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  1. #1
    Dave
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    Why the new 2002 might not happen

    I was poking around on the BMW sight tonight and ran across a small banner ad for the new Mini. I think it was a Shockwave presentation or something. Anyway, it says they are due out in 2001, and as a Rover product would probably be in BMW dealers.

    So...do you think BMW would try to peddle the goofy Mini (which I love, BTW) AND a revamped 2002? Seems like a lot on their plate. They have publicly committed to the Mini in the past, I believe.

    The site wil be www.mini.com, and while it isn't up yet, if you wait through the entire presentation you can sign up to be notified when it comes out.

    -Dave, who would dig a Cooper S
    '76 2002
    '74 2002



  2. #2
    Lars
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    but it still could

    I think it is still possible. Most likely they will be for different markets or countries. The mini will be for england and france, place like that. I think the 02 will mainly for the US market. Also they have announced that they will be reintroducing the MG(i forget the exact title for it) which will be built along side the Z3 in S. Carolina and use many of the same parts.

    So it is possible as along as they market it correctly. Besides GM, Ford and that other company do it all the time with their different car companies, look at the Breeze, Stratus and the Cirrus. All the same car, same engine, just one has leather interior as an option and few other minor differences and they charge $4000 more for the Cirrus over the Breeze.

    Although it is hard to say which of the Mini or the 02 will cost more or it could end up being the same car just badged different(please NO!!).

    Lars
    Looking forward to 2002


  3. #3
    chris king
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    Re: Why the new 2002 might not happen

    i agree w/lars on this one. the mini will have virtually no u.s. market. only freaks like us would even consider buying such a car. but the 02 is good ALL OVER.

    BTW i will call you later today at work. i've got 2 trials staring me in the face so i've been really scare lately, and a couple of judges are about to ream me a new one for being late on a few things. can't have that.

    --ck
    74 tii
    86 VF500


  4. #4
    Frank Haas
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    Re: Why the new 2002 might not happen

    : i agree w/lars on this one. the mini will have virtually no u.s. market. only freaks like us would even consider buying such a car. but the 02 is good ALL OVER.

    While I agree a new 2002 might have a broader market appeal, I wouldn't discount the appeal or practicality of the new mini. Besides the old VW beetle, the mini in it's 40 year production run has sold more units worldwide than almost anything else.(me thinks over 2+ million now) Issigonis created an icon for design of the small front wheel drive car. If the price is right they shouldn't have too much trouble selling them in the US.

    Waiting for either the new mini or 02 to hit our shores....

    Regards,
    Frank

    60 Austin Mini
    67 1600
    68 2002
    72 2002



  5. #5
    DP
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    Re: but it still could

    : I think it is still possible. Most likely they will be for different markets or countries. The mini will be for england and france, place like that. I think the 02 will mainly for the US market. Also they have announced that they will be reintroducing the MG(i forget the exact title for it) which will be built along side the Z3 in S. Carolina and use many of the same parts.

    : So it is possible as along as they market it correctly. Besides GM, Ford and that other company do it all the time with their different car companies, look at the Breeze, Stratus and the Cirrus. All the same car, same engine, just one has leather interior as an option and few other minor differences and they charge $4000 more for the Cirrus over the Breeze.

    : Although it is hard to say which of the Mini or the 02 will cost more or it could end up being the same car just badged different(please NO!!).

    : Lars
    : Looking forward to 2002


    The road to the "new '02" definitely goes through England. BMW has been hemorrhaging money into Rover for some time now, and as a smallish manufacturer in the world of mega-mergers, they are going to have to rationalize any and all spending on Rover.

    The word in the British Auto press is that the next Rover small car platform will be the basis for the next '02. That would mean it would be based on a FWD platform. Ouch. That's not the only version of the story floating around (another one has it based on the next 3 series), but it certainly makes financial sense.

    I doubt the Mini platform would be leveraged for the 02; it's already a "last-generation" design, and was not designed as a flexible platform.

    If you think FWD is scary, there's even a rumor that BMW will license the Focus (W170) platform from Ford for the Rover 200 and 400 and hence the new '02. An '02 from Ford doesn't sound too appealling, I don't care how nice that Focus is supposed to be.

    I'm definitely with you on the badging concerns, but keep in mind that sharing platforms is a lot different from the "badge engineering" practiced by GM in the 80s (I believe the Cadillac Cimarron is the poster child for that concept).

    Platform-sharing is not about Camaros and Firebirds - even hard points can be moved around a bit; it's mostly about tooling. The classic modern example is of course VW, who use the same platform for the New Beetle, Golf, Passat, Audi TT, Audi A3, Audi A4, Audi A6 (!), and several similar Skoda and Seat models in Europe. That a pretty diverse range of vehicles (albeit they are vaguely similar), and you can see how accountants must writhe with pleasure at the prospect of all the savings - that's why all these mergers are happening.

    Anyway, the point is that it's flexible enough that it's possible to imagine a FWD platform spawning a RWD vehicle. Unlikely, but not impossible.

    As for the new Mini obviating the new 02 - I see them as very different products. The new Mini marketing in the US will be a niche version of the marketing for the new S-type; it's for Anglophiles and Anglophile wanna-bes. That said, I happen to covet it hopelessly. The 02 will be a more mainstream entry-level BMW. Remember, VW is getting 23K$ for Golfs these days - there is profit to be had in that market.

    Bottom line: if the 02 helps BMW write off millions of capital expenditure, then it's chances of seeing production are pretty good. The downside is what that is going to do to its DNA.


  6. #6
    Justin Hughes
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    Re: but it still could

    : The word in the British Auto press is that the next Rover small car platform will be the basis for the next '02. That would mean it would be based on a FWD platform. Ouch. That's not the only version of the story floating around (another one has it based on the next 3 series), but it certainly makes financial sense.

    AAAAAAAAAA!!! NOOOOOOOOO! Say it isn't so!!!

    : If you think FWD is scary, there's even a rumor that BMW will license the Focus (W170) platform from Ford for the Rover 200 and 400 and hence the new '02. An '02 from Ford doesn't sound too appealling, I don't care how nice that Focus is supposed to be.

    I own a '95 Mercury Tracer (Escort clone), an '83 320i, and am in the process of obtaining a '76 2002. Though I obviously haven't driven the '02 much, even my 320i will run circles around my Tracer in all areas of performance. The Focus is supposed to replace the Escort. If this is true, and the new '02 is based on that platform, then what will separate a 2002 from an economy Ford other than a roundel and several thousand dollars on the price tag?

    : Bottom line: if the 02 helps BMW write off millions of capital expenditure, then it's chances of seeing production are pretty good. The downside is what that is going to do to its DNA.

    The 1500 and later cars based on it (including the 2002) saved BMW once. It would be quite fitting if the '02 was to "save" BMW again. Not that they're an endangered species now, but this Rover thing has got to hurt! But all BMWs are RWD (excluding the 325iX and X5 for now) for good reasons. The performance and pinpoint handling of these cars is what makes them special. If the new '02 is a BMW Focus, I think they'd be as good as dead already.


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