.
    Is your car US - spec.?
    So do not worry so much about missing bulbs, but if you can tell us what bulbs are missing, that would help us to understand.
    Here is an info about bulbs changing on a car with airbag
    http://www.bimmernut.com/~billr/images/airBagAndBulbs_files/airBagAndBulbs.html

    Easiest to check the cluster would be if you have a spare one. Otherwise you have to measure.
    You can also use a cluster from an E34 with EML (but must be same color backplate) for testing. That is basically the same cluster but the fuel gauge has a different capacity and the speedo a different range. But for a test it would be o.k.
    Otherwise you have to dig out your multimeter and start testing the wires and connections as said before.

    But I personally think that some or one wire is not connected or broken/no contact inside the engine room in the main engine harness, as the diagnosis cannot read anything from the car.
    That means in the area MOTRONICs-EML, X20, X21, diagnosis box-cluster.
    The electronic troubleshooting manual with detailed wiring diagrams or your car and the built year can be found on the web. Or use the Bentley Repair Manual.

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    Keep it coming I am learning from you a lot

    Here is the picture of my cluster. I drew red lines to point to the mising bulbs. I already disassembled it but I have not gotten to the capacitors yet. I will have to do that though as at nights the lights in the cluster go off after a few minutes. I have to turn the lights off and on if I want to see anything there. So I think the cap replacement may help that out.

    You said:
    The electronic troubleshooting manual with detailed wiring diagrams on your car and the built year can be found on the web

    Which web site? I don't have Bently's manual. Can I find a used one? I have a multimeter though and will get busy with checking the wires in the engine room. Did you have to open up the wires bundle to check them out on yours? Do you think swaping the postion of the two Motoronic's may help?


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    Re: Here is the link to the picture


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    Re: Here is a good link to the picture

    Sorry, here is a god link:
    www.gmusedutoparts.com/gm/gmImages/94_750IL_cluster.JPG

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