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  1. #1
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    54 voided 335i Warranties, ECU remapping, MODS

    I have been pretty much on the boat to buying the Stage 0 from Vishnu. After extensive reading on e90forum.com It has been fascinating and very encouraging. Until the nagging warranty issue was brought to light…. I had gone to Sterling BMW and had a discussion with a top mechanic. He hadn't heard anything about the Xede. When I told him, he was seriously puzzled about how the engineers at BMW would NOT find traces of something that boosted the HP 55 and above. This guy says main line techs may not see it, but when a serious warranty issue takes place, the engineers have a totally different laptop that they can see everything, for 6 months or more back. Hard shifts, the exact rpm between shifts day by day, shift, by shift, everything.
    Then I saw this 3 days later ion e90forum.

    “Taken from a BMW dealership employee...

    Quote »
    I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them.
    BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated.
    To date, they have terminated 54 warranties.
    "OMG, I BLEW A TURBO AND BMW IS CHARGING ME $10,000 BECAUSE THEY DENIED MY WARRANTY! Arggg!"
    MORE IMPORTANTLY IS THIS POST: A good rule of thumb is if you are leasing a car...don't mod it. The car doesn't belong to you. If you void the warranty, then you are in breach of your lease contract, which is then terminated. It happened to my friend with a 5.0 mustang who made the motor go Kaboom with a hefty dose of nitrous. He was responsible for the cost of the engine replacement. He had to turn the car in and was responsible for the lease payoff minus the realized value of the car, which was considered to be significantly less than market value." "It's a violation of the lease agreement and I think they force you to buy it at lease end (rather than accept it back)."

    Many of you will repeat what's already been said, “you pay to play, if it worries you, don't do it” etc. But I for one didn't know the extent of the danger of a mod like that, because I've never had a brand new car I did something to (modded). I hope this info was helpful to some. It sure opened my eyeballs. I’m not touching so much as a muffler on this leased 335i. I guess I agree with some posters, if you want an M3 or M5, then buy one in the first place.



    2007 335i Sedan
    2004 King Ranch F250

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    Did anyone seriously think BMW was not watching

    these kinds of activities? Too much to lose and waaaay too much risk for incremental and largely theoretical improvements. About the only "mod" I've consider is Dinan, as it keeps the warranty.

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    Re: Did anyone seriously think BMW was not watching

    I'm very interested in that. Does Dinan provide their own warranty, or just not void BMW's? This mechanic I spoke of (at Sterling) said they tried to get him to be a Dinan rep at the dealer. But weirdly, this mechanic hates cars... He wasn't interested.
    Also, I believe the BMW is reading every one of these posts and is already posting bulletins and updates on Vishnu and ways to catch the offending car owner that has a Xede. Yes, I believe that 1000 percent. If you think they won't spot the signs in about 20 seconds, you're dreaming.
    I was at Dodge one time with my old Viper GTR. A guy in a diesel crew was trying to get a service appointment. The service tech came back after looking at his scanner and told the guy he'd better leave the dealership immediately. The guy had "clocked" his miles back, but Dodge has a secondary computer inside the trans that records miles as well.
    Engineers aren't stupid. If nothing else, they'll see a fast start off the line at a much higher speed and shift patterns than stock allows and know something major was done. Then when they see your highway mileage is 12 or 14mpg, they'll really know something is awry. Weld marks on your exhaust would be also a good clue... 2007 335i Sedan
    2004 King Ranch F250

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    I'd be leary of Dinan also.......

    When Dinan warranties something done to the engine, say for instance, their supercharger. They are warranting the supercharger parts....supercharger, intercooler, belts, etc. If the engine blows up, Dinan will state that their supercharger did not fail, so they will say it's BMW's fault that the engine blew up. BMW will state that the supercharger caused the problem so they won't pay.

    It becomes a finger pointing issue at who will pay for the damage. Ultimately, it will be the owner of the car paying for the new engine. Just don't think that Dinan has a wonderful warranty....they only warranty the parts they install, and nothing more.

    The same would go if Dinan with software boosts the turbos....if the engine blows, they will put the blame on BMW, and BMW would refuse to pay because Dinan altered the software and turbo boost. The owner will ultimately lose.

    The best mod is OEM.

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    Have you ever heard of a Dinan upgrade

    that was installed by an authorized Dinan dealer causing a finger pointing situation such as you're suggesting? Can you point me to an example?

    I just can't see where that would be an issue since BMW and Dinan work together on this program.

    Rusty
    '05 330i ZHP in Imola

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    jim c
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    Dinan and BMW do not work together on any program!

    This is a myth - just call Dinan and ask them. There is no collaboration between Dinan and BMW. Why do you think Dinan has to get mule cars from folks and spend alot of time and $$ trying to reverse engineer the DME programming and other things (just like every other tuner)?

  7. #7
    Scott
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    WTH are you talking about?

    I don't think anybody was saying that Dinan is some sort of BMW performance development company. And I don't see where anyone said anything about there being any collaboration between the two, in the sense you're reaching for anyway. But if Dinan and BMW are as far apart as you seem to be suggesting, then please explain all the BMW dealerships that are authorized Dinan resellers. Many, if not most, BMW dealers will not even install most aftermarket parts. But they sure as hell don't seem to have a problem selling or installing Dinan's. Does that not give you some sort of clue? Scott

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    Jonathan Spira
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    Dinan mods are no diff. - no BMW warranty either


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    True- I was perhaps not totally clear and was try-

    ing to point out that if one feels and irresistable compulsion to muck up their new car, the Dinan is a good choice.

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    But Dinan mods won't void your warranty.

    Dinan's warranty mirrors the manufacturer's warranty for the balance of the original BMW warranty period or 2 years if the car is out of warranty. AFAIK, they're the only aftermarket company that matches BMW's warranty. Not even AA and their (in some people's opinions) superior supercharger can say that.

    Having said that, I really have no use for Dinan products. They may be good, but they're overpriced and I don't really have any more need for speed than is available to me stock.

    Rusty
    '05 330i ZHP in Imola

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    Well, Dinan will say its BMW's fault and BMW will

    say its Dinan's fault and there you are. There are plenty of horror stories about this.

    Dave
    2004 M3 Coupe
    IR/Blk leather
    19"RG4's w 255/35/19 and 285/30/19 Toyo T1R
    Mods: SuperSprint Headers/race cats/xpipe w/o resonator,Borla muffler,Shark Race Injector, AFE intake, Euro Rotors, Eibach Pro Kit, Eibach Sways, 4.10 BMW diffy

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    consider this...

    I think you are already taking a risk by getting a 1st year production car (I know I am). The only plus there is you have warranty to back you up if you run into issues. Piling a new untested (test of time is what I mean) system on top is just plain stupid. I have 2 issues with puting that system in at this point in time a) the system is developed by people that have no prior BMW tuning experience. For example if the unit came from JC, Turner and such I would think about it twice b) the incdrease in power isn't small, with that much increase you are bound to have issues.

    Give it some time, let others be the testers of the system. Give time to figure out is the 335i is reliable as is before kicking it up a notch. In the interim a more sophisiticated and cheaper system is going to surface.

    BMW should absolutely deny warranty claims. In fact that car should be tagged and not covered by warranty even for things not related to the engine.--------------------------------------------------------
    If it ain't got a hofmeister kink, it ain't got room in my garage<br>
    <img src="http://www.s14.net/photopost/data/500/1788sig2.jpg">

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    Even Mitsubishi and Subaru are checking up........

    on their owners. They are currently running the owner's name through Google to see if they show up as running an autocross. If the name shows up, they will void the person's warranty since they state the car cannot be used in any "timed" event....autocrossing is a timed event.

    The way to beat them at their own game is when you sign up for autocrossing, and say you have a 2005 Subaru, tell the autocross people you have a 2004 Subaru. Then you can tell the dealer, it wasn't your car you used for autocrossing.

    Again, the best bet for the 335i is to leave it alone....300 hp is more than enough hp for anyone. 0-60 in 4.8 to 5.0 seconds is fast enough.

    I'm waiting for the time when BMW will not allow the DSC and traction control to ever be turned off completely to save the transmission, clutch, and differential from total destruction and lots of warranty claims with these high hp cars. That time is coming....it's already on the E60 M5 with 6 speed manual. You can't turn off the traction control completely.

  14. #14
    guitarvenue
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    Re: consider this...

    Agreed! I agree with you Noro. Now for some sarcasm....Oh yeah...the tuners do reliabilty testing.....guaranteed 1300 bucks until you walk out the door....there is more money than common sense in the community...my .02


    only time will tell for reliability on boosted turbo pressures...remapping of fuel curves....tabs...trims...etc...


    again...these arguments are old news in other manufacturer forums...

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    you poke it you, you own it...

    once you go down this road you have to be realistic...it is yours...and you will probably be denied warranty coverage...not to mention it would be very uncool to run a car boosted for 3 years, turn it in, and have some poor sap buy it from dealer used.

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    guitarvenue
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    Re: you poke it you, you own it...

    that could happen when the yeast rise...

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    The Aftermarket Dilema

    When a manufacturer places a warranty on their vehicle they must consider providing a fine driving machine while maintaining THEIR cost of stand behind the product . Cost cutting mat even be as subtle as electronically limiting top end speed in order to plave a V rated tire instead of a Z rated . Tweaking a new car is almost like buying a new home and remodeling rather than simply buying a different car or home right from the start .

    If you examine most of the ultra performance aftermarket speed rockets --one might often observe a used out of warranty 25K M3 with about 20K worth of parts which basically make up a 45K car with an emphasis on speed . Otherwise one simply sees the high end sports cars .

    So let's say you decide to be part of a minority of owners who buys a 335 and decides to void your warranty in search of being the first to have bling power in that specific newer car.It will come with positive and negative :

    The positive--
    You get to be part of an elite trend setter with a the most modern version of your personal taste infused into the newest car adding power and exterior styling/ interior comfort/ technology which is contemporary -- all out of your pocket of course .


    The negatives--

    1) Unless you take this to the track it's a high priced speed machine WITHOUT the same refinement as a factory made higher speed better balanced car --like an M3 .

    2) Aside from warranty depreciation one can also face the added depreciation of its used car value . Most used car buyers want a car which a liitle old lady drove 20 miles per hour to bingo once a week .When a used car buyer sees a tweaked out monster machine his first thought usually is that the owner had a heavy foot and that wear and tear along with the non warranty can add up to dollars .

    My opinion -- If you aren't happy with what you have , then perhaps it's just not the vehicle to marry . Just my 02 .


  18. #18
    guitarvenue
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    Re: The Aftermarket Dilema

    exactly...I concur.

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    Re: The Aftermarket Dilema

    True true. If you want an M5, buy one. The Guru speaks and he's right again. One day I'll be into a Carrera R, I'll be grilling you.2007 335i Sedan
    2004 King Ranch F250

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    Re: The Aftermarket Dilema

    "Unless you take this to the track it's a high priced speed machine WITHOUT the same refinement as a factory made higher speed better balanced car --like an M3 . "

    Amen. I know I sound like a broken record when this subject comes up but I still have no idea why people want to mod their car with go fast parts when they're don't have immediate plans to track it. And that's aside the fact (and yes, it's a fact in 99.9% of cases) that the car's capabilities far exceed the drivers abilities.

    So throwing $$$ into the car to make it go faster when it's already faster than the driver can handle properly will never make sense to me. The fact that as you say, these mods generally decrease the value of the car rather than increase I'll never understand.

    Rusty
    '05 330i ZHP in Imola

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