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  1. #1
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    how i watched the french gran prix on tape

    watch it at normal speed until schumacher passes alonso in the pits, then fast forward until michael makes his 4th stop and comes out ahead, and then turn the tv off with 12 laps to go.
    talk about boring! i can't stand watching f1 anymore. people can tell me about the technology, intricate pit stop strategies being like a game of chess, etc. the racing SUCKS.


  2. #2
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    What\'s the solution? (m)

    I will concede MS and Ferrari are the preeminant driver & team of the era. That being said, why is the RACING so weak?

    1- Certain technology \"idiot proofs\" the sport. NO, I\'m NOT saying the technology makes F1 cars easy to drive etc. But high-tech changes the nature of the sport
    Look at the impact high-tech- rackets have had on tennis, for example. EVERYONE now goes for it on EVERY SHOT because mis-hits no longer mean you\'re shopping for a new elbow. Everyone stands at the baseline and hits it 100 mph.
    In F1, carbon brakes make the difference between great braking and bad braking a few feet. Paddle shifters and automatic clutches mean no missed or blown shifts. Traction-control means you can floor it after every corner without spinning. Anti-stall software so you can\'t stall it when you spin or mess up in the pits?
    2- Other technology creates advantages that take things to an absurd-level and forestall competition. Shell makes a LIGHTER fuel than everyone else? TIRES chemically bond with the track? Tires custom tailored to specific cars? Tires have reduced lap times 3-4 seconds from 2003 to 2004. Big money is being spent for no real reason.
    3- Idiot track design. The endless twisties most courses (designed to slow cars down & make sponsor decals visiable)limit the opportunities to pass. Too many endless chicanes. Straits seem to always end with a kink in what would be the braking/passing zone. Narrow tracks limit passing options. Won\'t be long before EVERY track is like Monoco (like most aren\'t already when it come to passing)
    4- Other factors- Aero designs limit close-following/passing. An entire generation of prima-donna drivers who block and chop at any indication of a pass make it less risky to wait and \"pass in the pits.\" Unintended consequences of the old rule change that allowed refueling.

    I may be a \"retro-grouch\" but what I\'d do-
    1- Revise the engine formula to allow separate turbo & non-turbo designs, any # of cylinders you want etc. I would ban pneumatic valves- valve springs forever! (reduced revs=reduced power & lower costs). Revise the \"one engine rule\" to mandate you race on the same engine you qualified on. If it blows in practice, who cares?
    2- Ban electronic gear shifting. Gear selector and clutch must be mechanically activated. Clutch must be foot activated. No driver aids allowed (traction control, launch control, abs, anti-stall). Required all cars SELF-start. via battery & starter motor.
    3- Pump-gas. No refueling.
    4- In lieu of a spec tire- no tire changes allowed except for punctures or rain. SLICKS, no groves for dry tires!
    5- Encourage (demand?) track design that promotes passing zones.

    FROM THE TWILIGHT ZONE-
    Instead of the arcane technology contest F1 has become, how about some BROAD technology competition.
    A- Create a formula that normalizes advantages for front-engine v. rear engine designs. Front engine cars could be lighter? Carry bigger engines? More wing? \"More tire?\"
    B- \"Movable\" aero aids were banned way-back. Allow movable wings in trade off for a smaller engine, a front engine etc?

    RichardM///3
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  3. #3
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    i think all of the michelin suggestions should be

    accepted. they all sound reasonable and effective.

    it's a demo. so guess what the details are.
    20% Tint
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  4. #4
    2000e39
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    Do you play video games?

    You don't see the beauty in a team changing a pit stategy because they were going to lose, and make an extra pitstop while a driver
    drives better than he probably ever has to kick someones a--.

    Formula one is a chess game not an American Stock car race. If you
    don't like it watch Nextel with the other rednecks. Most of these
    drivers can't play chess.

    The technology always ends up in you daily driver. Quicker steering,
    quicker shifting, better tires, suspension, etc.........

  5. #5
    2000e39
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    Yes | No

    Nobody can catch Ferrari!


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    its time for another auto monster to jump in...

    Wouldn't it be great if a company like Porsche would join the game and put together a team capable for kicking ferrari in the a$$-----------------------------------------------------
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    I particularly love your use of the \"ad hominem\"

    attack to butress your argument (so you won\'t have to look up \"ad hominem\" that means personal attack- your insinuation I\'m a \"redneck\" who should watch Nascar because I don\'t share your \"learned\" er, ah, video game opinions. BTW- You likely only get to play video games when your daddy lets you use his PC. That also is an ad homiem attack. We\'re even.)

    Well, yes, the 4th pitstop did create some of the only \"action\" in France. MS is clearly the best driver of his era. So yes I can, and do, appreciate his drive. However, it was a poor excuse for actually CATCHING someone on the TRACK and (shudder) PASSING him. Getting all excited about the strategy and the fact he was turning fast laps as a subsitute for actually COMPETING WITH SOMEONE ON THE TRACK can charitablely be called \"rationalizing\". That you\'ll have to look up.

    Until and unless F1 figures out a way to both keep (most of) the technology AND provide races that are just a bit more entertaining, it will be in trouble. And again, so you don\'t forget, I\'m an F1 fan. Been to all 5 races at Indy, and get up early every applicable Saturday and Sunday morning. Been following F1 since the 60\'s.

    The sport\'s in trouble. Don\'t believe me? Ford and Jordan are talking about selling/getting out. There are only 10 teams in the sport, not the 12 the rules actually provide for. To even have a chance of being competitive requires a budget large than some nations. And whatever that money is spent on, the F1 fan can\'t see it because it\'s some hidden areo, software and/or arcane (look that up too) machancial \"enhancement.\" \"Ooo, look at how that Bridgestone tire chemically BONDS to the track.\" Yeah, THAT really draws crowd and viewers. Figure it out...

    So, wow, some archane improvement to aero or the introduction of paddle shifting (right up there with I-drive IMO)are just going to trickle down into my daily driver, right? And technology that\'s of interest to engineers (if even then) is a reasonable subsitute for actual motor races with genuine competition?

    So you prefer \"races\" that are nothing more than high-speed parades, right? I\'m not talking about the WWF of \"motorsport\" aka \"NASCAR.\" What would YOU rather watch, Ferrari diffuser technology (which, of course, you can\'t see) or maybe a technology battle that you CAN see? Front v. rear engine? Turbo v. non-turbo? Racing where passes are made on the track v. in the pits?

    Naa, forget it. Go play your video games until daddy lets you drive the BMW.

    RichardM///3
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    You make a lot of sense. I've been watching F1

    off and on since the mid-1970's. Attended a couple of GPs at Watkins Glen back then. I stopped watching for about a decade, from the late '80s to about 1998. The ever-ongoing technical innovations and the rising costs have reduced the on-track passing to almost nil. I missed the days of 30+ car fields and good on-track racing. The European and American sports car and touring car series is a lot more interesting and exciting to watch now. F1 really needs an overhaul before it's too late.


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    69 tattered and hailstorm dented 1600/2002 "Reno"
    Racing is life. Everything before or after is just waiting."

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    Re: Do you play video games?

    when the most 'exciting' part of an AUTOMOBILE RACE become the pit strategy, something is wrong. watching a pit strategy unfold is about as exciting as watching a business plan its fiscal year. ms is the best driver of the era, but his skill comes across because he makes less mistakes than anyone else and can whip off a few fast laps before he comes into the pits. its a great display of skill but it is utterly boring. i would much rather see his skill used in actual driving situations where is is challenged/challenging another driver. i personally like richards ideas on how to return some excitement to f1.

  10. #10
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    You must like big [Oops!]!

    I never said any of those things can take the place of head to head
    racing, but if the FIA have to change things every time Ferrari kicks
    [Oops!], that is wrong. Jaguar only got into F1 to sell cars for a few years. It was a better team with Jackie in charge because he cared. Eddie Jordan cannot keep good help around because of his attitude. By the time the team integrates someone leaves. If they change all you speak of in order to create spectator approval and Ferrari still dominates and "passing" does not improve and is still boring by your
    standards, what is gained? Should Ferrari leave motor racing because
    nobody can catch them? Would there be more passing without Ferrari or Schumacher? I am sorry you took offense to the personal attacks.

  11. #11
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    My concerns are not Ferrari related...

    MS is the best of his era & Ferrari clearly has the best cars. The only objection I have to MS and Ferrari is the perception they use politics and/or their power as the premier team to massage the \"system\" to favor them, even when their superiority makes such issues moot. I\'m no MS \"fan\" but he rightfully ranks in the class of the greatest, based upon the results he\'s generated and periodic displays of raw driving talent.

    That said, MS and Ferrari\'s dominence, at some point, will gravely hurt the sport. What should be done to facilitate competition.The case can be made that keeping the formula where it is (as to engine, car design etc) actually increases costs and make it more difficult to compete with a team that possesses big advantages. The Pareto Principle (aka 80/20 rule) holds that incrememtal improvements are harder to create and much more expensive as processes mature. If Ferrari is 1 sec per lap faster than the \"best of the rest\" on tracks that run 75 sec per lap, the gap is less than 2% yet that 2% can and will cost tens of millions to bridge. IMO, the sport will be better off to try to have these funds spent in a more visible way (turbos competing with non-turbos as an example) v. microscopic improvements that cannot be seen nor understood.

    Loosing another team or two will be a big problem. For the sake of discussion, assume MS and Ferrari is a dominent as in \'04 for the next 2 or 3 years. What will THAT do to the sport?RichardM///3
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  12. #12
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    Yes | No

    i agree

    Mark
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  13. #13
    2000e39
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    Yes | No

    Much better, I see your point...........

    I honestly think they are a little late coming up with changes in the reg's. I am thinking more on the lines of car and or wing height or
    smaller displacement but I would hate to see the technology leave.

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    That's crazy talk! That race was great. Ruebens

    passing for third on the last lap...you obviously weren't paying attention. I thought for what formula 1 is these days, that was the best race I've seen in a while.

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    I agree. This was the most interesting race

    so far this season. It came very close to a total upset with a Renault 1-3 finish, even a 2-3 finish. Rubens made a very "Juan Pablo-ish" move at the end there. So, who was saying the he doesn't have the fire anymore? :-)<html>
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  16. #16
    Valentino Rossi
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    Yes | No

    Yup: Well said...and Cosmos' post as well !!!!

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    its all relative

    95% of the race wasn't even a race, it was a freakin parade lap. so what if it was the most exciting race of the season? it was still a boring parade that came down to pit stops in the end. compared to other road racing, formula one is a complete bore.
    try watching a motogp motorcycle race for excitement. the brazilian gp that ran on sunday had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. that is the kind of excitement and racing that formula one should try to emulate.

  18. #18
    AndyO
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    Reubens Pass

    that was something!!!!

    Not over till it's over.

    Trulli must be furious!!!! I guess his Michelin tires gave out, and Reubens saw the opportunity and went for the opening.

    Heartbreaker for Trulli.

  19. #19
    2000e39
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    Go Rubens!

    I think he is going to smoke Mike in a race head to head this year. I bet Ferrari is going to tell him to back off and he is going to tell them to kissoff.

  20. #20
    Jim Derrig 93 750
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    Yes | No

    The "race" was an illusion

    I was taken in until about lap 60, and then Rueben's (very nice) pass at the end confirmed it. Micheal Schumacher had this race in the bag from the start, and the only questions were when and how he would pass Alonso.

    All we were treated to was an elaborate risk mitigation strategy designed to move MS into the lead with the least amount of effort. If it wasn't for the superior Renault "launch control," MS would have grabbed the lead at the start and motored off into the distance at about .3 seconds a lap faster than Alonso. As it was, he held back and played a classic (and boring) MS "stalking" strategy in which he deliberately does NOT challenge on the track for the lead, and instead uses pit stop chess moves to pass.

    Todt decided to use a 4-stop strategy because, as MS said, "otherwise we might have had to pass on the track." Gawd! If anything shows the problem with F1, it was that comment! It ain't racing, its a race to AVOID racing!

    The Ferraristone is so superior right now that they can win on a 4-stopper, literally throwing away about 15 seconds just to avoid having to race on the track. Ruebens could work his way up from 10th and pass a Renault on a track where passing is all but impossible.

    There never was a race. The inevitable just took a little longer to become apparent.

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