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  1. #1
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    2+2s or cool looking 4-seaters...

    Ok, so I'm in the market for a 2+2 or a 4-seater. A convertible would be nice but I've resigned myself to settling for coupes because there seem to be so few roomy 2+2 convertibles. And no, Jerry, I'm not gonna sell my Z8. This one will replace my Audi now that I'm living in the South.

    I started hunting around and narrowed my list to the following:

    911 Turbo - Tried and true. Depending on year, vary from 70-130K. My wife loves it. My kids fit in the back. I just think it's a little too...common. I hear they're coming out with a new Turbo Cab. That might be fun but I used to have a '97 Targa and before that a '95 Cab and I loved that Targa's panoramic roof more than the claustrophobic feel of the Cab with the top up.

    Maserati Quattroporte - I really like the design. Can probably pick one up with low miles for about 90K. Just don't know where I'd service it. Closest dealer is 100 miles away.

    M5 - I drove Jerry's. Sick, just sick. What a car!

    650i - Back seat is too small.

    Ferrari 456M GT - I really love the understated look. Can pick up this MSRP 225K car with 10K miles for about 90K. Talk about depreciation. Is that NUTS or what? Same potential service issues as the Maser. Automatic is much cheaper and easier to find than the stick...can I really buy a Ferrari automatic?

    DB9 - Alas JoeA, the backseat is too small for my boys. If it were bigger, it would be a no brainer. I love this car.

    Mercedes - I won't buy one.

    Anybody want to add others to this list? Anybody have opinions on the above? I know how Jerry feels about his M5 but I am really fighting buying another BMW product until they show me that they are going to stand behind mine.







  2. #2
    Pandaman
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    Yes | No

    Re: 2+2s or cool looking 4-seaters...

    I'll sell one of my AMC Pacers. Great back seat and what a view.
    I think you made some great choices.
    Pandaman

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    i always loved the Pacer...

    ...friend of mine had one in High School.

    That and the Gremlin...two of my favorites. Wish I had a 20 car garage because I would put a Pacer in one of them.

    Hell, I wish I had a 3-car garage...

  4. #4
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    New Jaguar XK or XKR...

    ...back seat is bigger than the 911...nowhere near as common as the 911...gorgeous lines...great performance.
    --Alan

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    If you likethe M5

    The obvious choice for a Coupe is the M6. I saw my first in-the-flesh M6 in Greenville, SC.

    It will never be the classic beauty that the Z8 is; however the lines are captivating. It has a tremendous sense of power and grace, and Bangle finally got most of the lines poining in the same direction instead of all sorts of odd angles. I have never seen a car whose design so captures the spirit of the automobile - sleek but dominating and brutal - Bangle does brutal well.

    The only thing it needs is a real transmission (rumored to be comingout this year) instead of that paddle thing that reminds me of a go kart.

  6. #6
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    not a big fan of the paddles either...


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    sort of a DB9 Jr.

    ...and the backseat is too small. Can't fit anyone back there.

  8. #8
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    Turns out my head hits the ceiling in the 456 MGT

    ...but plenty of headroom in the 612 Scaglietti. Now, if only I had someone else's 250K to spend...

  9. #9
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    I wasn't now I AM ;-))

    Just got through driving the M5 & M6 at the Advanced M School at the VIR. Like Jerry, I own both a E60 M5 and a Z8. The 7-speed SMG is a great system, well matched to the high-rev V10 in these cars. There is no way a 6-speed stick (which I love in my Z8) would hold a candle to the performance of the SMG.

    148 MPH in the back straight away... HotDamnInTheCity!

    M6 DID handle better than the M5, particularly in hard braking at the end of the straight-away. M5 got a bit "jumpy" in hard breaking down from 140...

  10. #10
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    some thoughts

    OK Jack, since you asked for them......

    any coupe you get will be a PITA IMHO for kids. However, if you are willing to overlook that then here are my opinions:


    911 Turbo - I am not a P car fan, but dont let that stop you. They are great cars, they just dont do it for me. I would avoid the cabrio Porsches as I dont think they are nearly as stable- just what I hear.

    Maserati Quattroporte - if you dont like paddles, then what the hell are you doing considering this?! The design is not very good because while it is somewhat attractive, after a few miles the sheetmetal gets all dinged up- Ive seen many around manhattan that look "old" fast- the trunk is tiny- the packaging is not good- and the car is underpowered, it should have a V12 not a V8 and it has the wrong tranny, it should have a true automatic. The interior is gorgeous though. But for transporting kids? You can get brand new ones for substantial discounts, so that should tell you something. My advice: AVOID.

    M5 - I drove Jerry's. Sick, just sick. What a car! Yes it is, as Bob mentioned, we just drove them on the track at really high speeds and they are great cars- thank you to BMW for not just making such great cars but also for hosting such a great event! The M6 is more stable at speed, but in daily life, if you need the 4 door form factor, the M5 is very tough to beat. Wont win a beauty contest, sure, but drives like no ones business. My opinion is the M5 is a "commuters Ferrari F430". The whole car requires you to readjust your opinion on a few things like electronic gizmos and the SMG tranny vs. stick- but if you are willing to learn something new, you will find new rewards.

    650i - I guess the small backseat kills the M6 then. Btw, Jack, if 6 rear seat is too small, wouldnt that knock out the 911 as well? They dont have a lot of space either.

    Ferrari 456M GT - a beautiful car, no doubt, but I suspect if you buy into the Ferrari image with this, you will soon want something newer. Funny how Ferrari made a V12 + automatic in this, but not for the 4 door sedan they SHOULD have put it in with the Quattroporte. Go figure. I would avoid this one too for reasons you already stated. A fun 5th or 6th car, but not a good 2nd car IMHO.

    DB9- Beautiful car. but it seems Aston couldnt get the handling right as a number of magazines have all complained and the sales back this up unfortunately.

    XK- I am not at all impressed.

    So what are we down to:
    M5 and Porsche. Choose your poison. :-)

  11. #11
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    one additional thought

    How about a Bentley Conti GT Cab or Flying Spur? They are nice cars!

  12. #12
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    Porsche backseat...

    Believe or not, it's bigger than the DB9's or the 6-series. Both my boys fit back there with plenty of room up front for me. That surprised me.

    My wife loves the Porsches. I'm with you, they're fine but they're no Z8. I drove two yesterday. The Carrera 4 and the Carrera 4S. The non-S seems underpowered. Has no oomph. The 4S has plenty of oomph but the shifting was somewhat jerky and annoying (probably just me). Haven't tried the Turbo. Not sure I care about the extra ponies and I've never been a fan of turbos.

    I was thinking about going back to a Targa. I had a 993 Targa back in '96 - '97 before my oldest was born. I always liked that car although the roof tended to creak a bit.

    I'm told that they solved the creaking by basing the Targa off the coupe on the 996 (instead of the cabrio for the 993). I'm also told that the 997's roof..."will be even better". Although if they fixed the problem in the 996 what's to make better in the 997?

    I love the open feeling of the Targa and it would solve my wife's hair-in-the-wind problem.

    I dunno. I built one on porsche.com and after I was done with my options the friggin' thing cost $115K! What are the chances it will be worth even half of that in 3 years? Slim I bet.

    I should probably just keep my Audi S6 Avant and my Z8 instead of trying to mash them together in some pathetic attempt at creating the perfect car.





  13. #13
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    Porsche backseat...

    Believe or not, it's bigger than the DB9's or the 6-series. Both my boys fit back there with plenty of room up front for me. That surprised me.

    My wife loves the Porsches. I'm with you, they're fine but they're no Z8. I drove two yesterday. The Carrera 4 and the Carrera 4S. The non-S seems underpowered. Has no oomph. The 4S has plenty of oomph but the shifting was somewhat jerky and annoying (probably just me). Haven't tried the Turbo. Not sure I care about the extra ponies and I've never been a fan of turbos.

    I was thinking about going back to a Targa. I had a 993 Targa back in '96 - '97 before my oldest was born. I always liked that car although the roof tended to creak a bit.

    I'm told that they solved the creaking by basing the Targa off the coupe on the 996 (instead of the cabrio for the 993). I'm also told that the 997's roof..."will be even better". Although if they fixed the problem in the 996 what's to make better in the 997?

    I love the open feeling of the Targa and it would solve my wife's hair-in-the-wind problem.

    I dunno. I built one on porsche.com and after I was done with my options the friggin' thing cost $115K! What are the chances it will be worth even half of that in 3 years? Slim I bet.

    I should probably just keep my Audi S6 Avant and my Z8 instead of trying to mash them together in some pathetic attempt at creating the perfect car.





  14. #14
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    Yes | No

    None of us have mentioned the Bentleys




  15. #15
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    Why am I not in to this car?

    I do like the back. The front...not so much.

  16. #16
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    you know me...

    Can you really see me in a Rolls or Bentley in my T-shirt and cargo shorts with my Red Sox cap on? Somehow it works with the Ferrari...but in a Bentley? Not so much.

  17. #17
    ZbobZ
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    Yes | No

    Mercedes?

    Jack, if I might ask, why is Mercedes not an option for you?

  18. #18
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    Re: Mercedes?

    I had a Mercedes once. An S55. I liked it a lot. What I didn't like was the service I got from Mercedes. The wheels stolen off the car while it was in their lot getting serviced while we were away on vacation.

    It's a long story but they handled the situation horribly (both Mercedes NA and the dealership). Hey, I understand, stuff happens. I wasn't so annoyed about the theft of the wheels as I was about the way they treated the situation.

    I vowed never to buy another one.


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    Re:

    Styling wise, yes, but they don't share a chassis.

  20. #20
    Z8Eldred a.k.a. The Mudman
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    To Concurr, lack of service and indifference

    by the mercedes dealership in Austin, steered me to BMW. I want to thank them. Like you they are off my list.

    Hearing your experience and those of friends and associates confirms a general snobby attitude and poor customer service.

    If I buy a product and have problems and cannot get proper service, I take my business elsewhere. I believe most on this poor do the same. If you don't service your customers, someone else will.

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