when putting into reverse for the first time

[bern2280]

on the initial start of the day, the gearbox grinds. As if the clutch is not pressed. The transmission fluid was changed over the summer. Any ideas???

[F31Sailor]

I get that too. I don't know if it is because the gear oil is thick or if my clutch is wearing thin.

[TLK]

Low fluid level, gearbox worn, air in clutch hydraulic system.
TLK
'93 325i sedan
'98 M3 sedan

[JKRIT]

or clutch dragging with pressure plate, which may have oil on it. Always shift into reverse directly from a forward gear (with the car stopped, of course), and this won't happen. When a gear is engaged and the car is stopped, the only thing turning in the gearbox is the input shaft, so you can shift to any other gear, including reverse, without grinding.
'97 528i Montreal Blu./Grey
'98 323is Arctic Sil./Blk, SP
'95 M3 Cosmos Blk./Blk

[bern2280]

does it matter if the car is warmed up first?

[JKRIT]

The forward gear synchros will stop the transmission gears from turning, and also stop the clutch disc, if it was dragging along with the pressure plate. A quick shift from the forward gear to reverse will engage reverse without grinding before the gears can be dragged up to engine speed again by the clutch. It makes no difference whether anything is hot or cold.

Because your car seems to have a dragging clutch only when it is cold, you might use a forward gear other than first gear to stop the dragging. First gear synchros take the hardest wear anyway, and there is no need to burden them with this additional cold-start task.

Alternatively, you can start the engine with reverse already engaged, but then you are asking the starter and ring gear to break the clutch disc free from the pressure plate.
'97 528i Montreal Blu./Grey
'98 323is Arctic Sil./Blk, SP
'95 M3 Cosmos Blk./Blk

[bern2280]

[wizman007]

car while the shifter is in the reverse gate? In early spring and late fall I sometimes do that because of the dedent issue with reverse when it is cooler out. It is easier to start it up and reverse right away.

[you might have a problem - TLK]

Hey Wiz,

That entire discussion is based on the assumption that a person's clutch is not fully disengaged while holding the pedal down. This is true to some degree on a lot of cars, but the amount of torque coming through to the transmission is miniscule. Most rough shifting diagnostic procedures involve trying to confirm the presence of too much torque passing through and branching from there.

Unless you have any issues with clutch engagement point, rough shifting, grinding, car moving with clutch pedal down, I don't see anything to be concerned regarding your parking in reverse.

I admit being somewhat skeptical of the warning in the first place though. Even with a slightly grabby clutch, the starter is pretty capable of moving it it you leave it in gear and just hold the clutch pedal down. I mean the starter can rock the car if you leave it in gear with the pedal up. It certainly can spin the clutch disc free from the pressure plate if it is just a little grabby. I mean if it grabbed hard enought to fight the starter, my intuition in that you'd have a lot more problems than a one time cold start grind into reverse.

My car had some kind of clutch issue when I got it. After 7 years, the previous owners had worn the clutch almost down to the rivets and the engagement point and effort was always annoying. It also had a bit more resistance going into gear. There are all kinds of things that can go wrong. The pressure plate springs often seem to get tough as they get older, the clutch disc can wear, the ZF transmission can have problems (all too common we've found out), the grease can be all gone from the spines on which the throw-out bearing slides on, and the clutch hydraulics can have issues. These things can all share the same symptoms and be a little vexing to figure out since most of these parts require dropping the transmission to access.

[JKRIT]

Why not make a habit of starting in neutral? Just because the starter CAN overcome lots of resistance doesn't mean you have to beat on it. That once every 5-7 years when you discover at the least convenient moment that your battery is just about gone, you'd be glad you didn't ask it for that little extra juice to break the clutch disc free from the pressure plate. This is where "habits" like starting in neutral come from.

As for parking in reverse, as opposed to just starting in reverse, I don't like to abuse the centering spring by leaving it in the reverse gate for long times. They do sometimes weaken from this minor "abuse" and then you lose the centering function, at least from that side of the gate.
'97 528i Montreal Blu./Grey
'98 323is Arctic Sil./Blk, SP
'95 M3 Cosmos Blk./Blk

[wizman007]

[bern2280]

[JKRIT]

'97 528i Montreal Blu./Grey
'98 323is Arctic Sil./Blk, SP
'95 M3 Cosmos Blk./Blk