+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 6 of 6
  1. #1
    wally
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: wally's Avatar


    Yes | No

    gapless or standard rings

    I am doing a stage 2 rebuild and need to get good answers on gapless or standard piston rings? What brand is best?


  2. #2
    Richards 02 parts
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: Richards 02 parts's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Re: gapless or standard rings

    If you mean that the rings are the same but the new ones are gapless LOOK OUT !
    If the machine runs hotter they will "eat "your cilinders .
    Some aftermarket stuff you make the gap yourself .
    Richard

  3. #3
    XBeteNoirX
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: XBeteNoirX's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Re: gapless or standard rings

    All serious race engines (F1, CART, NASCAR) use standard gap rings.
    All serious engine manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, Porsche) use standard gap rings.
    All serious piston manufacturers (MAHLE, Kolbenschmidt, Cosworth) use standard gap rings.

    The only serious question is: proper ring end gap, ring material, cross section design and ring face coatings.


  4. #4
    02er
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 02er's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Re: gapless or standard rings

    Many hi performance builders will use gapless rings such as Total Seal.http://www.totalseal.com
    For the older bmws such as the 02, I found many traditional bmw independents don't prefer the OEM rings but will recommend Deves or Hastings standard gap rings with the OEM cast pistons. Total Seal gapless rings are becoming very popular. They seem to bring good results but some considerations are warranted. First, the cylinder walls must be prepared according to their instructions (It is now normal that many people do not read instructions). It seems to be a rougher specified cylinder finish and the rings are installed dry without oil. This is very very important. Second, the rings take longer to seat and if the car is jetted rich, there is a very high probability they will not seat at all. Third, they do work very well once the rings are seated. So well that increased manifold vacuum and decreased crankcase pressures may lead to excessive PCV flow. A PCV line plug with .062" hole will fix that if needed. In the end, The theory and measured leakdown results of Gapless ring designs are sound and proven to work. The claimed benefits are low blowby (less leakdown), more horsepower, improved fuel economy, cooler and cleaner oil, and longer engine life. Some of which may be subjective or hard to prove. Many people including myself have had good results using Total Seal rings. Also, others have had bad experiences mostly because they never bothered to read the manufacturer's installation sheet and talk to people who use the product routinely. In the end, gapless and gapped piston rings will do a good job providing all manufacturer piston/ring measurements are correctly measured and installation procedures are followed.

  5. #5
    milton
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: milton's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Used Total Seals, Great results

    The rings in my now departed (not dead, but living in a different '02)tii motor were of the Total Seal variety.

    Asked lots of folk before committing - got no negative feedback regarding Total Seal rings. And, I'll look at them again when it comes time to do the 2.5l Evo III spec rebuild on the S14 (read: after I kill the perfectly functioning 2.3l factory stock S14 I'm punishing now - see yah in 70 to 100k more miles).

    Milton

    : Many hi performance builders will use gapless rings such as Total Seal.http://www.totalseal.com
    : For the older bmws such as the 02, I found many traditional bmw independents don't prefer the OEM rings but will recommend Deves or Hastings standard gap rings with the OEM cast pistons. Total Seal gapless rings are becoming very popular. They seem to bring good results but some considerations are warranted. First, the cylinder walls must be prepared according to their instructions (It is now normal that many people do not read instructions). It seems to be a rougher specified cylinder finish and the rings are installed dry without oil. This is very very important. Second, the rings take longer to seat and if the car is jetted rich, there is a very high probability they will not seat at all. Third, they do work very well once the rings are seated. So well that increased manifold vacuum and decreased crankcase pressures may lead to excessive PCV flow. A PCV line plug with .062" hole will fix that if needed. In the end, The theory and measured leakdown results of Gapless ring designs are sound and proven to work. The claimed benefits are low blowby (less leakdown), more horsepower, improved fuel economy, cooler and cleaner oil, and longer engine life. Some of which may be subjective or hard to prove. Many people including myself have had good results using Total Seal rings. Also, others have had bad experiences mostly because they never bothered to read the manufacturer's installation sheet and talk to people who use the product routinely. In the end, gapless and gapped piston rings will do a good job providing all manufacturer piston/ring measurements are correctly measured and installation procedures are followed.


  6. #6
    XBeteNoirX
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: XBeteNoirX's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Re: gapless or standard rings

    I forgot to mention the fact that MAHLE tried gapless piston rings way back in 1926. Several examples of different types of gapless rings are on display in the piston museum of the MAHLE factory in Stuttgart.

    After exhaustive testing, they abandoned the idea as having no merit whatsoever. That may explain why no OEM or top level race engine builder uses them today.

    In my opinion (no facts to back this up), there may be some value to a gapless ring due to the very thin cross section. The thin ring is more flexible and is therefore more able to conform to a cylinder which has not been properly bored and is not round. The bad news is that a very thin piston ring produces very high contact pressure against the cylinder wall, which is unable to ride on a film of oil, and which then increases cylinder and ring wear.
    Repeat; nobody of any consequence uses gapless rings.


+ Reply to Thread


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. 540 standard seats same as 530 standard???????????
    By jonbirk in forum BMW 5 Series Forum (E39)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-29-2003, 11:35 PM
  2. Total Seal Gapless Piston Rings
    By Roddy 325iC in forum BMW 3 Series Forum (E30)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-24-2002, 03:33 PM
  3. Engine Rebuild - Total Seal Gapless Rings
    By Roddy 325iC in forum BMW 3 Series Forum (E30)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-21-2002, 01:42 PM
  4. Gapless rings?? any good?
    By Colin in forum BMW 2002 Forum (E10)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-25-2001, 02:02 PM
  5. Chrome rings to close the seat-belt rings?
    By WannaM in forum BMW Z3 Roadster Forum & M Roadster Forum (E36, E37)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-02-2001, 02:07 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
1e2 Forum