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  1. #1
    Grumpy
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    SGS inspections.

    A warning to all. Just had an unpleasant experiance with a vehicle being purchased long distance through E-bay. Thought I did everything right. First got a Carfax report. Second, ordered an independent inspection through E-bay's "partner" SGS Automotive. Supposed to be a 150 point inspection. Cost was $99.95. Provided SGS with the E-bay item number. The vehicle was represented as having power seats and cruise control. Got the SGS report that verified those options being present. Successfully bid and spent $1200 on shipping. After arrival the personal inspection revealed the lack of power seats and cruise control. The options would run $995 and $475 on a new vehicle. Made a claim with SGS who had the vehicle inspected after delivery the second time. Second inspection verified the lack of the two options. However, SGS took the position that their "terms and conditions" (which can only be found after PayPal charges your account the $99.95 and by then connecting to a separate link) limits their liability to the fee charged, i.e. $99.95 even though have suffered a $1470 loss. Lesson-don't buy long distance from a private seller without a personal inspection.


  2. #2
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    Inner Circle ©207 since: May 05, 2000 charlie has a spectacular aura about charlie has a spectacular aura about charlie has a spectacular aura about charlie's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing. Sorry you had the problem

    I tell you, if I had a nickel for everytime somebody was somehow scammed while doing business w/ either PayPal or eBay. I would be filthy rich. We get many many emails every month telling us about similar problems.

    Please continue to post misfortunes here. Hopefully we can provide a service to our fellow car enthusiasts and limit how much we all get burned by the PayPals and eBays of the world.

  3. #3
    jim
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    don't blame ebay or paypal

    charlie,

    don't blame ebay or paypal for "scamming" anyone. it is impossible for ebay to scam anyone, as they do not buy, sell, or represent the veracity of any item. they are merely an advertising board. blaming ebay is like blaming your newspaper when you get stung buying a car you found via the classifieds. and, blaming paypal is like blaming your bank when you make a bad stock market investment.

    any buyer should be aware of the problems inherent in purchasing something sight-unseen. for the most part, sellers are honest. those that are not are often easy to spot via feedback reports, or by what they fail to say in their listings. buyers must be suspicious by nature in order not to be taken. ask lots of questions, and listen to "how" the person answers. if they are vague, there is a reason. if they say something is in "good" condition, ask them why they don't think it is "excellent". If an item is represented as having "a few dings and scratches", insist on pics of all dings and scratches, and written description regarding size, depth, etc. unfortunately, when a seller outright lies about something, as in the original complainants letter, there is little you can do if you are not able to personally inspect the item.

    your response, charlie, should have attacked SGS for their failures, not ebay or paypal.

    jim

  4. #4
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    Not exactly true... I got scammed BY Paypal

    I used their "Buyer Protection" option on an order of memory foam that I bought from a new seller on eBay. It cost me $11 for the protection, but guaranteed me that I'd get my money back, or that they'd work to protect me and recover/refund my money if the transaction wasn't to my satisfaction.

    So, I paid the fee. After about 3 weeks, the foam hadn't arrived. I contacted the seller, she sent it to the wrong address. FedEx couldn't find it, because they delivered it to a building that didn't exist, so it got returned somewhere and was officially lost in their system.

    PayPal contacted the seller, told them that I was requesting a refund through their buyer protection program. She gave them the tracking number THAT CLEARLY SHOWED THE ITEM WAS NEVER DELIVERED, and Paypal wrote me to say the case was closed, as the seller made a good faith effort to deliver the item, and that she even had a tracking number and everything.

    I went around-and-around with PayPal for weeks. Never got a dime of my money back. I finally gave up and filed a claim with FedEx, who (surprise, surprise) didn't help either.

    So... yes, Paypal has scammed people.


    But... the biggest atrocity is that Paypal doesn't do a darn thing to help people who've been scammed by thieves who take money for items that don't exist and then "disappear." The thieves have to provide legitimate info to Paypal, otherwise they couldn't get their money out of the system. Yet we have hundreds of complaint e-mails from people who've been ripped off by someone through PayPal, and PayPal does nothing... so they turn to us, begging for help, and there's nothing we can do...
    -Steve

    <a href = "http://www.gurureports.org" target = "_blank"><font face = "verdan"a color = "red" size = "2"><b>GURU REPORTS:</b></font></a> <i>Unbiased, independent, practical testing and evaluation of car care products.</i>

    <img src="http://members.roadfly.com/steve/mouse_sig.jpg" border=0>

  5. #5
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    Be very careful w/ PayPal and eBay

    I don't want to get into a long discussion about here but I don't want people to have false security when dealing w/ PayPal or via eBay. PayPal offers nearly know protection whatsoever. In many cases you can lose money when someone pays you via a credit card (other than American Express) when paying through PayPal. Search PayPal problems on Google and you find plenty of horror stories about PayPal. As far as eBay goes there problems are world known. Scammers, liars, etc. are all over eBay. You are right... buyer beware. Based on my experience running Roadfly as well as my own personal experiences on eBay I would say that rougly 10% of all eBay transactions involve some sort of fraud or misrepresentation. Just my two cents. I do get a little tired of hearing about all the problems people have dealing w/ PayPal and eBay.

  6. #6
    Grumpy
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    A follow up.

    First of all SGS was recommended by Ebay as a "to do" thing when buying a car over the internet. SGS is a "partner" of Ebay. While promoting its "partnership" when I complained to Ebay they said my only remedy was through SGS which turned out to be no remedy at all. SGS wouldn't even turn over a copy of its second inspection. To dispute the SGS would require arbitration and an initial $500 fee to initiate. Cost prohibitive.
    Then went through all of the Ebay protections; first the mediation which had no teeth in it at all and only received a nomimal payment for "good will" and not posting a negative feedback.
    Then went through the Ebay Buyer Protection/Fraud program and provided all of the information they required. Even had to get a third independent inspection. End result was a finding that the item was not "substantially" different from what was advertized. I think $1470 on a $31,000 purchase is substantial. The remedy to dispute their finding is to mediate in San Fransico. Can't get to the Square Trade remedy because it requires a position finding from the Ebay Fraud program.
    End impressions-don't buy a car over the internet unless you personaly inspect it. Every step you take other than personal inspection is without a meaningful remedy and the way the programs are designed are to frustrate the claimant and discourage anything other than a class lawsuit.

  7. #7
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    Revenge on PayPal or Ebay

    Small Claims court is your friend.
    Corporations MUST be represented by an attorney,
    think of the cost !
    In some places, you have subpoena power, so
    subpoena PayPal's records re the identity and
    accounts of the rip-off artist.
    In Small Claims, the rules of evidence are very lax,
    which helps the plaintiff a lot.
    BTW, not disclosing T&C until after the charges is
    blatent fraud, IMHO.
    If enough people do this, PayPal will straighten up or
    go bankrupt paying attys to fly to Podunk, MO.

    L'Supreemo
    Head of the Upper East Side Locos,
    the Kinder, Gentler Gang

  8. #8
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    Re: SGS inspections.

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  9. #9
    Donna
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    PayPal scamming consumers and rampant abuse

    PayPal is the biggest scam in the US. They want consumers to believe that their purchases are protected, but the truth is: PayPal is a dishonest business. I will not order online anymore if I have to deal with PayPal, it is not worth the hassle. If there is a problem, PayPal will let you file a dispute, but that is just for show. PayPal offers no protection for buyers and will not return calls, emails, or correspondence. BEWARE OF PAYPAL!

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