yeah (Krause)... let's legalize marijuana

[Donkey]

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[PeterBivo]

Pot is so bad, drunks are FAR more dangerous. Usually, a stoner is in the left lane going 30mph w/the flashers going, whereas a drunk is likely doing 80mph+ weaving in & out of traffic. Ask your local cops, they'll tell you the stoners are safer on the road. Sad but true.

[Donkey]

NO reasonable cop is going to tell you either one is "better" than the other: they both impair motor skills.

I took my daughter thru a driving course sponsored by CHP last year: the speaker was the lead investigator for all fatal accidents in SD county - it was his (vastly experienced) opinion that not only is pot a gateway drug, it is more powerful than just a decade ago, and results in longer, more intense highs.

I have no idea what your statement "Usually, a stoner is in the left lane going 30mph w/the flashers going, whereas a drunk is likely doing 80mph+ weaving in & out of traffic. Ask your local cops, they'll tell you the stoners are safer on the road" is based on... do you?

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[@ Oz530iTAS]

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[PeterBivo]

skills but in VASTLY different ways. You've never smoked so you are out of the loop as far as the effects of the drug except for what you read. I smoked for many years & know how different alcohol & marijuana are, along with millions of others. U making a blanket statement that they are "the same" is the epitome of stupid since u do not know the effects of both firsthand. A good friend of mine worked in the Mounted Unit for a County Police Department on LI years ago and patrolled concerts, gatherings, etc. They used to be told to leave the kids alone who were smoking pot. The kids who were drinking, they had to be aggressive & take away their alcohol as the drinkers were most likely to destroy the venue at the end of the night. The kids who were smoking, they'd go to 7-11 & get a box of Twinkies or Burger King and grab a couple of Whoppers. U don't seem to realize that pot is illegal because of old, gray-haired white men back in the 1930's & 40's made it illegal to protect the liquor industry. Pot is NOT harmful to the human body or mind. Pot does NOT pose a threat to the general public. Pot is very much a danger to the oil companies, alcohol, tobacco industries and a large number of chemical corporations. Lot's of folks would not consume alcohol if pot were legal. Various big businesses, with plenty of dollars and influence, have suppressed the truth over the years. The truth is if marijuana was utilized for its vast array of commercial products, it would create an industrial atomic bomb! Folks have not been educated on the product potential of pot. The super rich have conspired to spread misinformation about an extremely versatile plant that, if used properly, would ruin their companies. Hard to believe that intelligent folks cannot comprehend these facts.

[@ Oz530iTAS]

of this.







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[Donkey]

<i>"Pot is NOT harmful to the human body or mind. Pot does NOT pose a threat to the general public."</i>

Dude, you're either a) high right now, b) the victim of too many lost brain cells from getting high for too many years, or c) a complete idiot - and I mean as in seriously, a complete idiot.

Educate yourself with some actual scientific data. Until then, you're just another used-up stoner trying to defend weed with ridiculous, disjointed logic.<br />
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[Dave S.]

27 years on a State Police force as a sworn officer and during those years, responded to countless crashes involving drunk drivers, many of which were fatal crashes. I also had to fight and wrestle with numerous drunks over the years that didn't want to be arrested. One thing I have never done though, is handled or even heard of a serious crash involving a motorist who was high on pot alone. Sure, there were a few drunks who had smoked while they were drinking, but from my experience the ones who smoke spot and drive are nowhere near as dangerous as the typical drunks. I also believe that marijuana should be legalized. It has some anti-cancer properties that have been discovered recently as well. Lastly, I have never heard of a user dying after ingesting pot, but there are countless cases of fatal alcohol deaths each year. Way too much money is being wasted arresting and prosecuting non-violent victimless crimes such as pot use. I could care less if someone smokes in the privacy of their home and I do not condone driving while under the influence of pot. But the anti-pot propaganda is getting out of hand. It started with a guy named Harry Anslinger.

Harry Abslinger

marijuana anti-cancer properties

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[Dave S.]

for sure, but my guess is that the driver was reckless and had his head up his arse at the time.

"ANSA said the driver was trying to pass another car when he hit the group."

Horrific crashes happen every day. Sometimes it's due to an intoxicant, and other times due to reckless driving, texting, eating, cell phone use, etc. Whatever the reason, my prayers go out to the families of the victims.

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[@ Oz530iTAS]

found out. Worth the read in its entirety if you have the time.

Drug Policy of the Netherlands







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[Dave S.]

three days back in the mid 70's. Walking in a group on the sidewalks we were constantly badgered by the hypes trying to sell us "skag" and all sorts of other drugs. It seems like they have cleaned up their act over the years but still have problems.

FTA: "Most policymakers in the Netherlands believe that if a problem has proved to be unsolvable, it is better to try controlling it and reducing harm instead of continuing to enforce laws with mixed results."

I have to agree with the above. The U.S. "War on Drugs" has been going on for close to 40 years with no significant results. It's time to stop wasting tax payer dollars on something that cannot be won. Instead, as far as the soft drugs go, legalize it, regulate it and tax it.

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[PeterBivo]

too many times:) College kids drink themselves to death every week but nobody decries alcohol sales? Stop listening to the mainstream media & educate yourselves a bit more;)
:))

[DDB]

A single case of an illegal drug POTENTIALLY playing a role in a car accident in another country is hardly much of an argument against the legalization of marijuana here. I'm guessing that if marijuana were legal here, then driving under the influence of marijuana would still be illegal, right?

I mean, jeez, lots of things that are already illegal here still happen regularly and lead to vehicular fatalities - driving drunk, texting while driving, speeding, reckless driving, etc.

I consider it a point of pride that I've never experimented with any illegal substances - the closest I've come to that was popping a legally-prescribed hydrocodone pill and chasing it with two fingers of bourbon. Still, I see it as hugely inefficient that marijuana is illegal, and I'm not convinced that legalizing it would broaden whatever problems are already associated with it. I also say this as somebody whose brother is addicted to marijuana, to the detriment of many areas of his life. Whether it's legal or not, he's the one who needs to clean himself up - the law sure as hell isn't making a difference in the choices he makes.

- DDB

[Donkey]

by legalizing marijuana - is it merely the one of letting stoners get stoned more easily? I think the concept of "what you do behind closed doors is your business" is fine in theory: what about the effects being stoned regularly have on your children - are you really ok with that?

You draw a distinction between "soft" and "hard" drugs: do you believe that legalizing the soft ones will not cause a shift in usage of the hard ones? How many accidents did you process during your career that involved cocaine or heroin? Not nearly as many as alchohol, I'm guessing. So by your logic, we should legalize those drugs as well?

Since - in your opinion - drivers stoned on marijuana are so much less dangerous than drunks, are you ok with letting your family members be driven home by one? Or do you think that legalizing pot won't have any affect on the incidence of stoned drivers? Would you simply (try to) keep your kids out of such a car, and to hell with everyone else on the road put at risk by such a driver?

Frankly, your attitude toward impaired drivers is more than a bit surprising: I think it would be interesting for you to contact Brian Pennings at CHP in El Cajon and get his assessment of the situation.

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[PeterBivo]

Pot use leads to use of harder drugs????.......
This is one of the more persistent myths. A real world example of what happens when marijuana is readily available can be found in Holland. The Dutch partially legalized marijuana in the 1970s. Since then, hard drug use-heroin and cocaine-have DECLINED substantially. If marijuana really were a gateway drug, one would have expected use of hard drugs to have gone up, not down. This apparent "negative gateway" effect has also been observed in the United States. Studies done in the early 1970s showed a negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. A 1993 Rand Corporation study that compared drug use in states that had decriminalized marijuana versus those that had not, found that where marijuana was more available-the states that had decriminalized-hard drug abuse as measured by emergency room episodes decreased. In short, what science and actual experience tell us is that marijuana tends to substitute for the much more dangerous hard drugs like alcohol, cocaine, and heroin.

[Donkey]

the post (as usual) is meant to provoke thought: not end the argument.

Regarding your brother, your cavalier attitude surprises me: I had hoped that your black-and-white view of the world didn't extend to your family. I have some experience there as well: I watched my sister marry a stoner at a very young age, and subsequently blow nearly ten years of her life with him. Our family finally had enough and intervened: she hasn't been high since (more than twenty-five years) while her ex-husband is currently serving time for his fifth DUI.

You acknowledge that pot is a) illegal and b) your bother's use of it is detrimental to his life. Have you ever sat him down and told him he's phocking himself up? Or is he too far gone (acknowledging as others here have said that "pot has no long-lasting effects on the human brain")?
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[Donkey]

Are you now claiming that pot is not a gateway drug? <br />
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[DDB]

Yes, I've spoken to my brother. He has no motivation to quit because things are otherwise going well. Good job, nice house, financially responsible, decent group of friends, doesn't drive under the influence. His lifestyle basically prevents him from getting into a meaningful romantic relationship with anybody, but he's 27 so he doesn't care. He has stopped cold turkey a few times (once for six months or so), but he truly noticed no improvement in his life so it was easy to fall back to his preferred habit. I think there are some other problems, too, like lack of motivation, inability to perform at his potential (mostly job-related, I guess).

My guess is that this will be his life, and he'll just stay single. Nothing really wrong with that, IMO. There are people who use marijuana regularly and frequently and live otherwise normal lives. WTF do I care if somebody chooses to live this way? My brother certainly is hurting anybody other than himself with his actions.

- DDB

[PeterBivo]

Just like beer is a "gateway" beverage.

[Donkey]

What would happen if his boss were to discover your brother's drug use? Yes, everything in his life is "going well" for now, but I wonder what would happen if he were to lose his job?

And is he and his family (you, mom, dad, etc.) really so convinced that there are no lasting and deleterious effects from regular pot use that such a short-term view of his life is acceptable?
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