I sense a lack of respect for the French.

[Cepages]

Now, what can I do to help resolve this lack of mutual respect.

[dave.nichols]

Not much unless you can change the attitude of the French people. The perception (and most likely the reality) is that there is a definite, strong and pervasive anti-American sentiment in French society.

As you're learning, it doesn't take much antagonism to start a battle of words here amoung a group with a common interest, imagine how delicate the situation is in the general American public.

Even those of us who disagreed with the war know how deeply we're resented in France and how little they appreciate all the Americans have done for them in the past. You should understand the perception here is one of French arrogance and condescension.

In short, don't try to tease Americans, some are easily offended and will respond quickly and harshly. ANYTHING you say will be taken as bashing by some.<br>Dave Nichols
1980 528i track car with M30b 3.5l engine
1991 535i, factory five speed, daily driver with 244k miles
1997 740il purple on purple, wife's car
1997 Chevy Silverado (hey, you have to pull the trailer with something!)

[:) evil]

<br><img src=http://mail.roadfly.org/paweeky/US_Flag_Waving.gif> GOD BLESS AMERICA , FUUCK FRANCE :)P eter Debadged 01 Dinan 530 , GMC Sierra, Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa , Midnight Express 39 Superboat Fishing Machine ,Converted Citroen into redneck BBQ grill ,Juan Pablo Montoyas tricycle ,The original"Big Foot" and an old Space Shuttle.

[:) evil]

<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/paweeky/france.gif">
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/paweeky/francesucks.gif">
<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/paweeky/francesucks1.gif"><br><img src=http://mail.roadfly.org/paweeky/US_Flag_Waving.gif> GOD BLESS AMERICA , FUUCK FRANCE :)P eter Debadged 01 Dinan 530 , GMC Sierra, Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa , Midnight Express 39 Superboat Fishing Machine ,Converted Citroen into redneck BBQ grill ,Juan Pablo Montoyas tricycle ,The original"Big Foot" and an old Space Shuttle.

[SLM]

I wonder if you realize you're critcizing the French the same way they criticize the US. Interesting how hard it is for many Americans to see past they're own borders.

You say arrogance and condescension. Do you realize who most of the world applies these words to?


SLM

[Cepages]

"don't try to tease Americans" in the last sentence. I am (I thought) obviously joking / teasing and some people don't understand or can't take a joke. We all need to lighten up...

[Cepages]

[jre540i]

~LMFAO~


<br>JRE<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/spedhere/stealth.gif" height=50 width=50>2000/540i6<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/spedhere/stealth.gif" height=50 width=50>

[mb90535im]

Hear is a funny one I heard at work the other day (a thinking man's joke):

Two Iraqi's decide to flee the war so they move their families to America. Upon arrival they decide to have a contest to see which family can become the most "American". Time passes and they meet up again. The first guy says, "My children play little league baseball and soccer, my wife is president of the PTA at school, and every Friday I buy a case of beer and watch football and NASCAR on the television." The second guy replies, "[Oops!] you towel-head."

[dave.nichols]

Actually I said the perception was one of arrogance and condecendsion, and yes you are right, we Americans are sometimes guilty of trying to force the world to play by our rules and punishing those that don't. I've given up making excuses for our current government and those segments of our society that think to dissent and/or look at the bigger picture is to be "un-American".

Could it be that we're the target of both extreme envy and critism because we're successful? Perhaps we should concentrate on our domestic problems and leave the rest of the world to fend for themselves, but we can't turn back the hands of time and become isolationist now. The world is far too interdependent to allow that.

The last American leader to suggest that Americans scale back their expectations and tighten their belts was the very ethical, moral and intelligent Jimmy Carter, and we see where that tactic got him. There is no politician left that will tell the truth, because the truth won't get you elected.

This leaves us in the position of being the only legitimate "superpower" and as such we're the lightning rod for world criticism. Even with it's faults, this is a wonderful country with vast opportunities, bountiful optimism and the lead in world finances. Yes we'll make mistakes, but the real strength of this system is that we have enough voices of conscience to protest when things get too extreme.

Pay close attention to the test case in South Carolina in which a protester was arrested while peaceably demonstrating during the presidents visit there. If he's found guilty just because the Bush administration wants to squash anyone that dares to dissent, it's a whole new ballgame and we're in big trouble.<br>Dave Nichols
1980 528i track car with M30b 3.5l engine
1991 535i, factory five speed, daily driver with 244k miles
1997 740il purple on purple, wife's car
1997 Chevy Silverado (hey, you have to pull the trailer with something!)

[mb90535im]

Good post Big Dog -

I'm curious if it is just me, but I have this very real sense that we are so polorized in this country that we're eventually headed for a 2nd civil war. This time it won't be North vs. South, but Left vs. Right (and I don't mean coast)?

[dave.nichols]

I'm not so sure the left can field a viable alternative, look at what's out there for presidential candidates. I agree that some major problems loom on the horizon, and in my opinion the conflict will break down along socio-economic and cultural lines. For the first time in our history we're no longer working like a "melting pot" where every ingredient becomes part of the whole but keeps it's unique flavor, now we're like a mixture of oil and vinegar dressing, each ingredient staying discrete and easily seperated from the other.<br>Dave Nichols
1980 528i track car with M30b 3.5l engine
1991 535i, factory five speed, daily driver with 244k miles
1997 740il purple on purple, wife's car
1997 Chevy Silverado (hey, you have to pull the trailer with something!)

[Randy_V]

...we'll be lighten up a missile - right up your froggy poop-chute.

Incoming...<br>

Randy Venier
San Diego, CA
'98 740iL (Black/Tan/NAV-TV & all the gadgets)

<A HREF="http://members.rennlist.com/randy_v/palmtree%20hood%20invert.JPG"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/randy_v/palmtree%20hood%20invert.JPG" ALT="California Beemin'" HEIGHT=150 WIDTH=225 BORDER=0 ALIGN=left></A>

[StoneWalk]

We are indeed in a time of considerable conflict within the US society on what direction the country should take and who should lead it.

But part of what is great about this country is that we've (mostly) figured out how to have such debates without resorting to civil war. The first one was plenty - I honestly don't believe we'll go back to that again.

I am reminded of a story about a new immigrant father who had escaped strife and turmoil in his native country to come to the US with his son. They had seen a lot of rough times, and happened to arrive just as the Bush/Gore election was in a frenzy. The father had followed the election with keen interest, and understood that the leadership of the country was in doubt and that many people felt really strongly about the outcome. He got in his car and drove his son through Washington DC past the white house. He pointed to it and told his son "Look there. The leadership is changing hands, and _no_ _one_ is shooting each other. This is why we came here son. Don't forget this."

Unlike many countries run by dictatorship, we the people of the US have the option to get rid of our leader and pick someone else if we don't agree with what he is doing. We don't have to arm ourselves and go kill people to do it.
<br>
StoneWalk, Ventura California
<img src="http://members.roadfly.com/stonewalk/M3lagunaSeca2a.jpg">

[mb90535im]

No doubt, the Dem's are in big trouble and probably looking at another rout in 2004, even against an incumbent that in my opinion should have been impeached and tar-and-feathered months ago.

There's an interesting discussion currently going on around the South as to what it would take for the demo's to take the South in 2004. I'm afraid that since all the racist and ultra-conservative democrats finally realized they were in the wrong party (until recent years there really wasn't a significant Republican party presence in the South) there's not a snowball's chance in Hell. (especially with the lack-luster field of canadiates we've seen thus far)

[M3SMG02]

...and you should have stopped doing business with ol' Saadaam Hussein about 10 Years ago...

[simianBoy2003]

in the mid 1980s?.

[mb90535im]

I thought that was Iran we sold those weapons to.

Sell weapons to Iran, fly weapons and proceeds from those sales to Nicagraguia(sp) to support the Contras, planes return back to U.S. full of Coke (not the softdrink) under the protection of the CIA and the U.S. military. What a great scheme. That idiot should have been impeached and tar-and-feathered too and there's acrually people out there who thinks he should be added to Mount Rushmore. Well at least he had a reasonable excuse with his illness, probably didn't realize what he was doing, or it was too complicated to keep up with.

[BigDog (2002)]

For the record, incase any of the '02 folks read this board, any preceding comments labeled 'Big Dog' do not necessarily represent my views, and I"m sure those of y'all who know me understand this!!!

4 More Years, F***CK the French! Freedom to the Iraqi people, etc...

--
BD
'76 2002
'03 Dodge 4*4 QC LB HO Cummins (you gotta pull the trailer!)

Politicians are like diapers, they both need changing for the same reasons.

[Cepages]