Here it is almost March and one has mentioned.....

[Nautiker]

I've seen Springsteen a few times, including way back when he was the opening act for Chicago at the Spectrum in Philly - I had no idea who he was then, but I was impressed with that show and every other one I've seen. Never seen ZZ Top, but I doubt I'll wade through the craziness of Laconia to do it...<BR><img src=http://members.roadfly.com/nautiker/MTwain.jpg>

[z3bigdaddy]

As to you being less of a [Oops!] in person, you can use me as a character witness if needed.... You really are a sweet guy in a non metro way.... I must say you go out of your way to make sure others around you are happier people, all w/o sacrificing any of your solid principles.... I don't know if I can make the same declaration personally..... <font color=white>
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[cb4]

I remember it like it was yesterday. I was spending weekends at the beach but lived 2 hours away. I didn't have a room for the night and since I had to be at work by 7 the next day the thought of being in bed by midnight had some appeal. I also knew that if I stayed for another round, it would turn into two more, then three then I'd still be at the bar at midnight. I've done the 'flop on someone's couch for a few hours then leave at 4:00am' but that always sounded better than it ever worked out to be.

BTW - That was nice of you to say that. No, you still can't have my Bud-Light.

[cb4]

Besides the 200k invited guests, you are forgetting about the thousands and thousands of bikers that come to town w/o tickets. Daytime tours, rides, demo bikes, tuners, bike shows, stunt shows, etc. Nighttime concerts, block parties, makeshift burnout pits, the bars along water street holding unplanned rooftop wet t-shirt contests. Farms turned into campgrounds with live rock bands. It goes on and on and one person can't possibly see all of it. There's a lot more to do in Milwaukee than Sturgis.

HD does a good job getting HOG and local dealers to host individual parties/concerts (that's where I met BB) because they know having everybody in one spot is dangerous. Consider having lots of parties to choose from going on all at once all over the city and being able to roam freely between them. Each a literal music festival in itself.

Now toss in an additional hundred thousand locals who join in on the partying and while it won't draw the outlaw bikers that Sturgis does (which we're happy about) it's beyond comparison with any other event.

I doubt this party will be as big as the 100th, I'm not sure I could handle it anyway.

[rustyh]

"obviously you've never been" part.

No, haven't been but it's because I never found the motivation. Really never got into HOG rallys. I went to a couple in Texas, one in Arkansas and one in Louisiana. I can be entertained w/o it being completely over the top, but you have to admit HOG rallys are a little on the sedate side.

"Daytime tours, rides, demo bikes, tuners, bike shows, stunt shows, etc"

Those are exactly the types of things that I grew tired of though.

"Nighttime concerts, block parties, makeshift burnout pits, the bars along water street holding unplanned rooftop wet t-shirt contests."

These are things I can appreciate, but that's essentially what was going on at ROT, RotS, etc during the day and night.

"Consider having lots of parties to choose from going on all at once all over the city and being able to roam freely between them. Each a literal music festival in itself. "

Again, perfect example of what ROT, RotS, and other rallys I enjoyed are all about. Mini music festivals that just happened to involve 30k or so bikers and bike lovers.

I'm sure there are a lot more clean things to do in Milwaukee than Sturgis, but Sturgis and those types of rallys aren't about going from one vendor tent to another, seeing the same gloves, vests, doorags, etc over and over. They're about riding on sweet roads to remote places during the day, and listening to good music and drinking lots of beer at night.

The HOG state rallys and the Milwaukee HC thing are just a different kind of rally completely from the ones I enjoyed most. No right, no wrong. Just two different approaches to brining bike types together. But generally I found people who really enjoyed one kind, didn't really care that much for the other. Now that you and I have shared our thoughts on the subject, it really only confirms that we're no different than what I've always felt. Different strokes for different folks. And it's good there's different types of rallys, that way most everybody can find the kind they enjoy.

Rusty
'05 330i ZHP in Imola

[cb4]

You've already decided it was too sedate/clean for you when you've never been. You formed this conclusion without any knowledge.

Now you've added your picture of a row of vendor tents and talk about the great rides, music and beer at Sturgis. Just shows me how little you know about Milwaukee and its beer, the back roads of WI, or the scale of our music entertainment. Milwaukee IS home of the largest music festival in the world and HD taps that resource when throwing their party.

I could go on and on with the inaccurate generalizations you've made but I get the feeling that would be pointless. I'm happy to have you believe this is just another HOG rally or some generic event that you've already seen and bored of. I'm fairly confident that it is actually a bit more than you realize but no skin off my back whatever you want to believe.

[rustyh]

"You've already decided it was too sedate/clean for you when you've never been. You formed this conclusion without any knowledge."

Carl, seriously you need to put the pipe down and think about it for a minute. You seem to always see the fault in others, at least lately, but it seems pretty darn obvious that you're going off way too often lately. Maybe it's that winter hybernation thing you guys talk about, I dunno.

Knowledge can be obtained other ways than first hand. True?

It so happens that I've talked with I don't know how many people over the years who have visited the fair city of Milwaukee, four of them in fact that did the 100th Anniversary thing. I think we even talked about that if you'll think back or do a search. All I know is they weren't impressed. Logistics seemed to be one of the themes they didn't care for, evidently things were spread out all over the city. You speak of that as being intentional because of the horrors of having so many people in one spot. That may be true, but for those coming in from out of town it might be a freekin nightmare, not to mention cut into how much time they want to spend at one event.

Another complaint had to do with some things coming off fairly unorganized. Seems I recall you even saying there were some notable problems due to HD not expecting as many people as turned out. Ok fine, even some weddings don't go as planned. But if it happened, it happened, and just because some people didn't like it doesn't mean they're wrong.

You also make the assumption that I care for Sturgis. Wrong again. I never did Sturgis and the main reason why is I was told, again by others I know that had gone before, was that it too was a little too much of everything, a little too many people at the concerts, a little too many bikes sharing the same roads, a little too expensive for a 6' x 6' plot of land in someone's yard, etc etc etc. I said, if you'd go read it again, I like rally's like ROT (Republic of Texas) and RotS (Roar on the Shore). Quite a bit like Sturgis in the sense that it's more of a type of thing where you see a wide variety of people, not just the bankers, I.T. and accountant types. And that perspective IS based on what I've seen at HOG rally's. I just don't care for row after row of vendor tents (where did you get that I said anything positive about them?....I said just the opposite).

Again, most of what I know of the Milwaukee HD event was based on several people's input, even comments in the chapter newsletter. Sorry, but that counts even if you want to dismiss it. When you know people well enough to know what you have in common and what you don't, it's not being uninformed to base an opinion on what you hear.

And for the record, I never said anything derogatory about Milwaukee. Never been there, wouldn't know. But I imagine if it was good enough for Laverne and Shirley, I'd be Ok with it.

I only commented on the HD event. I'm sure you have some very fine beer up there, and I'm sure you have some very fine roads. We have an incredible music scene here in Ft. Worth/Dallas, and even moreso in Austin, so not many places are going to impress me anymore than I've already been impressed, but we can count that one as a wash if you like.

As far as Milwaukee having the "world's largest music festival", maybe, I don't know. But a quick Google shows about a dozen places claiming the same. My search returned something called Summerfest in Milwaukee, but the site only says it's "one of the largest" in the world although I will note that someone wrote in Wikipedia that it's the largest. I guess it might be, but is it the best or just the biggest? Again, I don't know. But there's a jazz festival in Switzerland that purports to be the largest, there's a gig in Europe that claims to be the largest Christian dance/music festival in the world, the BBC Prom Concert claims to be the largest, and of course, we have South by Southwest (SXSW) where there are always over 1000 bands/artists playing over the 4-5 days. Even if that doesn't measure up to how many play at Summerfest, it's waaay more acts than I'm going to be able to catch.

I think what set you off was misreading what I said and assuming I was taking a shot at Milwaukee. Never even entered my mind. But we clearly like different things in motorcycle rallys, but that's Ok. That's why there are different kinds of rallys, so everybody can leave happy.

Rusty
'05 330i ZHP in Imola

[cb4]

I'm sure the bankers, IT and accountants from TX will trailer their bikes up here for all the rows of vendor tents we have. They will stand out because Milwaukee is by and large a blue collar town.

As for music festivals, well, you read the wiki. One million guests anually, 11 days, 13 stages scattered across 75 acres of lakefront. No, it's certainly not a wash. My stating it as the largest music festival in the world is also a claim certified by guinness world records.

The only complaint I had about the 100th was on the last day that HD made two mistakes. They booked Elton John for the final climax and they ran out of beer. In all fairness, the beer was out of HD control as union vendors were the only ones allowed to sell beer at the final concert.

I simply said "All of Milwaukee turns into a Sturgis ..." and you disagreed clearly based on what you've heard and/or imagined. I'm just pointing that out. I'll agree with you now. The sky did look green today. What was I thinking?

[rustyh]

"I'm sure the bankers, IT and accountants from TX will trailer their bikes up here"

Yep, a lot of the people I knew from the chapter did exactly that (and for the record, most I knew *were* actually bankers, IT types and accountants), which to me meant they really missed the best part, the ride itself. But some of them went that route because of limited time to make the trip which I accept as fair enough reason. But some I knew trailered up there because they're the weekend warrior types that didn't want to chance getting caught under some rain. Not going to lie, I didn't like riding in rain either, but on a trip like that you just have to toughen up and take the good with the bad.

"I simply said "All of Milwaukee turns into a Sturgis ..."

In terms of the number of people, yea I'll agree with that. But I was speaking about the difference in the types of people and the general atmosphere. HD's hometown party is a little more tame than something like Sturgis, which nobody will argue has had a reputation of getting a little out of hand sometimes. And no, it's not a bad thing that Milwaukee's event didn't attract the 1%'er types. As I said, I enjoyed the rallys that were a little more on the edge than HOG rallys, but other than the chance to ride the Black Hills, I never heard or read anything about Sturgis that motivated me to make the ride and just about every person that ever shared their experience about doing Sturgis said it was one of those things they were glad they did once, but that they'd never do it again. Kinda like some people feel about Vegas.

Rusty
'05 330i ZHP in Imola

[cb4]

The wannabe Sturgis (ROT, RotS) rallies are much easier on the lightweights:) backatcha

[Z3BigDaddy @ work]

[cb4]