+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 99407 cayuse is an unknown quantity at this point cayuse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Tramlining cures?

    I know this issue has been addressed before, but I have not seen anyone post a solution for it. I live in Seattle, where the roads are heavily worn by studded tires. I love my Z4, but it has the worst straight line handling of any car I have driven, with the exception of a duck footed Austin Healey (at least the Healey's problem could be fixed with an alignment). I don't even bother to change lanes any more. I just wait for the car to jerk to the side without bothering to correct it. Half the corners I drive through require steering in the opposite direction to counter the oversteer. The Z4's extreme tramlining behavior was frankly a shock to me, since every Bimmer I have owned or driven has had impeccable road manners. How could they have gotten this one so wrong? And yes I took it to the dealer who said it was fine.

    Without belaboring the point, my question here is has anyone found a cure for this? I assume replacing the run flat tires would help, but that seems extreme since they only have 1,500 miles on them (by the way there is noticable wear on the outside of the front tires after only 1,500 miles). changing tires is also not the whole answer since none of the other cars I have driven with low profile tires exhibit such extreme behavior. I also considered going to a suspension shop to detune the alignment, but I am a little reluctant to experiment with this.

    I know some of you owned Z3's which were even worse, but that hardly provides BMW with an excuse. But for this, the Z4 is truly a great car. It is just hard to enjoy it, when it feels like you are about to fly off the road at any moment.


  2. #2
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 34058 geoffleung is an unknown quantity at this point geoffleung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    10
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    i\'ve got the exact same problem!

    Z4 3.0 with the 18" sport wheels.... I'm in Vancouver BC Canada, so the roads are just as bad!

    So far i've tried varios tire pressure combinations and nothing seems to help at all....

  3. #3
    somewherinla
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: somewherinla's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Re: Tramlining cures?

    I am sorry to state the obvious, but this is what one has to expect from any sport cars... I doubt a Porsche, Ferrary, Lotus or any car that is that low to the ground, fitted with sports suspension and low profile tires will do better... It's like wondering why an SUV can't take a tight turn at high speed. Maybe you shoud get an X5.

  4. #4
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 67881 erwinZ4 is an unknown quantity at this point erwinZ4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,454
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Did you check the tire pressure ?

    The Runflat monitor does NOT warn you if the loss is slow and even. I checked mine earlier this week and instead of 33 and 36 (18 inch) it was 28-30! First thing I noticed after pumping them up was the steering felt more surefooted.

    "I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
    I travel for travel's sake: the great affair is to move." (Stevenson 1850-1894)
    <img src=http://members.roadfly.com/erwinz4/26.OPRITZ4.JPG WIDTH=435>
    3.0 SMG Sterling/Black/Black/107/Xenon/Nav/Handy:Bluetooth Nokia 6310i
    SMG is not perfect but it works for me! To lazy to change my
    own gears and to immature to go for the Step...

  5. #5
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 74995 BiggerTwin is an unknown quantity at this point BiggerTwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    102
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    I sent a letter to BMW and got a call back.

    While they had no answers, the guy who called had a Mustang that tracked fine until he put bigger tires on it and then it started tramlining all over the place.

    Before buying my Z4 3.0 with sport package I had a 2.5 with sport package demo for the weekend and loved it. I didn't notice any tramlining and was surprised when my 3.0 exhibited the worst directional stability of any car I have ever owned. Many cars have wide tires and good directional stability (my old M3) while other's don't. I don't think you can blame it on the tires. I think it has to be a combination of quick steering, tires, suspension geometry, and road surface.

    I am having my dealer check to make sure the 3.0 sport package has the same suspension and steering ratio as the 2.5 sport package. If it does, I am buying 17x8 wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport tires from the Tire Rack. While this may sound extreme for a new car, it isnít much more expensive than replacing the OEM tires that BMW will want on the car when the lease is up anyway.

    Does anybody have tramlining problems with the 17" wheels and tires or is it only the 18" wheels on the 3.0 sport package that do this?

    Alan

  6. #6
    z4dude
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: z4dude's Avatar


    Yes | No

    I looked up tramlining on google...

    First link was to TireRack:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/tramlining.htm

    Nice little explination about tramlining and what causes it. I find it even more amusing that the pictured car is a Z4.


  7. #7
    z4dude
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: z4dude's Avatar


    Yes | No

    I\'ve got a 2.5 sport with the 17\" wheels...

    I experience some tramlining with the car, but rarely notice it. I've never driven a Z4 with 18" wheels so I can't compare... but of all the places I've driven (up and down California and all over Los Angeles) it really hasn't been an issue for me.

    Prior to the Z4, I had a 98' Mercedes C230 that tramlined worse than this car. Was a little scary to feel the car want to follow the grooves of the highway.

  8. #8
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 71875 Sagan is an unknown quantity at this point Sagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    682
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Re: Tramlining cures?

    I agree with what was said below about it being associated with wide tires, light weight, and firm suspension. I do think you should have your alignment checked. I have 5,000 on my car and I notice no tire wear. Even a vey small amount of misalignment could greatly compound the tramlining problem.<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/sagan/wet2d.jpg">
    '03, 3.0, 6-sp., Black Sapphire Metallic, Black Top, Black Leather, Sport Pkg., Convenience Pkg., Premium Pkg., CD-Changer, Xenon, Butt Warmers, Universal Transmitter-Mirror, Mud Flaps, Chrome Tips.

  9. #9
    NordZ
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: NordZ's Avatar


    Yes | No

    18\" wheel data point

    I've got 225/40-18 Dunlop Wintersport M3s all around and have absolutely NO tramlining issues. I've got the sport suspension, driven at varying speeds, with and without Sport Mode selected, on varying roads from German Autobahn, to heavily rutted-by-studded-tires Norwegian roads, and am entirely satisfied.

    That said, I've got no experience with the OEM tires to compare it to as I drove it off the lot with the winter tires. My guess is the tramlining has more to do with the Bridgestones than change in tire size

  10. #10
    silverZ4
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: silverZ4's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Hah - that's like when Lyle Lovett said if you

    looked up "ugly" in the dictionary it had his picture!

  11. #11
    Registered Member
    Location
    Mohrsville, PA, United States
    Member No: 29695 mnoble is an unknown quantity at this point mnoble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    1,836
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Re: Tramlining cures?

    It really depends on the tires. The car itself is not the problem. Lo profile, high performance tires with very stiff sidewalls will be a problem, runflats or not. I've had three sets of tires on my M. Dunlop 8080s (Stock), Bridgestone S03s, and now Yokohama AVS ES100s. The Bridgstones tramlined like crazy but they were the best performance tire of the three. The others tramine some but not really badly.

    ///Mike Noble
    <img src=http://members.roadfly.com/mnoble/Noblesig.jpg>

    98 M Roadster, Cosmos Black/Black/Black
    President, ZSCCA
    ZSCCA Rep for southeastern Pennsylvania

  12. #12
    lool
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: lool's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Re: Tramlining cures?

    I have a 2.5 with the 17" and OEM runflats. The tramlining has gotten much much better after having driven the car for awhile now. In fact now after 12,500 miles I notice very little tramlining. The tire wear is also very little. I did rotate the tires right around 8000 miles just to even out the wear but my guess is that I should easily get 30000 miles on the tires before having to replace them. I now have winter tires (205-55QR16 Michelin Arctic)and there is zero tramlining.

  13. #13
    DWL
    Guest
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: DWL's Avatar


    Yes | No

    Tramlining

    I have a 3.0 sport with the 18" rims. I agree that the tramlining is very bad - almost to the point of dangerous.

    This winter i got a set of winter tires and 17" rims supplied directly from BMW (run flats). The tramlining virtually disappeared.

    I think the problem lies with the tires and not the car. That being said, the run flats (with stiff sidewalls), and the slightly larger diameter rims will not help the situation, but I think that the real problem is the different series tires that are supplied front and rear with the 18" rims.

    front - 225 40 series
    rear - 255 35 series

    To me, it seems that this is the only wild card. I am sure that air pressure is also important, i would run it a few pounds above recommended.

    Has anyone mounted the exact same tires on all 4 corners with the 18" rims?



  14. #14
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 94465 mcchris is an unknown quantity at this point mcchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    434
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Re: I sent a letter to BMW and got a call back.

    Well, not sure what the technical definition of tramlining is, but here's what happens to mine in a few situations:

    On regular road, letting go of the wheel will the car will slowly move with the slope of the road when the slope is not in the natural direction of the road (i.e. the slope is for water run off rather than banking). But for the most part, I seldom notice any problems.

    On road with front to back grooves scraped in the concrete for traction, I notice a some tramlining, but its not too bad.

    There's an old section of asphalt road where there are actually depressions created over the years from people's tires. They're doing construction around it and rerouted the traffic so we drive slightly askew to those grooves. When I drive over that, the car tries to follow the old grooves unless I force it where the lane actually goes. I drive it every day so I anticipate it and grip the wheel harder, but its the kind of thing that can really wake you up if you're not paying attention.

    2003 Z4 2.5 Black/Beige/Beige, Con/Prem/Sport, SMG, Xenon, Prem Sound

  15. #15
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 99407 cayuse is an unknown quantity at this point cayuse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Re: Tramlining cures?

    I can't agree. I have driven numerous sports cars with low profile tires and none of them tramline as badly as this car. As someone who has driven and owned sports cars since the 60's, I think I know what good sports steering is supposed to feel like.

  16. #16
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 99407 cayuse is an unknown quantity at this point cayuse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Re: Tramlining

    The different tire sizes could be the problem, but I don't know why. Porsche has run larger tires on the back for years without any stability problems (other than the inherent problems caused by the rear engine configuration). I frankly suspect that BMW did not do a proper job of tuning the tire, wheel, suspension and motor driven power steering combination on the 3.0 sport package for real world conditions. It works flawlessly on smooth roads, but when has good sports car country ever been made up of perfectly groomed roadways?

  17. #17
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 87185 WannaZ is an unknown quantity at this point WannaZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    160
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    DWL...see my reply below re 18" wheels


  18. #18
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 15919 Ginger is an unknown quantity at this point Ginger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    4,353
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    Re: Tramlining cures?

    Iím with BMW of North America, LLC. Iím sorry to read about your concern with tire tramlining. If you want our assistance, please phone us at (800) 831-1117, and mention Reference # 200403401997 so that we can discuss your concern.

  19. #19
    Registered Member
    Location
    Linnich, , Germany
    Member No: 93294 ZZ4Top is an unknown quantity at this point ZZ4Top's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    76
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    I have org. 17" with 225 RFT tires and tramlining

    I think that NON RFT tires on 18" rims will bring less tramlining. Changing from 18" to 17" plus NON RFT tires might be best but I prefer the look of 18". So I will go for 18" and NON RFT tires.

  20. #20
    Registered Member
    Location
    , ,
    Member No: 90263 bellwilliam is an unknown quantity at this point bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    206
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes | No

    problem going with same size tires all around!

    I wonder if there will be problems going with same size tires all around, if you already have 18" wheels. since stock 18" comes with 225/40/18 on front and 255/35/18 on back, which is what 3.0 sports designed for. won't going to 225/45/17 all around cause problems with oversteering. since the rear tires is not wider than the front?

    I really would like to know the answer, because I have been thinking of going to 17" (from 18"). may be it should be 225/45-17 and 255/40-17 combo? but this will usually require different widths wheel front/rear?

    bellwilliam in SOCAL
    2000 Z3 2.3, 5 speed
    2003 Z4 3.0, Steptronic
    Beck's Porsche 550 Spyder, 4 speed, 2.2L, 1300lb, 150 dyno HP
    http://www.cardomain.com/id/bellwilliam
    <img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/304000-304999/304138_29_full.jpg" height=240 width=320"

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
1e2 Forum