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  1. #1
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    Member No: 35038 newbmw is an unknown quantity at this point newbmw's Avatar
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    Yes | No

    Drop the Twin Keel for '05??

    The twin-keel chasis design didn't provide the performance that was promised in '04. Looking forward to '05, do we continue to do wind tunnel work and evolve the twin-keel to make it competitive, or scrap that and go back to a more conventional chasis for '05?

  2. #2
    2000e39
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    Yes | No

    Never look back!


  3. #3
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    How would you/we know? Clearly the car needs

    work but WHY it is not as fast as the Ferrari is not as simple as \"the twin keel design.\" F1 cars are in effect 200 mph Rubek\'s cubes: at a track where lap times run 1 min 15 sec, being 2 seconds slower than the leader means you are off the mark by less than 3 percent- where that 3% \"is\" is, obviously, hard to find and expense to improve.RichardM///3
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  4. #4
    SN Rollins
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    I think they should try and make it work...

    All the others teams are sticking to the same type of design because they know it works. Well, sticking only to what you know works can get you passed by with a new design, perhaps a twin keel design. Provided the damn thing works.

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    Look @ Mac...

    They made their twin keel work.
    I think these ppl are way too bright to NOT be able to make it work & find a solution for more pace.

    Ferrari has shown that they evolved THEIR idea not copy some1 elses.

    Williams should stick to their guns until it's proven the concept can't be be improved.

    The FW26 today is about ~2-4 seconds quicker than the FW25 & ~1-2 secs quicker than the 26 that started the year.

    Remember that BAR & Renault had more improvement potential & came from a ways back. Williams just has not developed @ their rate.

    But that has already changed since Montreal. Remember that they were pretty much on pace & had good pts finishes but were DQ's.

    Magny Cours & Silverstone, new UNTESTED parts were put on the car be4 any testing. After this week's test, you will see an improvement @ the next race.

  6. #6
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    Just as I had predicted...with a little testing...

    the FW26 has been P1 (even over MS) both days at Jerez...with the young hotshot Brazilian PiZa. :P

    Yes it's testing but that's what they said about BAR this past winter...


  7. #7
    Jim Derrig 93 750
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    my theory on why they went twin keel

    In terms of both time and $, the fastest and cheapest ways to find more pace are, in order:

    1. Tires.
    2. Aero/chassis
    3. Drivetrain

    With item one, Ferrari has an obvious advantage: Its own, personal tire manufacturer. Of course, Michelin MIGHT make some sort of technological leap over Bridgestone, but such leaps are rare and when it comes to more commonplace advances, those are found through constant, incremental tuning of the chassis/tire combo. And Ferraristone has a huge advantage there.

    So item 1 has been taken away. That means you go to item 2. And you have to find an area not occupied by Ferrari, as the chances of you outdesigning Ferrari and Byrne in their own ballpark are not very good. This led both McLaren and Williams to go twin keel, in hopes of exploiting that layout's potential for aero advantages. The twin keel necessarily poses shorter control arms and other suspension issues. McLaren seems to have solved theirs. Williams clearly has not.

    BUT, considering that a trip back to the single keel will leave you facing the Ferraristone advantage with item #1 again, Williams really has no choice but to continue developing the twin k in the hopes of garnering an advantage in area #2.

    Regarding area #3, BMW is more than able to hold its own and has been equal or superior to Ferrari every year. But (as the underpowered Renaults have shown), in F1 tires and aero will win out over drivetrain.



  8. #8
    GM3
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    Rumors...

    that a single keel car is already in the new wind tunnel in preparation for next year.....

  9. #9
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    According to last month's F1 Racing, it's there

    for comparative purposes vs. the twin keel not necessarily that they are heading that way as Sam Michael has stated so often this year.

  10. #10
    Jim Derrig 93 750
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    since the FW24 was a single keel, that's not

    surprising. They'd probably keep a 24 around for comparison purposes, to make sure they are improving.

  11. #11
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    keep going. i truly believe that patrick head

    would not have allowed a car to be built that he did not think had potential. i think they need to keep working on the car. they had no data to go with for this car since it was all new. it took ferrari a few years to finally get their car right, and now they just keep adjusting and tinkering with it to make it just that much better.

    it's a demo. so guess what the details are.
    20% Tint
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