Wow JTP, all I can do is shake my head.

Rusty · 08-03-2008 07:21 PM

We've had to deal with our own Cowboy ownership and player issues over the years, but if I were a Packer fan right now, I think I'd seriously be considering walking away. This latest I just heard on ESPN is nothing short of jaw dropping. I almost feel like I was a Packer fan myself I'm so ticked/disappointed/whatever you want to call it.

Basically, the way I see it you have a front office and coach that are nothing short of liars and cowards. All of a sudden all these promises about Aaron Rodgers being the starter meant nothing. I think if I were him, I'd be asking for a trade, if for no other reason than I wouldn't want to work for liars and cowards. Yea, IMHO they're cowards because they don't seem to have the balls to stand behind what they've said (and said over and over and ........). Yea, Favre's getting the last laugh here. Sad, really sad.

Sorry to be peeing on your team, but like I said, I almost feel like a fan that's been deceived. I can't think of anything in recent memory (sports wise) that's disappointed me so much. It's not so much that I'm anti-Favre, but if I'd had any respect for the coach, the owner and mgmt it would have just been flushed down the toilet.

I think the only thing that could make me smile about this would be that first home game, to see a stadium full of fans boo Favre when he sets foot on the field. He's gone about all this in a "me me me" kind of way, with total disregard to the team and the fans. And poor Rodgers, the guy works his butt off and basically handed the reins to take over, only to have it all taken back. Even if he does win the starting job (and you have no idea how much I hope he does) this is all a huge black mark that's not gonna be easily removed.

I feel for you guys. It's gotta be a rough ride y'all have been on the last month or so. And again, I wouldn't be so pissed off about this if I didn't have a lot of respect for the organization. I'd just be laughing about what bafoons you have running it. Instead, I feel sick.

Rusty
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**jtp** · 08-03-2008 07:33 PM

We really all just want this to be over, in whatever form we can get there. That's about where it is right now.

We still don't have the details. Perhaps this is all a ruse to drive up trade options? Okay, maybe not. Mike McCarthy will tell us tomorrow what the final plan is. I'm saving my righteous indignation for then.

That being said, I agree, I feel the worst for Aaron Rodgers. But I suppose this is a business, not a popularity contest. If we end up having to trade Rodgers down the road (and I wouldn't blame him for demanding it) we can at least get some value out of that pick.

I do have to say, Favre and the organization have both lost a little luster in all this for me too. Favre moreso than the organization for me, but both are a little worse off in my estimation.

JTP
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kniffin50 · 08-03-2008 07:34 PM

**z3RIFFRAFF** · 08-03-2008 09:22 PM

I'm not a Packer fan but I have a lot of respect for Brett and the team. I had Greg Jennings on my fantasy team last year so I followed the Packers closely and thought Brett had a great season.

It has to be tough on the team to prepare for the season playing musical quarterbacks. But if Brett really wants to play this season, you must let him play because he gives you the best chance of winning. Aaron Rogers looked good in the Dallas game and I'm sure that he is ready, but how do you bench all of that experience to play him?

I'm glad that we don't have our fantasy draft until after Labor Day!
I'd keep playing! I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
z3RIFFRAFF
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Rusty · 08-04-2008 06:51 AM

Before I forget, just wanted to say thanks for understanding that I wasn't trying to take a cheap shot at the organization. As I said, it was like I suddenly recognized how much I admired that organization and like I realized I'm a fan too.

I was actually wondering about the possibility that the powers that be have put together a plan to bring Favre in, let him try to earn the starting position, only to have already made up their minds that Rodgers would get the job. I realize this sounds like some over-the-top conspiracy, but with what they've done already it almost doesn't sound so far fetched. I'm not sure I'd put anything past them now, or trust them. And it would be one way they could maybe close this chapter and move on.

When Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys and so unceremoniously fired Landry (actually, he told a reporter he was going to fire Landry before telling Landry and the reporter was the one that informed coach of the plan), I lost so much respect for Jones that it caused me to walk away from the Cowboys for about 15 years before I could allow myself to start watching them again. I still despise everything Jones stands for (a whole lot of us still do). So I know how it's possible we can let these teams mean so much to us.

I'll cross my fingers for you guys that this mess somehow straightens itself out. I can't help but feel that no matter what happens though there's going to be some residual effect, but from here it almost seems like the only way to go is up. It suks though that the fans (and Rodgers) are being jerked around like they are while this Peyton Place bit works itself out.

Rusty
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**jtp** · 08-04-2008 10:56 AM

I have previously explained my thoughts that Brett painted himself into a corner by waffling back in March. He retired, then said he was reconsidering, so McCarthy and Thompson flew down there to talk with him about it and he decided he was going to stay retired. At that point, the Packers moved on. We instituted a new offense designed around a more mobile QB and with new pass routes that suited Rodgers’ skills instead of Favres’. And we used two draft picks on QBs. At that point, Favre had made his bed. And I don’t like the fact that he seemed to think he was bigger than the team.

That being said, I always wanted him to come back for one more year so he could have his send-off year. I was quite shocked that he retired, to be honest.

The big problem with letting him compete for the starting job again was that it would destroy Rodgers and create a QB controversy. Well, guess what, Brett’s maneuverings already did that whether he was back in Green Bay or he was sitting on a couch in Mississippi. So, with the damage done, I guess I’m happier to have him back on the team and playing for the starting job than I am having him anywhere else, especially playing for a division rival.

We may have just killed any future Aaron Rodgers had with the Packers. His contract is up in 2009 and I would not be surprised if he refused to resign with GB. Maybe we can get some trade value out of him. But otherwise, he is essentially a wasted draft pick. I guess you can’t look at it like that, though. I mean, if Favre had gone down with significant injury, Rodgers WAS an insurance policy. We just may never get to have him fulfill his role as the heir apparent. If that is the case, Brohm better pan out!

When all is said and done, I wanted another year with Brett as our guy, and it looks like I may get that. Nothing final has been announced by the team yet, but rumor has it that they will let him compete for the starting job. And while I will argue with anyone who blindly says Brett has earned the right to be the starter for as long as he wants the job, it is hard to argue with the fact that he has earned the right to at least COMPETE for the starting job. Brett the golden boy has lost a little luster in my eyes, though.

Finally, it ticks me off because I have tickets to opening night when they were going to retire his jersey. I probably would not have sold those tickets, but I got them for face value ($55 a piece) and could have sold them for somewhere near $500 a piece!

JTP
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**z3bigdaddy** · 08-04-2008 12:56 PM

Cheers or jeers from you opening night? Gotta go shopping... I need to pick up my Bronco jersey for the August 22nd 7:00 PM MDT kickoff at your house.....
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**jtp** · 08-04-2008 01:37 PM

I do not boo the Packers. I may be upset with them. I may holler my words of advice to them. But a true fan does NOT boo their team.

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**z3bigdaddy** · 08-04-2008 02:10 PM

I'm always yelling helpful information at the number 24 bunch but I don't think it gets thru the TV.... It is pretty shocking when fans boo their own team... I had a few close encounters, with other "fans", when the Ducks were doing the dual QB thing... Drew was the voice of reason and made me shut up before it hit critical mass. Why would you basically help support the apposing team while demoralizing your own team...
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**rustyh** · 08-04-2008 03:01 PM

"The big problem with letting him compete for the starting job again was that it would destroy Rodgers and create a QB controversy. Well, guess what, Brett’s maneuverings already did that whether he was back in Green Bay or he was sitting on a couch in Mississippi."

If Favre had stayed in Mississippi, how could that have destroyed Rodgers and created a controversy?

"So, with the damage done, I guess I’m happier to have him back on the team and playing for the starting job than I am having him anywhere else, especially playing for a division rival."

I can understand not wanting him to go to a rival I guess, but if I were a *real* Packer fan with the same mindset I have now I wouldn't want him on my team either.

I dunno, maybe this is one of those things where I can't walk in your shoes so I can't see it the way you see it. But from my Packer-fan-wannabe POV, Favre has destroyed any respect I ever had for the guy. He's selfish, he's a prima donna, he only cares about Brett, and he's not done a thing in all this to prove to me he has even one ounce of "team player" in his veins. Regardless of his past, I would not want the guy on my team in any way, shape or form.

Basically, I have no respect for him whatsoever anymore. I've never seen anybody I don't think that did a better job of demonstrating what the "me me me" attitude is all about.

And you know what else? Not that I'm wishing you guys a bad year, but I can just see it now......they're a .500 team halfway thru the season and Favre decides to "re-retire" right in the middle of the season. At this point, I wouldn't put it past him.

Rusty
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**jtp** · 08-04-2008 03:58 PM

How could Favre have stayed in Mississippi but still destroyed Rodgers by creating a controversy? Easy.

Favre threw his name back in the mix. As soon as he did that, there were people (fans and Packer players alike) that wanted Favre back at all costs. Now let's say Favre is forced to stay in MS against his will. AS SOON as Rodgers starts to struggle (and let's face it, any QB, much less a QB starting for the first time in his pro career is going to have SOME struggles) there would be second guessing and calling for Favre. Fans would start jumping off the Rodgers bandwagon. Fellow players would start to mumble in the lockerroom that management led them to this by screwing up the Favre situation. It would have turned ugly. No QB, much less a new QB, can survive when every single incompletion, interception, heck every DECISION, is followed up with thoughts of how Favre might have done it better.

No, as soon as Favre threw himself back in the mix, Rodgers was cooked either way. For his purpose, the only GOOD way this can end is if he goes into camp and actually beats Favre on the merits. Part of me almost hopes that happens!

JTP
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**rustyh** · 08-04-2008 04:56 PM

Yea, I think that observation is probably spot on. As soon as Favre said he was rethinking retirement, I'm sure things immediately changed for lots of people involved. Fans and players, and of the latter especially Rodgers.

I really don't want to hate on Favre, but this is still leaving a real bad taste in my mouth. I guess I can only hope that Rodgers is handling this better than I am. :) But yea, there's a huge part of me that hopes he really shines and earns the starting job. Favre could still have his going away party by holding on extra points and field goals. In fact, he's almost be like an extra weapon out there in that capacity because defenses could never sit back and assume it's going to be a kick. He could add a whole new diminsion to the kicking game. And that role would also allow him to reach out to the fans in the stands and sign a few autographs. :)

I can't believe our first preseason game is just Saturday after next. This may be a fun year to be a Cowboy fan again.

Rusty
'05 330i ZHP in Imola

**jtp** · 08-04-2008 05:29 PM

Right now, this is all leaving a bad taste in Packers fans’ mouths. But 7 years from now when Favre is being inducted as a first-ballot guy, the hard feelings will be forgotten and it will all be rosy again. People still think of Joe Montana as a 49er, not a Chief. People have forgotten that Jerry Rice made a fool of himself trying to latch onto the Broncos before finally calling it quits. People will forget that Brett Favre pulled our intestines through our a$$es for a couple months in the summer of ’08.

JTP
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**jtp** · 08-04-2008 06:04 PM

Is it effective? Depends on what effect you are looking for. If you are looking to change the team's behavior, then no, it's not helpful. If you are looking to blow off a little steam and bring your blood pressure back down, I find it marvelously effective! ;o)

Your Drew story reminds me of opening day a couple years ago. Vikings at Packers. There was this whole group of Viking fans sitting about 10 rows in front of us. They all had jerseys on that read "Battlewagon" where the player name would normally be. They were pretty obnoxious. At some point someone shouted down to them to sit down. One of the younger guys in the group, a real muscle-head, turned around, flexed his muscles, and told the guy "come down here and say that to me." Finally, I had had enough. I stood up and said "Hey, jacka$$, in case you didn't notice, he's here with about 60,000 of his closest friends, so why don't you turn around, sit down, and shut the f^ck up. He glanced around, realized he was perhaps just a bit outnumbered, and and sat down.

In another incident, the halftime show was the local Indian tribe (Oneidas) doing a tribal dance tribute to veterans. This drunk guy a couple rows behind me kept shouting out "where are the white men's casinos?" and other ridiculous crap. Again, I finally had enough. I turned around, reminded him that the white man's casinos were in a little town called Las Vegas, and told him that this was a tribute to veterans, so "shut the f^ck up and enjoy the show." I was a little worried that I might have been out of line until three veterans (one looked like he might have been WWII, the other two were Vietnam-era looking)came up to me before the end of the third quarter and thanked me for speaking up on their behalf.

I don't mind people being fans. I don't mind people being loud fans. But when people become in-your-face jerks, I have a problem with that. I guess I need to have Drew around to keep my from opening my big mouth! ;o)

The whole concept of booing your own team is entirely foreign to me on many levels.

JTP
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Rusty · 08-04-2008 07:20 PM

"People will forget that Brett Favre pulled our intestines through our a$$es for a couple months in the summer of ’08."

Holy ............lol.

Very eloquently stated there counsel. :-)

Rusty
'05 330i ZHP in Imola

**jtp** · 08-05-2008 10:20 PM

Brett Favre is a punk.

Yes, you heard me.

All along, he kept saying "just let me come back and play." He even asked repeatedly for a chance to compete for the starting job against Aaron Rodgers. He could say those things because, at least publicly, the Packers were saying that they wouldn't allow that, so there was no danger in Favre's mind that they might actually take him up on the offer.

Now they have. They told him to come back. They said there would be a QB competition. Just what Favre wanted, right? Well, apparently not quite. Because now, after getting what he said he wanted, he suddenly changed course. Now, Favre says he can't play for the Packers (even though he originally said that was ALL he wanted, because his feelings have been hurt. In his words, "the problem is that there's been a lot of damage done and I can't forget it." YOU BIG BABY!

So you tried to play the Packers. But then, when they called your bluff, your true intentions come to light. Sorry, Brett, but 1) you are not bigger than the team and 2) this most recent ploy really makes you look like a childish wuss. Never thought I was think or say that, but that's where your actions have driven this story. Sad.

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**z3bigdaddy** · 08-06-2008 01:31 AM

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Rusty · 08-06-2008 06:40 AM

I have to admit, when I heard the latest news in the soap opera yesterday I think even I was dumbfounded. I mean, I haven't had a nice thing to say about Favre at all lately, but even I wasn't expecting this. It wasn't even one of the possibilities I suggested, and a couple of of them I felt were pretty far out there.

The guy just seems to be doing everything he can to alienate himself from more and more fans and teammates, losing the sympathetic vote and tarnishing the memories every time he opens his mouth. He's slowly erasing all the good things and making himself look like a selfish fool.

But I'm sure you'd agree, the greatest harm he's doing is in the form of the distraction he's serving up at possibly the worst possible time, while the team's trying to focus and get prepared for the season. I have no idea how they, particularly the offense, can be in anything other than a complete state of confusion right now.

I realize a lot of people were still backing Favre even after everything that's happened, but I'm thinking this morning a few more people are going to wake up and wonder if he may have taken one too many hits to the head. I mean, this guy isn't thinking straight, assuming he's thinking at all.

I guess from here all we can do is wait for the latest installment and see where things go from here.

Rusty
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**AR67Duetto** · 08-06-2008 11:34 AM

Have you noticed the possible sub-theme in this ongoing saga? 
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~bmv

**AR67Duetto** · 08-06-2008 01:24 PM

<LI>As a lifelong fan of the Chicago Bears (pronounced "Da Bearz"), I am deeply saddened that Brett Favre most likely will not play again for the Green Bay Packers.

Throughout that storied rivalry, there have been numerous examples of what's good for one team is bad for the other, and vice-versa.

It's been my observation that the #1 objective instilled in all new Bear coaches & players is, "Beat Green Bay"...Everyone except Rex Grossman that is; evidently, he didn't get the memo. I assume the reciprocal is true for the Packers.

Everyone knows that the packers were 13-3 in 2007; hosted the NFC title game; and, Favre got a Pro Bowl selection. A very good year.

Less known, however, is that 2 of those 3 regular season losses were to Da Bearz!

Wk5, 27-20
Brian Griese (15-25, 214), 2TD 1INT
Favre (29-40, 322 [led NFL]), 1TD 2INT

Wk16, 35-7
Kyle Orton (9-15, 104) 1TD 0INT
Favre (17-32, 153) 0TD 2INT, QB rating = 40.2

40.2! Favre didn't get swept by Rex Grossman; he got swept by Grossman's backups!! One of the very few brightspots for Da Bearz in '07.

The last NFC North QB to take his team to the Super Bowl is ________? ;-)

Therefore, IMO, the Packers went 13-3 despite Favre, not because of him. His Pro Bowl nod was a 'lifetime achievement award' from those who didn't capture the disingenuousness of his retirement talk. Again, IMO.

Some of those currently chanting, "We want Brett!", are Bearz fans, I suspect.

<LI> Is Lambeau Field big enough for both Brett Favre AND his ego?

Here's what I don't understand. Just where exactly did he think the drama he's been giving the Packers would take him?

There's always been something genuinely odd about him. It's ego-related. That same oddness, if you will, has put him on the fast track to the HOF; but, we've been seeing a dark side

He's been jerking the Packers around for several years now. What precisely was the initial aim of this orchestrated 'Deep South' scam? He's gotten EVERYTHING, including a fat contract. Yet, there's something more.

I burst out laughing at the video clips of him telling enabler Greta van Susteren, of FOX News (& Packer shareholder), that he "worked hard" to bring Randy Moss to Green Bay. Well, his ego needs to answer this simple question: Why would any superstar WR want to leave TOM BRADY to join him?! To watch him increase his career interceptions stats???...WRs are typically not fond of downfield tackling. Besides, the Packers have already put together a fine group of receivers; killers in the YAC dept. Makes no sense.

Of course his 'down home' spin machine includes his wife, Deanna. What does she want? As we know, his 2007 campaign was all about promoting her book tour - granting her prime access to broadcast booths during games. Tho, she's very attractive in pink, I must admit.

Are they maneuvering for their own Reality TV show??? A movie deal???

<LI>Say! Wasn't I kinda close here, back in April?:

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums...8900208-1.html 
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~bmv

Thread: Wow JTP, all I can do is shake my head.
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